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Live Conflict War in Afghanistan
- Thread starter Bogeyman
- Start date
Large number of ATV's are captured by Taliban's
GoatsMilk
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The Taliban is trash, no doubts about it. But its not Turkeys job to bring these savages into the 21st century. Let them remain backward and let them remain open to constantly being invaded by white christian powers who will kill millions of them before leaving. Maybe tomorrow they get the chinese treatment instead. As Turks its not our jobs to support or help these savages.
A rational mind knows that Turkey in Afghanistan is good for Afghanistan and its people, but we are not dealing with rational people. Leave these morons to their fate, constant war, constant poverty and constant turmoil.
A rational mind knows that Turkey in Afghanistan is good for Afghanistan and its people, but we are not dealing with rational people. Leave these morons to their fate, constant war, constant poverty and constant turmoil.
Bosanski Vojnik
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It's sad to see some users supporting the Taliban on this forum
The Taliban organisation consists of many Pashtun Extremist trash who have committed heavy persecution & war crimes (and still continue to commit might I add) against fellow Turkic origin Uzbeks and Hazaras which are another group of mixed Turco-Mongol origin.
Turkey should do all it can to protect Turkic population in Afghanistan
The Taliban organisation consists of many Pashtun Extremist trash who have committed heavy persecution & war crimes (and still continue to commit might I add) against fellow Turkic origin Uzbeks and Hazaras which are another group of mixed Turco-Mongol origin.
Turkey should do all it can to protect Turkic population in Afghanistan
Bosanski Vojnik
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Turkey should Arm General Dostums Uzbek Army and create a safe and prosperous region for Turkic speaking Afghans. They can also use a small military presence to protect Hazaras and create a safe haven for them + education so that they can return to their Turco-Mongol roots and prevent them from being Persianized by Iranian influence.
You feel sad because some of forumer here support the Taliban
because there are a number of Taliban committing war crimes.
Then without feeling guilt,
proceed to support the notorious Kabul Regime war criminals.
I puzzled.
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What I find remarkable is that border crossings on the opposite side of Af-Pak border have fallen to Taliban. This goes against the common refrain that Taliban are merely a auxiliary of the Pakistan ISI. The fact is Taliban listen to nobody and have vast amount of traction within Afghanistan which goes across even ethnic lines. Many of these border districts are not Pashtun who majority is more toward the Pakistan side.
@GoatsMilk There is precious little to separate the Taliban from other warlords. Dostum has a record that would blush Hannibal Lecter. The fundamental reason for Afghanistan's arrested socio-political evolution is geography and history. They have been 'trapped' in mountains and lived out as a buffer betwen Tsarist Russia and the British Empire impervious to the change that was taking place. They are like a lab specimen from medieval ages.
With benefit of hindsight I wish Pakistan had not joined the US led jihad against Soviet Union in 1979. The Soviet Red Army arrived in Kabul in 1979 to save the Saur Revolution which had began under the communist rule of Babrak Karmal in late 1970s.
What was the revolution? It was Ataturk style purge and reformation of primitive Afghan society with a communist recipe. Education, female emancipation, purging tribal leadership and mullahs etc. This worked okay in the big cities like Kabul and soon comrades from Warsaw Pact like Poland, Russia, East Germany etc sent education, construction battalions to build a new socialist paradise in Afghanistan.
However this reformation caused a reaction from the conservative rural tribal leaders and mullahs. Had nobody intervened the Afghan communist party along with it's Warsaw Pact allies would have suppressed the reaction and within a generastion or by 1990s a new Afghan society would have emerged. In line with this 1,000s of Afghan male/female students were sent to Moscow, Berlin, Warsaw etc for education to be vanguard of a new Afghan society. Kabul even saw entire districts rise built by Soviet construction crews of high rise communist style housing.
But somebody did intervene. CIA got involved because it saw the rural yribal leaders and their mullahs as proxy to bleed Soviet Union. Soon Operation Cyclone the largest covert operation in history began. It saw raising of entire armies out of the rural tribal groups called Mujihadeen. Pakistan acted as US surrogate and Saudia Arabia provided dollars and religion.
As the Soviet backed communist regime wobbled the Red Army was sent in to secure the communist party rule. What followed was decade of war that led to Soviet defeat in 1989. So in a sense primitivness was cementified into Afghan society by great power rivalry.
@GoatsMilk There is precious little to separate the Taliban from other warlords. Dostum has a record that would blush Hannibal Lecter. The fundamental reason for Afghanistan's arrested socio-political evolution is geography and history. They have been 'trapped' in mountains and lived out as a buffer betwen Tsarist Russia and the British Empire impervious to the change that was taking place. They are like a lab specimen from medieval ages.
With benefit of hindsight I wish Pakistan had not joined the US led jihad against Soviet Union in 1979. The Soviet Red Army arrived in Kabul in 1979 to save the Saur Revolution which had began under the communist rule of Babrak Karmal in late 1970s.
What was the revolution? It was Ataturk style purge and reformation of primitive Afghan society with a communist recipe. Education, female emancipation, purging tribal leadership and mullahs etc. This worked okay in the big cities like Kabul and soon comrades from Warsaw Pact like Poland, Russia, East Germany etc sent education, construction battalions to build a new socialist paradise in Afghanistan.
However this reformation caused a reaction from the conservative rural tribal leaders and mullahs. Had nobody intervened the Afghan communist party along with it's Warsaw Pact allies would have suppressed the reaction and within a generastion or by 1990s a new Afghan society would have emerged. In line with this 1,000s of Afghan male/female students were sent to Moscow, Berlin, Warsaw etc for education to be vanguard of a new Afghan society. Kabul even saw entire districts rise built by Soviet construction crews of high rise communist style housing.
