Indonesia Indonesian Strategic Industries

[Ravager]

We have MRO rights so Rafale is already a better deal than KFX but it's the techs I'm more concerned whatever we got it's better be worth it introducing a new platform for the AU.

We are talking about the french here . They were even willing to teach the chinese on missille techs and aviation technologies provide the chinese are generous enough in forking money to the baguette's heart contents

 

[Captain Wales]

Buy D5-7 for the SpecOps/police and the Caracal for the army. My suggestion though.

what im afraid if we get caracal, pindad position here would "ngerakit aja" not really making part of the rifle.

while for komodo, even though they still in the early stages if we give them enough money and time to develop, i think they would deliver and with more local content than pindad/caracal could offer.

but still its the army choice, they not really care who made the gun as long the gun meet their specs and preference. so not much i can say here.

for police they already set their eyes on SIG MCX .
maybe try D5/D7 for bakamla and D7 as TNI DMR.

 

[Indos]

We have MRO rights so Rafale is already a better deal than KFX but it's the techs I'm more concerned whatever we got it's better be worth it introducing a new platform for the AU.

That is just for maintenance, no big deal, why you think Indonesia doesnt get MRO right for KFX / IFX ?

 

[reashot_xigwin]

That is just for maintenance, no big deal, why you think Indonesia doesnt get MRO right for KFX / IFX ?

MRO stands for Maintenance, Repair and Overhaul. To do that you usually have to have to access to certain technology especially key one to do your own repair on site.

From what I remember is that MRO rights for the KFX was one of the main sticking point of the negotiations because Korea doesn't trust us with the techs.

 

[Madokafc]

I am always said, the involvement of Indonesia in this project is quite messed up and the fanboys here doesn't have much knowledge of the Crux of problem. How can KAI can give rights for MRO of the KFX engine as they (the Korean) are imported them directly from US of A or license assembly them itself by different companies in South Korea? If you want to get the MRO capability of the engine you should negotiate them with US of A, and that's came into how many chips you can offer them into the Table. The same thing is apply for other critical elements of this project.

That's why many asking what is the fuck PT DI engineer designing in this program when there is many upper Brass people who review this project knitting their brows deeply at what level our involvement in the projects. And that's why the only viable option for Indonesia to get out of the mess is by increasing ourselves proficiency, knowledge and at Fighter Development level technology by acquire many concession from foreign purchase especially critical technology from US of A.

 

[trishna_amrta]

fanboys here doesn't have much knowledge of the Crux of problem.

Its fanboy (singular)

 

[trishna_amrta]

Got an open question here.

Can anyone here provide a list of what local companies who assemble / build industrial grade drone, be that multi rotor or fixed wing drone?
As much as I envy the spec of DJI Matrice 300RTK, the price tag could go beyond US$10k If there is any local builder who build an industrial grade drone with similar capability (payload capacity & flight endurance) I might get a far better price tag.

Thanks Beforehand

 

[Indos]

MRO stands for Maintenance, Repair and Overhaul. To do that you usually have to have to access to certain technology especially key one to do your own repair on site.

From what I remember is that MRO rights for the KFX was one of the main sticking point of the negotiations because Korea doesn't trust us with the techs.

No one who said Rafale offer MRO right, they just inspect PT Nusantara Turbin which is a subsidiary of PTDI

It is also natural for this company to have hight collaboration with either GE or Hanwa as PTDI will directly buy engine from them for KFX/IFX program. Same like what happen with GE engine used in CN 235.

Nope. Some TOT comes directly from US approval on KFX program and in order to get it there should be security protection that Indonesia gov should do.

Look in KFX program DI will get 1 prototype that basically will be the basis for mastering not only design expertise but also other like avionics where LEN and InfoGlobal can come. Not mentioning testing what they have designed since 2011 in real flight, not only in wind tunnel. There will be huge knowledge that can be taken from this.

While if you buys Rafale, they will not let PTDI to do so, the plane will only intended for Air Force. No place for PTDI to make an experiment and include other company like LEN and InfoGlobal to study and learn. The engine can also some sorth of study.

It is different with TOT on maintenance like that.

 

[Umigami]

No one who said Rafale offer MRO right, they just inspect PT Nusantara Turbin which is a subsidiary of PTDI

It is also natural for this company to have hight collaboration with either GE or Hanwa as PTDI will directly buy engine from them for KFX/IFX program. Same like what happen with GE engine used in CN 235.

Nope. Some TOT comes directly from US approval on KFX program and in order to get it there should be security protection that Indonesia gov should do.

