TR Marine Mavi Vatan (Blue Homeland)

Vaggos

Well-known member
Messages
318
Reactions
468
Age
35
Nation of residence
Italy
Nation of origin
Greece
Here are the videos:

So you are telling it is happening? like Greece is not abandoning migrants in middle of the sea or not disabling them and pushing back into Turkish waters?
How does fit into Geneva convention?

EU is a part of Geneva Convention, so does Greece.
There is a 25 sec video showing a turkish costal guard boat harassing a Greek boat and another with the minister of migration & asylum, explaining what happened. It's not our problem if your country wants to get rid of immigrants illegaly.
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,111
Solutions
2
Reactions
95 22,767
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
There is a 25 sec video showing a turkish costal guard boat harassing a Greek boat and another with the minister of migration & asylum, explaining what happened. It's not our problem if your country wants to get rid of immigrants illegaly.
Refugee, not an immigrant.
Definition of immigrant:
a person who has come to a different country in order to live there permanently
Definition of refugee:
a person who has escaped from their own country for political, religious, or economic reasons or because of a war:

So, Those people are willingly getting into the boats wanting to leave Turkey, how much sense does it make sense for Turkish authorities to enforce these people to get on the sea? as claimed by Greece.

And there is a video showing Turkish Coast Guards not harassing, but intervening an "illegal" action.

It is already, objectively clear, it makes no sense to illegally put people on boats and dispatch them, or to organize it as claimed by Greece foreign minister. But which is more "barbarian" even if Turkey has let these people to leave: safely allowing refugees to leave the country, who is at their own will, or disabling their boats, damaing their boats and letting them adrift and push back with sticks? upon seeing them at sea?

There are videos for the latter, where Greece coast guard does such an action.

Acting 3 monkeys does not really help to resolve problems.

So, putting blame on Turkey won't resolve the matter, the fact that there are either people commanded by state to treat refugee boats such by violating Geneva convention, or these people are individually deciding to do such, which in this case Greece should investigate them.
 

Vaggos

Well-known member
Messages
318
Reactions
468
Age
35
Nation of residence
Italy
Nation of origin
Greece
Refugee, not an immigrant.
Definition of immigrant:
a person who has come to a different country in order to live there permanently
Definition of refugee:
a person who has escaped from their own country for political, religious, or economic reasons or because of a war:

So, Those people are willingly getting into the boats wanting to leave Turkey, how much sense does it make sense for Turkish authorities to enforce these people to get on the sea? as claimed by Greece.

And there is a video showing Turkish Coast Guards not harassing, but intervening an "illegal" action.

It is already, objectively clear, it makes no sense to illegally put people on boats and dispatch them, or to organize it as claimed by Greece foreign minister. But which is more "barbarian" even if Turkey has let these people to leave: safely allowing refugees to leave the country, who is at their own will, or disabling their boats, damaing their boats and letting them adrift and push back with sticks? upon seeing them at sea?

There are videos for the latter, where Greece coast guard does such an action.

Acting 3 monkeys does not really help to resolve problems.

So, putting blame on Turkey won't resolve the matter, the fact that there are either people commanded by state to treat refugee boats such by violating Geneva convention, or these people are individually deciding to do such, which in this case Greece should investigate them.
What happened in Thrace borders last year wasn't illegal and brutal?
 

Quasar

Contributor
The Post Deleter
Messages
561
Reactions
34 2,495
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
What happened in Thrace borders last year wasn't illegal and brutal?
the word ''Brutal'' is not enough to explain the stiuation, firing at desperate people including woman and infants who are escaping from a war is bararbaric and simply the definition of a crime against humanity.
 

