France's generals warn Macron 'if you don't prevent growing chaos, civil war will break out'

[Ryder]

7754 members of the military have signed the open letter 3 hours ago compared to 3000 yesterday and 1500 a week ago. I think this is gaining momentum and it is getting more mediatized.

#soutienauxgeneraux (support to the generals) is trending in France.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1387329985279668230

Does the French armed forces have the power to do a coup.

 

[Vergennes]

Does the French armed forces have the power to do a coup.

They can. And if they do it will be successful because the vast majority of the population would support it. No one will go out to defend the current political clique in power. Same goes for the national police,republican guard,gendarmerie.... who would 100% support an hypothetical coup.

The only problem would be the international repercussions and France's credibility and reputation.

For now things will be done peacefully and as the letter is gaining momentum,it will put pressure on the government to do something.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Does the French armed forces have the power to do a coup.

Its the land of revolution and bloodshed. Its not unusual for the French.

 

[Ryder]

Its the land of revolution and bloodshed. Its not unusual for the French.

French Revolution was crazy to be honest we studied that at University especially Robspierre was a maniac.

Not only all of Europe ganged up against France. Reign of Terror was just too much.

What a bloodbath.

 

[Kaptaan]

As @Vergennes will tell you the military has always played a outsized role. Napoleon, De Gaulle were generals. In fact the present republic is only 60 odd years old. The fourth republic was effectively overthrown in what was a military coup of 1958. French Army units led by paratroopers from Algeria landed in Corsica and tok it over by force. This crisis led to collapse of the fourth government and the military brought back Charles De Gaulle to set up a transitional government. Thus was born the present or the fifth republic. So non of this is surprising. Indeed it seems to be tradition in France. The main cause of the choas in 1958 was many of the generals did not want to leave Algeria.

So maybe it's now time for the sixth republic?

 

[Ryder]

As @Vergennes will tell you the military has always played a outsized role. Napoleon, De Gaulle were generals. In fact the present republic is only 60 odd years old. The fourth republic was effectively overthrown in what was a military coup of 1958. French Army units led by paratroopers from Algeria landed in Corsica and tok it over by force. This crisis led to collapse of the fourth government and the military brought back Charles De Gaulle to set up a transitional government. Thus was born the present or the fifth republic. So non of this is surprising. Indeed it seems to be tradition in France. The main cause of the choas in 1958 was many of the generals did not want to leave Algeria.

So maybe it's now time for the sixth republic?

View attachment 19300

It seems some European countries had their fair share of coups.

 

[Kaptaan]

It seems some European countries had their fair share of coups.

In fact even the short lived Vichy France from 1940 to 1942 was led by this dude. And trust me that uniform is not of a school warden. The separation of military from the civilian arm and it's subsidiary role to elected representatives is more Anglo-Saxon tradition. Particulary after the disasterous experiance post Cromwell that certainly has been the case.

 

[Ryder]

In fact even the short lived Vichy France from 1940 to 1942 was led by this dude. And trust me that uniform is not of a school warden. The separation of military from the civilian arm and it's subsidiary role to elected representatives is more Anglo-Saxon tradition. Particulary after the disasterous experiance post Cromwell that certainly has been the case.

View attachment 19301

From a national war hero to being declared a traitor.

You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself as the villain. Petain's life was just that. Pretty tragic to be honest.

 

[Kaptaan]

war

Often on news reports covering French military you see French soldiers of Algerian/Magreb background. Surprisingly between 10% to as high as 20% of French Army is of Muslim extraction. Perhaps @Vergennes can confirm this.

"But that sort of behavior is untenable today due to the Army’s growing Muslim contingent, which represents around 10 to 20 percent of France’s military population."

Full article:

Why French military may be more tolerant of Muslims than French society

Sharp restrictions on religion in the public sphere have heightened tension with the Muslim population. But the armed forces do things a bit differently.

www.csmonitor.com

 

[Ryder]

Often on news reports covering French military you see French soldiers of Algerian/Magreb background. Surprisingly between 10% to as high as 20% of French Army is of Muslim extraction. Perhaps @Vergennes can confirm this.

"But that sort of behavior is untenable today due to the Army’s growing Muslim contingent, which represents around 10 to 20 percent of France’s military population."

