Turkish FAC-FIC Designs

[Saithan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1362643736711299074

48 m OPB out of composit.

 

[Glass🚬]

Found these on the online catalogue of IDEF, very interesting stuff https://forms.tuyap.online/Exhibitors/Products.php?Urun=73234

@Cabatli_53 about time to open up an IDEF thread?

 

[Khagan1923]

FAC 46

 

[Khagan1923]

OPV 76 (This one I like, especially being able to equip it with 2x4 VLS Cells (32x G40 in the future). I think these would be a nice Burak-Class replacement.


No idea if the Navy would go for it though.

 

[Khagan1923]

Another FAC design (FAC65) this time even equipped with 2x4 VLS Cells. @UkroTurk 🚬 should like this one.

 

[Turko]

Another FAC design (FAC65) this time even equipped with 2x4 VLS Cells. @UkroTurk 🚬 should like this one.

View attachment 18454 View attachment 18455

Who could resist in front of this beauty?
You might know , my problem is with 16 YTKBS which we already have at hands. Show me the YTKB pictures with Midrange AShMs and SAM/CIWSs.
3-4 Fast Attack Crafts don't bother me

 

[Philips]

Interesting upgrade concept for the Yildiz class FAC:

Hava Savunma Hücumbotu konsepti: Yıldız sınıfı hücumbot modernizasyonu

Başta insansızlaşma olmak üzere dünya denizlerindeki değişimler deniz platformlarında yenilikçi bakışı gerektiriyor.

www.defenceturk.net

 

[Ecderha]

Interesting upgrade concept for the Yildiz class FAC:

Hava Savunma Hücumbotu konsepti: Yıldız sınıfı hücumbot modernizasyonu

Başta insansızlaşma olmak üzere dünya denizlerindeki değişimler deniz platformlarında yenilikçi bakışı gerektiriyor.

www.defenceturk.net

When you develop and produce OWN product you can put them Whenever and Wherever you want.
Like above concept. Boot speed and agilty will decrease, but importent is that option may available for Turkish Navy

 

[Anmdt]

Interesting upgrade concept for the Yildiz class FAC:

Hava Savunma Hücumbotu konsepti: Yıldız sınıfı hücumbot modernizasyonu

Başta insansızlaşma olmak üzere dünya denizlerindeki değişimler deniz platformlarında yenilikçi bakışı gerektiriyor.

www.defenceturk.net

I have a sense Turkish Navy will go for a true FAC lighter than FAC-55 to replace certain classes. While FAC-55 will remain to be something else like big brother of the FACs and USVs.
And this class may be upgraded without the SAM in illustration and MKEK's gun, but with 12 MRAShM, a stealth cuppola (what purpose would it serve without any stealth features on the upper structure i am not sure) and ESM/ECM suite to remain as mixed FAC/Patrol boat

 

[Philips]

I have a sense Turkish Navy will go for a true FAC lighter than FAC-55 to replace certain classes. While FAC-55 will remain to be something else like big brother of the FACs and USVs.
And this class may be upgraded without the SAM in illustration and MKEK's gun, but with 12 MRAShM, a stealth cuppola (what purpose would it serve without any stealth features on the upper structure i am not sure) and ESM/ECM suite to remain as mixed FAC/Patrol boat

Yes, I believe so too. The FAC-55 seems large enough to go into the openwaters of the East-Med. The current FAC's are good enough for the Aegean but not so much for the open waters.

 

[Anmdt]

Yes, I believe so too. The FAC-55 seems large enough to go into the openwaters of the East-Med. The current FAC's are good enough for the Aegean but not so much for the openwaters.

Large enough? Last time i saw her it got even fatter, but anyway

 

[Spook]

I have a sense Turkish Navy will go for a true FAC lighter than FAC-55 to replace certain classes. While FAC-55 will remain to be something else like big brother of the FACs and USVs.
And this class may be upgraded without the SAM in illustration and MKEK's gun, but with 12 MRAShM, a stealth cuppola (what purpose would it serve without any stealth features on the upper structure i am not sure) and ESM/ECM suite to remain as mixed FAC/Patrol boat

Lighter FAC/FIC that would be harder to differentiate with USVs would be nice.