Vaggos

Well-known member
Messages
318
Reactions
468
Age
35
Nation of residence
Italy
Nation of origin
Greece
the word ''Brutal'' is not enough to explain the stiuation, firing at desperate people including woman and infants who are escaping from a war is bararbaric and simply the definition of a crime against humanity.
First of all, no one fired at the people that were trying to pass through the border. Those poor people were a pawn for your country's political games and failed strategy to threaten the EU.
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,111
Solutions
2
Reactions
95 22,767
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
What happened in Thrace borders last year wasn't illegal and brutal?
Yes it was illegal, refugees wanted to pass to the Greece and faced harsh treatment at the border and couldn't pass, this is pretty illegal and brutal. While i don't think Turkey has any legal reasons to keep refugees from passing the border; there is no point keeping people who doesn't want to stay; they may not have been receiving sufficient help, maybe dissatisfied, thus "they have seeked to pass onto another country".

Again, according to the Geneva convention, refugees should be accepted and those Syrian at the Greece border last year was refugees.
I think those people, Syrian, who has left their country because of the war perfectly fits into refugee status.
But we have seen, again, EU has been reluctant to human rights of refugees when it was violated by an EU member, like Bulgaria for example.
 

Vaggos

Well-known member
Messages
318
Reactions
468
Age
35
Nation of residence
Italy
Nation of origin
Greece
Ooooo please you are living in your tiny fanasy word ,denial of well documented facts does not help you so sory but you can not start any sentence with ''First of all'' all those greeks who fired at those poor people lack any honor and is a disgrace to humanity. The only political game played is by Europe who turned a blind eye to one of the biggest humaniatrian tragedy in resent history.
Unfortunately, there is no evidence of shooting, but even if there were, you have the right to protect your borders from any invasion. This is the policy of the European Union. Greece is not to blame. Personally, I would gladly welcome the refugees from Syria, but not ILLEGAL immigrants from Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan, etc. Turkey has received billions of dollars from the European Union for the refugee crisis and still turns a blind eye to the human smugglers in the Aegean.
 

Costin84

Well-known member
Messages
439
Reactions
560
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Romania
Yes it was illegal, refugees wanted to pass to the Greece and faced harsh treatment at the border and couldn't pass, this is pretty illegal and brutal. While i don't think Turkey has any legal reasons to keep refugees from passing the border; there is no point keeping people who doesn't want to stay; they may not have been receiving sufficient help, maybe dissatisfied, thus "they have seeked to pass onto another country".

Again, according to the Geneva convention, refugees should be accepted and those Syrian at the Greece border last year was refugees.
I think those people, Syrian, who has left their country because of the war perfectly fits into refugee status.
But we have seen, again, EU has been reluctant to human rights of refugees when it was violated by an EU member, like Bulgaria for example.
Last year,those people were ferried in buses to the border by the Turkish state in a pathetic and illegal attempt to blackmail the EU.
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,111
Solutions
2
Reactions
95 22,767
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Because it was an invasion
yes, this the mindset. refugees are invaders?
But not according to the geneva convention, or not according to the human rights.

Do you have any slightest idea how much refugees cost and the money from EU is not making a slight portion of it?
Moreover that agreement was limited to that time with particular promises.
In mean time EU has not kept the promises, thus Turkey, if i remember correctly is not accepting refugees back.
1st EU didnt help to prevent from new tide of refugees, Assad has kept bombing and people kept leaving.
2nd EU has ambargoed when Turkey had to intervene in Syria to create a safe zone and to secure border.
3nd that agreement should have never been made, refugees should have been left in EU and not accepted back at all.
You dont have slightest idea because Syria is not in your border. You would talk totally different if you were at this border and experiencing flows of refugees.
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,111
Solutions
2
Reactions
95 22,767
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Last year,those people were ferried in buses to the border by the Turkish state in a pathetic and illegal attempt to blackmail the EU.
Lol i told before my stance is : Turkey should have not signed that agreement at first place and EU would have to deal with them.

And if refugees want to leave or want to go to a country they should be accepted, not shot.

Moreover, would you like to name countries ,along bulgaria, who had treated refugees who is walking through badly, by harrasing, beating, installing barbed wires at passages and blocking them at the gates, blocking them from entering to their country, hunting them on streets on roads, not providing them any aid when they pass through?