Full article:

Why French military may be more tolerant of Muslims than French society

Sharp restrictions on religion in the public sphere have heightened tension with the Muslim population. But the armed forces do things a bit differently.

www.csmonitor.com

Interesting to be honest.

 

[Sinan]

The full letter ;

Mister President,
Ladies and Gentlemen of the Government,
Ladies and Gentlemen,

The hour is serious, France is in peril, several mortal dangers threaten her. We who, even in retirement, remain soldiers of France, cannot, in the current circumstances, remain indifferent to the fate of our beautiful country.

Our tricolor flags are not just a piece of cloth, they symbolize the tradition, down through the ages, of those who, whatever their skin color or faith, have served France and given their lives for it. On these flags we find in gold letters the words "Honor and Fatherland". However, our honor today lies in the denunciation of the disintegration which strikes our homeland.

- Disintegration which, through a certain anti-racism, is displayed with a single goal: to create on our soil unease, even hatred between communities. Today some speak of racialism, indigenousism and decolonial theories, but through these terms it is racial war that these hateful and fanatic supporters want. They despise our country, its traditions, its culture, and want to see it dissolve by taking away its past and its history. Thus they attack, through statues, ancient military and civilian glories by analyzing words that are centuries old.

- Disintegration which, with Islamism and the suburban hordes, leads to the detachment of multiple plots of the nation to transform them into territories subject to dogmas contrary to our constitution. However, every Frenchman, whatever his belief or his non-belief, is at home everywhere in France; there cannot and must not exist any city or district where the laws of the Republic do not apply.

- Disintegration, because hatred takes precedence over brotherhood during demonstrations where the authorities use the police as proxy agents and scapegoats in the face of French people in yellow vests expressing their despair. This while undercover and hooded individuals ransack businesses and threaten these same law enforcement agencies. However, the latter only apply the directives, sometimes contradictory, given by you, the rulers.

The perils are mounting, the violence is increasing day by day. Who would have predicted ten years ago that a professor would one day be beheaded? However, we, servants of the Nation, who have always been ready to put our skin at the end of our engagement - as our military state demanded, cannot be passive spectators in the face of such actions.

It is therefore imperative that those who run our country find the courage to eradicate these dangers. To do this, it is often enough to apply existing laws without weakness. Remember that, like us, a large majority of our fellow citizens are overwhelmed by your dawdling and guilty silences.

As Cardinal Mercier, Primate of Belgium, said: "When prudence is everywhere, courage is nowhere. "So, ladies and gentlemen, enough procrastination, the hour is serious, the work is colossal; do not waste time and know that we are ready to support policies which will take into consideration the safeguard of the nation.

On the other hand, if nothing is done, laxity will continue to spread inexorably in society, ultimately causing an explosion and the intervention of our active comrades in a perilous mission of protecting our civilizational values and safeguarding our compatriots on the national territory.

On the other hand, if nothing is done, laxity will continue to spread inexorably in society, ultimately causing an explosion and the intervention of our active comrades in a perilous mission of protecting our civilizational values and safeguarding our compatriots on the national territory.

As we can see, there is no more time to procrastinate, otherwise, tomorrow the civil war will put an end to this growing chaos, and the deaths, for which you will bear the responsibility, will number in the thousands.

« Pour un retour de l’honneur de nos gouvernants » : 20 généraux appellent Macron à défendre le patriotisme​

"Pour un retour de l'honneur de nos gouvernants" : 20 généraux appellent Macron à défendre le patriotisme

Monsieur le Président,Mesdames, Messieurs du gouvernement,Mesdames, Messieurs les parlementaires,L’heure est grave, la France est en péril, plusieurs dangers mortels la menacent. Nous qui, même à la retraite, restons des soldats...

www.valeursactuelles.com

Mainstream medias remained silent about it. To be honest maybe the military should try a coup.... No one would protest against it I guarantee you that.

Bro, if you were to summarize this letter in simple words.

- What's the concern of generals?
- What's the solution they offer?

 

[Vergennes]

Bro, if you were to summarize this letter in simple words.

- What's the concern of generals?
- What's the solution they offer?

To summarize they are criticizing the government's inaction and softness against those who are trying to divide the nation. The islamists,the racialists,those who want to rewrite our country's history and people of immigrant background who create insecurity in the suburbs. They say our laws are already strong but that our justice system is too soft against all those people and that we don't use the potential of our penal code to strictly condemn criminals,terrorists etc.