Look in KFX program DI will get 1 prototype that basically will be the basis for mastering not only design expertise but also other like avionics where LEN and InfoGlobal can come. Not mentioning testing what they have designed since 2011 in real flight, not only in wind tunnel. There will be huge knowledge that can be taken from this.

While if you buys Rafale, they will not let PTDI to do so, the plane will only intended for Air Force. No place for PTDI to make an experiment and include other company like LEN and InfoGlobal to study and learn. The engine can also some sorth of study.

It is different with TOT on maintenance like that.

They can't if renegotiation fail.

 

[Philip the Arab]

I wonder if there will be more cooperation between Indonesian SOE and Edge group in the future. Good ole South Africans are doing a lot over there.

 

[Var Dracon]

Pindad new excavator, excava 80 amphibious, during testing in Bandung. It is a 8-ton excavator with 4-cylinder engine.

Pindad aims and objectives revealed in Abraham Mose exclusive interview by Indotelko:

1. Produce more equipment in industrial sector (excavator, farming machinery).
2. Plan to produce military truck for soldier mobility (up to 1000) since Perkasa has gone bankrupt.
3. Having an engine plant, so that Indonesia wouldn't need to import engine. He mention the name "Garuda" for the engine. But this seems like final goal though (maybe not in near future, but let's see).
4. Aims that the revenue of Pindad is 50:50 (military:industry sector). The current is 70:30. This does not mean the military sector is declining, but it is the industrial sector that would rise.
5. The industrial sector would partake in agriculture, forestry, construction, new land clearing, toll roads, infrastructure, and others.
6. Pindad is seeking new area for a new manufacturing plants: One for light military vehicle, one for heavy machinery.
7. Pindad aims to produce vehicle transporter, mover machinery, bridge used by the TNI to cross a river, agricultural tools, palm picking, land processing equipment, which in the present Indonesia still imported from China, Korea, etc.
8. Upgrading the ammunition production facility to make 1 million rounds/year (currently 300.000 rounds/year)
9. Modernizing the equipment for automatization, to improve production speed, precision, and suppress the failure rate (some machinery of Pindad is 100, even 200 years old).

Membedah strategi Pindad tetap hebat di masa Pandemi | Indotelko

Kemampuan Pindad untuk beradaptasi dengan tantangan Covid-19 tak bisa dilepas dari tangan dingin Abraham Mose

www.indotelko.com

 

[trishna_amrta]

I wonder if there will be more cooperation between Indonesian SOE and Edge group in the future. Good ole South Africans are doing a lot over there.

Doubtful

 

[Ravager]

Pindad new excavator, excava 80 amphibious, during testing in Bandung. It is a 8-ton excavator with 4-cylinder engine.

View attachment 16189
View attachment 16190


Pindad aims and objectives revealed in Abraham Mose exclusive interview by Indotelko:

1. Produce more equipment in industrial sector (excavator, farming machinery).
2. Plan to produce military truck for soldier mobility (up to 1000) since Perkasa has gone bankrupt.
3. Having an engine plant, so that Indonesia wouldn't need to import engine. He mention the name "Garuda" for the engine. But this seems like final goal though (maybe not in near future, but let's see).
4. Aims that the revenue of Pindad is 50:50 (military:industry sector). The current is 70:30. This does not mean the military sector is declining, but it is the industrial sector that would rise.
5. The industrial sector would partake in agriculture, forestry, construction, new land clearing, toll roads, infrastructure, and others.
6. Pindad is seeking new area for a new manufacturing plants: One for light military vehicle, one for heavy machinery.
7. Pindad aims to produce vehicle transporter, mover machinery, bridge used by the TNI to cross a river, agricultural tools, palm picking, land processing equipment, which in the present Indonesia still imported from China, Korea, etc.
8. Upgrading the ammunition production facility to make 1 million rounds/year (currently 300.000 rounds/year)
9. Modernizing the equipment for automatization, to improve production speed, precision, and suppress the failure rate (some machinery of Pindad is 100, even 200 years old).