 

[Kaan Azman]

About Yıldız
1-The concept was originally made with 16 HİSAR launchers but it was cut in half because of stability issues already present with the current Yıldız.
2-This is rather meant to accompany another FAC and provide limited air defense, keeping threats like helicopters and some old generation cruise missiles at bay before they come into a range where they start to get threatening
3-Its MRAShMs are likely to keep or even increase lethality in Agean sea where missile range might not matter after some point.
4-MKEK 76mm is rather about making logistics and integration of upgrades easier. There are already some footsteps of new 76mm ammo types coming up and you can guess the rest.

 

[Turko]

I have a sense Turkish Navy will go for a true FAC lighter than FAC-55 to replace certain classes. While FAC-55 will remain to be something else like big brother of the FACs and USVs.
And this class may be upgraded without the SAM in illustration and MKEK's gun, but with 12 MRAShM, a stealth cuppola (what purpose would it serve without any stealth features on the upper structure i am not sure) and ESM/ECM suite to remain as mixed FAC/Patrol boat

Did you imply light fast attack crafts like PLAN type 22 which weight just 220 tons thanks to aluminium material? I always wonder if Catamaran design has future in Turkish Navy?

Or TheSkjold design is a surface effect craft, constructed of glass fibre/carbon composite materials?

Skjold class is my favorite because it has stealth capabilities, anechoic coatings of radar absorbent materials (RAM) have been used in the load-bearing structures over large areas of the ship.

 

[Anmdt]

Interesting upgrade concept for the Yildiz class FAC:

Hava Savunma Hücumbotu konsepti: Yıldız sınıfı hücumbot modernizasyonu

Başta insansızlaşma olmak üzere dünya denizlerindeki değişimler deniz platformlarında yenilikçi bakışı gerektiriyor.

www.defenceturk.net

A few more note since i didn't have time earlier:

--installation with exhaust and in MK56 like VLS form only complicates the design and creates a perfect flat surface which AShMs can easily engage on.

instead of a VLS like integration, as an interim solution the following solution can be adapted:

--Between of two structures which missiles are installed on, a multi-purpose missile bay with oblique surfaces attaching to the board can be created to store missiles horizontally, thus managing Vertical Center of gravity while the vessel is on the go. Hisar-O is about 4.5+ meters with canister, and vessel is 7.6 meters in width.

--A common land vehicle launcher platform has 6 missiles on both Hisar-O and TRLG 230 / MRAShM, effective length of such a bay is about 8-8.5 meters thus 3 of such launchers can easily be installed, a pop-out mechanism can be used to elevate the launchers in oblique position when they are meant to be used.

-- for allowing Hisar to be launched vertically, exhaust redirection plates can be installed to direct exhaust towards to the sides.

Benefits:
-Common land launcher platforms are used and integrated with hydraulics,
-Stabilitiy, vertical center of gravity is protected in bad weather
-RCS has been managed remarkably
-Flexibility is provided, plug and play any missile you want.

Something like this with more extended application:

 

[Philips]

A few more note since i didn't have time earlier:

--installation with exhaust and in MK56 like VLS form only complicates the design and creates a perfect flat surface which AShMs can easily engage on.

instead of a VLS like integration, as an interim solution the following solution can be adapted:

--Between of two structures which missiles are installed on, a multi-purpose missile bay with oblique surfaces attaching to the board can be created to store missiles horizontally, thus managing Vertical Center of gravity while the vessel is on the go. Hisar-O is about 4.5+ meters with canister, and vessel is 7.6 meters in width.

--A common land vehicle launcher platform has 6 missiles on both Hisar-O and TRLG 230 / MRAShM, effective length of such a bay is about 8-8.5 meters thus 3 of such launchers can easily be installed, a pop-out mechanism can be used to elevate the launchers in oblique position when they are meant to be used.

-- for allowing Hisar to be launched vertically, exhaust redirection plates can be installed to direct exhaust towards to the sides.

Benefits:
-Common land launcher platforms are used and integrated with hydraulics,
-Stabilitiy, vertical center of gravity is protected in bad weather
-RCS has been managed remarkably
-Flexibility is provided, plug and play any missile you want.