I'll tell you an exemple. Few days ago there was a trial about immigrant background youths who in 2016 in Viry-Châtillon attacked police officers who were inside their cars protecting a CCTV that was installed in the area. Dozens and dozens of them came threw molotov in their cars and blocked the doors so they couldn't get out. It was a miracle they weren't dead.

All those "good people" risked life in prison but many received sentences of between 6 years to 18 years. They say criminals don't fear the justice and the police because we are too soft on them.

They say that if the government continues to be soft and does nothing it will need the army to restore order at the cost of thousands and thousands of lives.

As for solutions they just say the government should strictly apply current laws . if the government continues to be soft and does nothing the army will need to restore order at a cost of thousands and thousands of lives. Lot of interpretations in this sentence.

BTW polls showed 40% of French would like to live under a totalitarian regime and 60% would like strong technocrats in power,unelected but strong who would push for needed reforms..

 

[Ryder]

To summarize they are criticizing the government's inaction and softness against those who are trying to divide the nation. The islamists,the racialists,those who want to rewrite our country's history and people of immigrant background who create insecurity in the suburbs. They saw our laws are already strong but that our justice system is too soft against all those people and that we don't use the potential of our penal code to strictly condemn criminals,terrorists etc.

I'll tell you an exemple. Few days ago there was a trial about immigrant background youths who in 2016 in Viry-Châtillon attacked police officers who were inside their cars protecting a CCTV that was installed in the area. Dozens and dozens of them came threw molotov in their cars and blocked the doors so they couldn't get out. It was a miracle they weren't dead.

View attachment 19303
View attachment 19304

All those "good people" risked life in prison but many received sentences of between 6 years to 18 years. They say criminals don't fear the justice and the police because we are too soft on them.

They say that if the government continues to be soft and does nothing it will need the army to restore order at the cost of thousands and thousands of lives.

As for solutions they just say the government should strictly apply current laws . if the government continues to be soft and does nothing the army will need to restore order at a cost of thousands and thousands of lives. Lot of interpretations in this sentence.

BTW polls showed 40% of French would like to live under a totalitarian regime and 60% would like strong technocrats in power,unelected but strong who would push for needed reforms..

I seen posts of Chechen and Kurdish gangs clashing in the streets of France.

I remember last year the clashes between Chechen and Algerian gangs in the streets of Paris. When the cops came the gangs teamed up with each other against law enforcement.

 

[Vergennes]

I seen posts of Chechen and Kurdish gangs clashing in the streets of France.

I remember last year the clashes between Chechen and Algerian gangs in the streets of Paris. When the cops came the gangs teamed up with each other against law enforcement.

Chechen and Kurdish gangs were clashing in Liège Belgium recently,I think you are referring to that event...

As for Chechen and Arab gangs they were clashing in the streets of Dijon and not Paris. The police let them fight each others but when they sent in the special forces everyone ran away. To be honest I would let them slaughter each others for all I care.

 

[Sinan]

To summarize they are criticizing the government's inaction and softness against those who are trying to divide the nation. The islamists,the racialists,those who want to rewrite our country's history and people of immigrant background who create insecurity in the suburbs. They saw our laws are already strong but that our justice system is too soft against all those people and that we don't use the potential of our penal code to strictly condemn criminals,terrorists etc.

I'll tell you an exemple. Few days ago there was a trial about immigrant background youths who in 2016 in Viry-Châtillon attacked police officers who were inside their cars protecting a CCTV that was installed in the area. Dozens and dozens of them came threw molotov in their cars and blocked the doors so they couldn't get out. It was a miracle they weren't dead.

View attachment 19303
View attachment 19304

All those "good people" risked life in prison but many received sentences of between 6 years to 18 years. They say criminals don't fear the justice and the police because we are too soft on them.

They say that if the government continues to be soft and does nothing it will need the army to restore order at the cost of thousands and thousands of lives.

As for solutions they just say the government should strictly apply current laws . if the government continues to be soft and does nothing the army will need to restore order at a cost of thousands and thousands of lives. Lot of interpretations in this sentence.

BTW polls showed 40% of French would like to live under a totalitarian regime and 60% would like strong technocrats in power,unelected but strong who would push for needed reforms..