At least i am happy Turkey wasn't among those uncivilized countries.
 

Costin84

Well-known member
Messages
439
Reactions
560
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Romania
Lol i told before my stance is : Turkey should have not signed that agreement at first place and EU would have to deal with them.

And if refugees want to leave or want to go to a country they should be accepted, not shot.

Moreover, would you like to name countries ,along bulgaria, who had treated refugees who is walking through badly, by harrasing, beating, installing barbed wires at passages and blocking them at the gates, blocking them from entering to their country, hunting them on streets on roads, not providing them any aid when they pass through?

At least i am happy Turkey wasn't among those uncivilized countries.

You mean this?


Yes,Turkey was very civilised by beating them and herding them to cross the border...
You accuse Greeks of being uncivilised? Take a good look at this video....there are plenty more out there.
 
Last edited:

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,111
Solutions
2
Reactions
95 22,767
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
You mean this?


Yes,Turkey was very civilised by beating them and herding them to cross the border...
You accuse Greeks of being uncivilised? Take a good look at this video....there are plenty more out there.
If you had slightest idea such a hair is not allowed in police organization or government offices, neither in army, you would know this vidoe is either fake or recorded at somewhere else and these are not "polices"
only title says those people are Turkish police,nothing else. Good disinformation attempt.
Probably asked google and it returned that thanks to the title?

I am not implying Greece is as such, but a better search on google can result in more European countries who were treating refugees badly.

Not from a terrorist rat but from actual newspapers/organizations, pointing out a systematic, state-organized issues:


Anyway who cares because these people are not "privileged", who cares about geneva convention that only applies to non-EU countries.

By the way i am not claiming Turkey does good in human rights, my stance is clear, but Europeans should leave the imagination and face the reality that inhuman treatment of refugees was and still a thing. And not on basis of human rights,but refugees, Turkey is doing better, eventhough Erdogan is politicizing it for domestic and international reasons.
But regardless of him, with a different party in power the result wouldn't be much different,by the fact that it wouldn't have been politicized and refugees would be still assisted.
For example: 90s Turkey has welcomed Iraqi refugees, probably you don't even know.
 
Last edited:

Costin84

Well-known member
Messages
439
Reactions
560
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Romania
If you had slightest idea such a hair is not allowed in police organization or government offices, neither in army, you would know this vidoe is either fake or recorded at somewhere else and these are not "polices"
only title says those people are Turkish police,nothing else. Good disinformation attempt.
Probably asked google and it returned that thanks to the title?

I am not implying Greece is as such, but a better search on google can result in more European countries who were treating refugees badly.

Not from a terrorist rat but from actual newspapers/organizations, pointing out a systematic, state-organized issues:


Anyway who cares because these people are not "privileged", who cares about geneva convention that only applies to non-EU countries.
Most of these people throw away their documents because they're not real refugees and,anyway, coming to Europe is not a right....The EU isn't a global nursing home,it has borders and real citizens to protect. The Internet is full of videos of Turkish soldiers,policemen, gendarmes forcing immigrants to cross into Greece.
 
S

Sinan

Guest
Imo, it was a mistake to open borders for 5 million Syrians.

And today we are arguing about this. Another result of one man show.
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,111
Solutions
2
Reactions
95 22,767
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
The Internet is full of videos of Turkish soldiers,policemen, gendarmes forcing immigrants to cross into Greece.
You are believing this and then you are not believing Greece coast guard is not pushing refugees back, or dangering their life at sea by disabling or sometimes damaging their boats?
This shows you are biased.

"soldier, police, gendarmerie", sure, list whetever you can remember without any basis so it will look more realistic?
How to force people into another country? Those people kept by force at first place wanting to be relocated in EU, once Turkey has announced that the controls are lifted, they have fleed.
Why trying to make up an excuse for not accepting the refugees and treating them bad, by saying those people are forced to leave?