But somebody did intervene. CIA got involved because it saw the rural yribal leaders and their mullahs as proxy to bleed Soviet Union. Soon Operation Cyclone the largest covert operation in history began. It saw raising of entire armies out of the rural tribal groups called Mujihadeen. Pakistan acted as US surrogate and Saudia Arabia provided dollars and religion.
As the Soviet backed communist regime wobbled the Red Army was sent in to secure the communist party rule. What followed was decade of war that led to Soviet defeat in 1989. So in a sense primitivness was cementified into Afghan society by great power rivalry.
Philips
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I wonder if the Taliban will succeed in creating a workable symbiosis between Islam and modernity. The Iranians tried and failed to a large degree. I expect the Afghans will fail too, not only because of geopolitical interference into their country but also to the inherent irreconcilability between Islam and modernity. But time will tell.
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At a political or national level it is simply impossible. You cannot resolve the contradiction. Islam is a religion and knows no boundaries, knows no geography and is global. This alone is irreconcilable with a modern nation state. Every Islam so called 'republic' is a fraud because it tries to shoehorn a religion within a legal and geographic construct. So for instance a Muslim in Pakistan if he follows Islam ought to show is empathy with other Muslims as opposed to other fellow citizens who might be Christian or athiest. In Pakistan legally citizenship is contingent on the normative definition of nation state. Meaning a Muslim from Saudia will be rejected by the Pakistani state but a Christian Pakistani will be protected by the state. This exposes the sham of the title 'Islam Republic'.
But beyond that the problem is the sharia law is from a era that does not fit into the modern world and any discusson on it will lead to a black hole that will suck you in to the dozen plus interpreations. Thus the only viable way forward is to adopt the Turkish style secularism. Pakistan manages to limp along because what it does is claims 'Islamic Republic' but in practice skirts around it even if like those octopuses that squirt ink to cause confusion. So it is in Pakistan where religion is squirted everywhere but in practice it is neatly avoided from screwing up that state.
But Taliban however noty only talk but will walk the talk. They literally apply sharia that was for for medieval ages. As regards will they evolve yes, I think they will but at snail pace. It will take generation or two.
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Afghanistan before the jihad arrived and under communist rule. 1970s.
kabul 1970s - Google Search
www.google.co.uk
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Clarification: Pakistan badges itself as Islamic but actually most of the country is ran on British era laws. Although mullahs have lot of street power but law making is strictly a parliamentary elective matter. This conveniently means the country talks but does not walk. Taliban on the other hand are entirely informed by the sharia interpreation of their religious leadership.
In Pakistan there are no laws requiring female head covering or any regulation imposimg Islamic dress. It is purely social convention. Furthermore there are no laws limiting the role of women which is why despite it being 'Islamic republic' Pakistan became the first Muslim country to have a elected Prime Minister way back in 1989 - Benezir Bhutto. Taliban follow the sharia and categorically reject that a female can be head of a Islamic state.
In Pakistan there are no laws requiring female head covering or any regulation imposimg Islamic dress. It is purely social convention. Furthermore there are no laws limiting the role of women which is why despite it being 'Islamic republic' Pakistan became the first Muslim country to have a elected Prime Minister way back in 1989 - Benezir Bhutto. Taliban follow the sharia and categorically reject that a female can be head of a Islamic state.
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To give an idea of the degree to which the Taliban are buried in Sharia and Islamic interpreation from middle ages can be seen from 2001. Everybody must know that not a single Afghan was involved in 9/11 attack on New York. They were all Arabs, Saudi's, Egyptians, Lebanese etc. So why did America invade Afghanistan. Surely USA should have bombed Saudia or Egypt? The reason was Bin Laden was hiding in Afghanistan. When USA asked them to hand him over they refused. Pakistan which recognized the Taliban Emirate desperately sent officials to convince the Taliban to hand over OBL and explain that if they did not they would be bombed to hell.
But they refused. The logic or their POV was simple. OBL was a Muslim and had sought refuge in the Islamic Emirate. He had done nothing wrong and they would never hand him as good Muslims. Rest is history. They did get bombed to hell and they have been fighting for two decades since.
All for the love of a Arab ........
But they refused. The logic or their POV was simple. OBL was a Muslim and had sought refuge in the Islamic Emirate. He had done nothing wrong and they would never hand him as good Muslims. Rest is history. They did get bombed to hell and they have been fighting for two decades since.
All for the love of a Arab ........
Turkey should do what ?
Bomb them to hell ?
The mighty US and NATO lost to those "trash" Pashtuns, Pakistan also consist of large Pashtun population.
US and NATO with unrelenting technological superiority, unlimited resources and colossal military might failed in the only thing they came to eradicate.
It would be better to just leave them alone.
And Oh! General Dostum escaped to Turkey a week ago and his birth place (District) is captured by Taliban's.
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Members here must not conflate the Taliban as being anti-Turkic. Pre 2002 and their emirate they gave refuge to any group that was Muslim and nobody else was prepared to give residency. So many East Turkistan groups had the emirates protection despite what China might threaten, or Uzbek Muslim groups, Chechen Muslim fighters despite what Russians might threaten and of course OBL's Al Qaeda despite what USA threatened which of course did bring about their eventual demise. This is exactly why Russia and China are nervous again although Taliban have now promised not to let any trans-national groups refuge. But this is to be seen.
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Are you being serious or just flippant?