Hard situation to deal with. Be too soft, it plays out like this. Be too hard and it goes to "Bleack lives matter"... best wishes to France.

------------------------------------------------------
Bro, i wanna ask another question.

My fav politician Ali Babacan said; The first 90 days of a newly elected administration is very important. You just won an election and there is still a hype. So, you can pass reforms without fearing backlash from the public. If you wait more there would be resistance to your reforms. Macron didn't planned this before hand and wasted his first year without making any meaning full reforms. Than, it was to late for the reforms hence he hugged populism.

What do you think on his observation?

 

[Ryder]

Chechen and Kurdish gangs were clashing in Liège Belgium recently,I think you are referring to that event...

As for Chechen and Arab gangs they were clashing in the streets of Dijon and not Paris. The police let them fight each others but when they sent in the special forces everyone ran away. To be honest I would let them slaughter each others for all I care.

Yes it was Belgium. The clash between Chechens and Algerians was in Djion i really thought it was Paris lmaoo

Yeah they all fled once the special forces came in. So much for being a gangsta

 

[Null/Void]

Often on news reports covering French military you see French soldiers of Algerian/Magreb background. Surprisingly between 10% to as high as 20% of French Army is of Muslim extraction. Perhaps @Vergennes can confirm this.

"But that sort of behavior is untenable today due to the Army’s growing Muslim contingent, which represents around 10 to 20 percent of France’s military population."

Full article:

Why French military may be more tolerant of Muslims than French society

Sharp restrictions on religion in the public sphere have heightened tension with the Muslim population. But the armed forces do things a bit differently.

www.csmonitor.com

A few years back some French Solider of Morrocan or Tunisian extraction was killed by one of his ethnic kin for being in the French Army

 

[Null/Void]

In fact even the short lived Vichy France from 1940 to 1942 was led by this dude. And trust me that uniform is not of a school warden. The separation of military from the civilian arm and it's subsidiary role to elected representatives is more Anglo-Saxon tradition. Particulary after the disasterous experiance post Cromwell that certainly has been the case.

View attachment 19301

Where do you think the term "coup d'etat" came from it certainlly did not originate from some third world country imao

 

[Vergennes]

Hard situation to deal with. Be too soft, it plays out like this. Be too hard and it goes to "Bleack lives matter"... best wishes to France.

------------------------------------------------------
Bro, i wanna ask another question.

My fav politician Ali Babacan said; The first 90 days of a newly elected administration is very important. You just won an election and there is still a hype. So, you can pass reforms without fearing backlash from the public. If you wait more there would be resistance to your reforms. Macron didn't planned this before hand and wasted his first year without making any meaning full reforms. Than, it was to late for the reforms hence he hugged populism.

What do you think on his observation?

He is 100% right. Macron before being elected planned to be fast and introduce all critical reforms in the first year of his term but wasted so much precious time. BTW,the problem is also France's system of adoption of law and reforms is very slow,there's an average of 13 months between the proposition of the bill,to the debate in parliament to the final vote.

You can bypass all this but many will see it as an "attack on democracy and on parliamentary debate". Macron planned to make a reform to fasten this but it didn't happen....

But to be honest he did much more compared to the likes of Chirac,Sarkozy and Hollande.

A few years back some French Solider of Morrocan or Tunisian extraction was killed by one of his ethnic kin for being in the French Army

Any sources or info ont this ?

 

[Null/Void]

He is 100% right. Macron before being elected planned to be fast and introduce all critical reforms in the first year of his term but wasted so much precious time. BTW,the problem is also France's system of adoption of law and reforms is very slow,there's an average of 13 months between the proposition of the bill,to the debate in parliament to the final vote.

You can bypass all this but many will see it as an "attack on democracy and on parliamentary debate". Macron planned to make a reform to fasten this but it didn't happen....

But to be honest he did much more compared to the likes of Chirac,Sarkozy and Hollande.



Any sources or info ont this ?

Mother Of Slain French Soldier Fights Against Radicalization

After her son was killed in a 2012 Islamist attack, Latifa Ibn Ziaten vowed to prevent radicalization among her fellow Muslims. "I'm going to save others so they won't suffer like me," she says.

www.npr.org

@Vergennes