What makes more sense? Refugees are enforced to leave ,or they were kept by force and once freed, they wanted to leave?
I think latter is more reasonable and makes more sense.
Moreover a large portion of people at the border were actually migrants from elsewhere, not Syrian refugees. They have already been using Turkey as a stop en-route to the Europe, so they tried to benefit from a condition. Which again makes "those people were forced" argument.

You don't need to force refugees to leave, if you call out for a thousand you can find them in an hour and transfer to the border right away. They knew eventually they will have better lift standards in richer countries.

.The EU isn't a global nursing home
Read Geneva convention, neither Turkey has to host those refugees if EU is not, read the news back in the past how EU kept going crazy when refugees kept awaited at the border and not accepted into Turkey. Why should Turkey nurse them, why EU at first place in 2013-2014 asked Turkey to accept refugees pointing out human rights?

migrants and refugees differ, i gave the direct meaning in a few messages before. refugees are people who had to leave,forced to leave their own country, migrants are from fairly impoverished countries who aims to have a higher standard of life and leaving with their own will,not enforced by an external factor.

You have to accept refugees, while you have right to deny and sent migrants back.
 
Last edited:

Costin84

Well-known member
Messages
439
Reactions
560
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Romania
@anmdt

Because Turkey is the next country bordering Syria, because someone coming from Syria couldn't possibly be an Afghan who took a detour through a war torn country. Most of the people arriving in Europe aren't even Syrians but economic migrants who threw away their paper gambling on the refugee card....Pakistanis, Afghans and what not. If they were genuine, they would have kept documents.....but they're not.
Poland accepted hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians since 2014, Europe accepted hundreds of thousands of Serbs, Croatians and Bosnians during the 90s.....it didn't offload them to another geographical region.
Erdogan styles himself as a Muslim champion,but he wants to portray this image on our dime.

The story of how Turkey uses migrants for its geopolitical games....I'm using a very leftist, pro migrants source


People beaten, tents burned, humans driven like cattle towards Europe....and somehow the EU should just take it....
 
Last edited:
T

Turko

Guest
@anmdt

Because Turkey is the next country bordering Syria, because someone coming from Syria couldn't possibly be an Afghan who took a detour through a war torn country. Most of the people arriving in Europe aren't even Syrians but economic migrants who threw away their paper gambling on the refugee card....Pakistanis, Afghans and what not. If they were genuine, they would have kept documents.....but they're not.
Poland accepted hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians since 2014, Europe accepted hundreds of thousands of Serbs, Croatians and Bosnians during the 90s.....it didn't offload them to another geographical region.
Erdogan styles himself as a Muslim champion,but he wants to portray this image on our dime.

The story of how Turkey uses migrants for its geopolitical games....I'm using a very leftist, pro migrants source


People beaten, tents burned, humans driven like cattle towards Europe....and somehow the EU should just take it....
Well said, most of asylum seekers are from Afghanistan who pass Iran and lead to EU . So that why should Turkey be hub for illegals?
Why just only Turkey is responsible migrant flow and has to stop migrants?
 

Costin84

Well-known member
Messages
439
Reactions
560
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Romania
Well said, most of asylum seekers are from Afghanistan who pass Iran and lead to EU . So that why should Turkey be hub for illegals?
Why just only Turkey is responsible migrant flow and has to stop migrants?
Why blame Greece if they do it then?
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,111
Solutions
2
Reactions
95 22,767
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Poland accepted hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians since 2014, Europe accepted hundreds of thousands of Serbs, Croatians and Bosnians during the 90s
There was a load share back then, in here we are speaking about 5 millions and people and more, how about then? Would you care to provide numbers?
People beaten, tents burned, humans driven like cattle towards Europe....and somehow the EU should just take it....
Such a misleading title, have you read the news?
It is shown as if the tent was burnt by officials, however it was reported several times the refugees themselves got into fights and burn their tents or camps too.