Something like this with more extended application:
View attachment 24989

Yes, the Hisar canisters are displayed too large on the images. IRL it will be smaller.

 

[Saithan]

I thought the Hisar canisters looked really wrong with respect to the vessels balance and efficiency.

It also looks very bulky. If it was possible to have missiles like Sakarya type (TRG-122) and size perhaps even T-107 type with IR that could be pretty awesome.

I would imagine that FAC are primarily suppose to be carrying AshM, so loading them with Hisar would imo be counterproductive. it's better to go for SR AD that doesn't take away the vessels main purpose.

If FAC are going to be able to receive target data from ULAQ. Then we could use the ULAQ to send target data for TRG-122 or even TRG-230 (depends on size).

Small and deadly means, small and hard to hit

76mm and Gökdeniz seem a bit oversized, or is it just me ?

 

[Turko]

A few more note since i didn't have time earlier:

--installation with exhaust and in MK56 like VLS form only complicates the design and creates a perfect flat surface which AShMs can easily engage on.

instead of a VLS like integration, as an interim solution the following solution can be adapted:

--Between of two structures which missiles are installed on, a multi-purpose missile bay with oblique surfaces attaching to the board can be created to store missiles horizontally, thus managing Vertical Center of gravity while the vessel is on the go. Hisar-O is about 4.5+ meters with canister, and vessel is 7.6 meters in width.

--A common land vehicle launcher platform has 6 missiles on both Hisar-O and TRLG 230 / MRAShM, effective length of such a bay is about 8-8.5 meters thus 3 of such launchers can easily be installed, a pop-out mechanism can be used to elevate the launchers in oblique position when they are meant to be used.

-- for allowing Hisar to be launched vertically, exhaust redirection plates can be installed to direct exhaust towards to the sides.

Benefits:
-Common land launcher platforms are used and integrated with hydraulics,
-Stabilitiy, vertical center of gravity is protected in bad weather
-RCS has been managed remarkably
-Flexibility is provided, plug and play any missile you want.

Something like this with more extended application:
View attachment 24989

Gökdeniz CIWS and Hisar A combination should be used on old Gabya/ Barbaros frigates.
IMO there is one reasonable solution which is Turkish RIM-116 missiles for FACs.
The Chinese created FL3000N whose length is just 2 meter.
Being 1 Meter shorter than RIM-116, the FL3000N missile system occupİes little space.

For compact naval vessels maximum 6 missiles would be enough . Look French Navy how secure their warships.

Mistral Sadral

 

[Saithan]

Gökdeniz CIWS and Hisar A combination should be used on old Gabya/ Barbaros frigates.
IMO there is one reasonable solution which is Turkish RIM-116 missiles for FACs.
The Chinese created FL3000N whose length is just 2 meter.
Being 1 Meter shorter than RIM-116, the FL3000N missile system occupİes little space.
View attachment 24997
For compact naval vessels maximum 6 missiles would be enough . Look French Navy how secure their warships.
View attachment 24996
Mistral Sadral

Are we producing RIM-116 ?

RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

10 km range doesn't seem like much today.

• Primary function: Surface-to-air missile
• Contractor: Raytheon, Diehl BGT Defence
• Length: 2.79 m (9 ft 2 in)
• Diameter: 127 mm (5.0 in)
• Fin span: 434 mm (1 ft 5.1 in)
• Speed: Mach 2.0+
• Warhead: 11.3 kg (24.9 lb) blast fragmentation
• Launch weight: 73.5 kg (162 lb)
• Range: 10 km (6.2 mi)
• Guidance system: three modes—passive radio frequency/infrared homing, infrared only, or infrared dual-mode enabled (radio frequency and infrared homing)
• Unit cost: $998,000
• Date deployed: 1992

 

[Turko]

Are we producing RIM-116 ?

Not yet but soon we will see it.

10 km range doesn't seem like much today.

We shouldn't expect Air defence frigate role from FACs . Both RAM and FL3000N are best defense systems against cruise missiles since they aren't launched vertically.
Moreover FAC's mere threat is cruise missiles.

UAVs , Fighters and other threats which fly at higher altitudes are the business of air defense frigates and land based long range SAMs.


Remember our ADA-class has just RAM.