Membedah strategi Pindad tetap hebat di masa Pandemi | Indotelko

Kemampuan Pindad untuk beradaptasi dengan tantangan Covid-19 tak bisa dilepas dari tangan dingin Abraham Mose

www.indotelko.com

Well , my best bet is they were going for long planned but never implemented JV with the Tatras ...
Provided Tatra willing to dip their toes on the muddy water of Indonesia economic pies

 

[Var Dracon]

Review of Esemka Bima 1.3 (rebadged Shineray T30)

Shineray T30 (left)

As can be seen, some face features on Shineray is changed on Esemka


Specs of Esemka Bima 1.3

Shineray T30

Basically, everything that's available in Shineray T30 is also available in Esemka Bima 1.3
Their difference is the drive side, in China it is right-hand side so the driver is at the left, in Indonesia it is left-hand side so driver is on the right

Shineray T30 interior

Esemka Bima 1.3 interior

Engine:
Shineray T30 uses 4 cylinder, Euro V 1298 cc engine, 85 hp and 105 Nm.
Bima 1.3 uses 4 cylinder, 1300 cc 84 hp and 105 Nm (I think both are actually the same engine)

The engine seems to be a direct import from China, as Indonesia lost the ability to produce engine back in 2004 (after Texmaco is deliberately bankrupted on purpose by Megawati and her friends).
Overall construction, T30 is more polished than Bima 1.3


Website information of Shineray:

T30/T32-SHINERAY

SHINERAY

www.shineray.com

 

[schuimpjes]

Review of Esemka Bima 1.3 (rebadged Shineray T30)

Shineray T30 (left)
View attachment 16258
As can be seen, some face features on Shineray is changed on Esemka


Specs of Esemka Bima 1.3
View attachment 16252

Shineray T30
View attachment 16253

Basically, everything that's available in Shineray T30 is also available in Esemka Bima 1.3
Their difference is the drive side, in China it is right-hand side so the driver is at the left, in Indonesia it is left-hand side so driver is on the right

Shineray T30 interior
View attachment 16254

Esemka Bima 1.3 interior
View attachment 16256


View attachment 16257

Engine:
Shineray T30 uses 4 cylinder, Euro V 1298 cc engine, 85 hp and 105 Nm.
Bima 1.3 uses 4 cylinder, 1300 cc 84 hp and 105 Nm (I think both are actually the same engine)

Overall construction, T30 is more polished than Bima 1.3


Website information of Shineray:

T30/T32-SHINERAY

SHINERAY

www.shineray.com

Is this Esemka Bima a licensed of that Shineray's pick up or just straight rebadge? If just straight rebadge, this car is a shame, no reason to be proud of it.

 

[Captain Wales]

Is this Esemka Bima a licensed of that Shineray's pick up or just straight rebadge? If just straight rebadge, this car is a shame, no reason to be proud of it.

staright rebadge i think, their factory look like an storage facility than a car factory.
from the image that i see on their website, their factory just a final assembly plant, probably arrive in indonesia in pieces and assembled them in here.
i put a link below, a good debate about esemka

 

[Var Dracon]

This is more in-depth

A worker is interviewed, there are only 220 employees there, 90% is just straight SMK graduate. What the worker do is painting. They said that they don't even make the door, only weld some parts and assemble the already-manufactured parts. The parts came from container, there are chasis, door, rims, etc. The villagers and townspeople around the factory says it is quiet, no sound from machinery as would be expected from a factory.

 

[Ravager]

While the intention are good . Too much politicking and political badgeing by the so called " militant cebong " ruining this endeavour . Even as a jkw supporter i get flabbergasted with the hype buzzer are trying to potray it with ..
Too much hypes and politicking always kill good planing and aspiration .
Just come clean with it will ya' . There is nothing wrong with inadequancies . But , lying for the sake of vanities only kill the efforts while in it's infancy....sigh

 

[Ravager]

Added rant bonus .. gosh , i can't understand with our mercusuar mentality ?? While i do agree all of those were within the realm of our technical capabilities but can't those upper brass realize on how hollow our manufacturing foundation are ?? 76th year of freedom yet we still don't have our own brand of portable fiber welding machinery . And don't even bother talks about the CNC's one ... Even the Basic stick one still we don't have it !! ...
What ?? Krissbow ?? FFS .... They only assembling the separate imported component and put their brand on it . Yet , the govs are brazzenly talk about industry 4.0....

 

[Var Dracon]

Added rant bonus .. gosh , i can't understand with our mercusuar mentality ?? While i do agree all of those were within the realm of our technical capabilities but can't those upper brass realize on how hollow our manufacturing foundation are ?? 76th year of freedom yet we still don't have our own brand of portable fiber welding machinery . And don't even bother talks about the CNC's one ... Even the Basic stick one still we don't have it !! ...
What ?? Krissbow ?? FFS .... They only assembling the separate imported component and put their brand on it . Yet , the govs are brazzenly talk about industry 4.0....

Krissbow is rebranded Chinese product ye