The investigation has shown how, after leaving the quarantine camps, some people ended up on the streets of Izmir. Others, including children, were put into a detention facility in Ankara. Some of the Syrians have been threatened with deportation to “safe zones” in northern Syria. These people are what remains of Turkey’s “leverage” over the EU. Their stories are just a handful of those who risked and lost much at the European border in March.


After Rima watched her tent burn she was taken to a quarantine camp in Malatya. She estimates that she was one of about 2,300 people bussed more than 1,000km (620 miles) away from the border on the eastern side of Turkey. They had no choice but to go, she says: “[Turkish forces] threatened us with weapons.”

Rima says that there was minimal food provision and medical care in Malatya. They were finally released from quarantine on 16 April and dropped off in the north-eastern Trabzon province. A group of 50, including Rima, who had no money for onward travel were then picked up by local authorities and taken to a detention facility in Ankara 800km away.

So this is actually telling about a covid quarantine beacause of an outbreak at their camps in pazarkule, which they have came "willingly" they dramatize it, should they let to be free despite of the covid risk?


“It’s your president who announced to us that the borders are open, your president! You encouraged us to leave, you were telling us to push on the Greek gate and that it won’t open without pressure,” Rima shouted through the locked door of her room.


So she willingly left konya, where she resides, going to the edirne with her own will to pass border, again not enforced, at covid outbreakshe is taken back to malatya.

Contradictory right, it was telling her tent was burnt as if she was residing in a refugee camp ,but then here it tells she has lost her house because of missing a rent?

One of the perfect disinformation too, it is not telling about status about of refugees but telling refugees who were willingly been to pazarkule to cross the border, when taken back to malatya for covid quarantine they have often resisted not to stay in quarantine.

So she is crying about Turkish Government had to quarantine her because of a covid outbreak in pazarkule kamp.

Ömer Faruk Gergerlioğlu, an MP from the People’s Democratic Party and a member of the Human Rights Commission in Turkey, told the Guardian that refugees at Pazarkule had been used as political pawns."

From this point on the MP who talks is from kurdish party and his words are mainly nonsense but just to criticize, he refrains from telling those refugees have been to edirne by their own will, not force.

This website is cool, which your link of guardian is also takes as a reference in first half, which is telling about quarantine of refugees, not beating or enforcing them to go Greece border,but actually forcing them to leave the camp Greece border to control covid outbreak.

There are 3 chapters about pushbacks of refugees. However they don't seem to, or maybe hesitate to going in depth with interviews because it is linked to EU. Story of a refugee who is taken into a quarantine takes about 3 pages, but refugees pushed back or disabled at sea is mentioned within a single page,

"The pushback campaign organised by Greece has been denounced by MEPs, human rights groups and international law experts. Frontex is “complicit and violating international laws” when it fails to intervene to prevent pushbacks, says international law expert, Dana Schmalz to ARD. Frontex is obliged to rescue asylum seekers whenever they see a boat in distress."

"Frontex is obliged to rescue if pushback fails or boat is in distress"
However, Turkish coast guard has rescued boats in distress several times which was reported by refugees on boat that the boat was put on distress intentionally bu frontex, poking holes, taking their engine away leaving them adrift.

Wonder why the lighthousereports couldn't set up interview with people pushed back or put at danger by frontex to further dramatize it like the story of the refugee in guardian though.*

I don't like biased "interviewers" when they hesitate to go in depth against countries funding them.
They are not actually biased too, they just rather prefer not to disclose it:
We obtained video evidence of Frontex involvement in European and international law violations and gathered and analysed data of Frontex complicity in illegal operations by Greek counterparts.

The data was the evidence that we used to prove what migrants and witnesses on the Greek islands were telling us during field reporting: That Europe’s border agency was fully aware of, and involved in illegal pushbacks.
*So this is like, they have all of it , including interviews, but they don't want to dramatize it like the one in guardian link.
 
Last edited:

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom