Indonesia Casual Discussion Warkop Indonesia

Lordimperator said:

biggest ally

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Not sure if its the correct term.
Btw how do we view the USA in term of security and military.
Ally? Weapon provider? Partner? Friend? Goons?

For me its security partner.

NEKO said:

Not sure if its the correct term.
Btw how do we view the USA in term of security and military.
Ally? Weapon provider? Partner? Friend? Goons?

For me its security partner.

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Thank you for the correction, security partner and guarantor.

Lordimperator said:

guarantor

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Well I don't think Indonesia need those.
It's more for country like Japan, SoKor etc.

NEKO said:

Well I don't think Indonesia need those.
It's more for country like Japan, SoKor etc.

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To be more precise ....we are an option D ...in case option B and C were get wiped out ...

Gary said:

Our softening to Australia vice versa is just politics, it doesn't hide that these two nations are incompatible with each other and Indonesia, until it can sufficiently arm itself must not make itself overly reliant on one side. This is not the 'bebas aktif' bullshit, this is realpolitik for us, China is bad, and so are the West, the problem is now China is the bigger bad option, that's it.

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Funny, Australian don't think too much of Indonesia unless the people discuss about a cheap holiday destination. Even though Indonesia is a neighbouring country, the public's interest in the country seems to be very low. I can think of only two ocassions that Australian discussed about Indonesia - one was a FMD outbreak in Indonesia in 2023 & the other is the presidential election in Indonesia. However, even elections are rarely discussed in Australia.

Indonesia isn't seen as an existential threat to Australia - China is.

Ravager said:

To be more precise ....we are an option D ...in case option B and C were get wiped out ...

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Do we have option aside from the western when PLAN/ PLAAF strike on Natuna? India, Russia?

Dosirak said:

Funny, Australian don't think too much of Indonesia unless the people discuss about a cheap holiday destination.

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Indonesia doesn't think too much about Australia either, in the last 10 years or so everyone here is like China, China, China all the time

Dosirak said:

Even though Indonesia is a neighbouring country, the public's interest in the country seems to be very low. I can think of only two ocassions that Australian discussed about Indonesia - one was a FMD outbreak in Indonesia in 2023 & the other is the presidential election in Indonesia. However, even elections are rarely discussed in Australia.

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The Indonesian common man is too busy with life to think about what is going on in each of Indonesia's Islands, let alone Australia down South. But it's clear from a geopolitical perspective that two countries are natural threats to each other and it's only the humongous threat from China that makes the two suddenly become cordial again.

Australia, a mainly White country that shares no common interests or similarities with its Asian neighbors is bound to feel threatened if the non-White country surrounding it steps out of the line, becoming rogue or whatever they call it and from our perspective, Australia is like a White man's outpost that is doing Western bidding here.

Dosirak said:

Indonesia isn't seen as an existential threat to Australia - China is.

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Same here as well, so huge is China's military and industrial potential, that everyone suddenly forgets that Indonesia spent the last 60 years almost going to war with Australia in multiple occassion.

Gary said:

Australia, a mainly White country that shares no common interests or similarities with its Asian neighbors is bound to feel threatened if the non-White country surrounding it steps out of the line, becoming rogue or whatever they call it and from our perspective, Australia is like a White man's outpost that is doing Western bidding here.

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Well that has changed over time as Australia experiences a demographic shift. For instance, many (white) Australian don't mind minorities celebrating Lunar New Year in Australia and they gradually accept it as a social norm. Sure, not everyone in here feels comfortable of it, but many (white) Australian have increasingly become accommodating to Asian culture, tradition and custom.

At this point, for Australia, Indonesia is nothing more than a trading partner for businessmen and a holiday destination for average Joe. I have never seen anyone talking up Indonesia as an existential threat as a non-white country in the last 20 years.

I am nearly positive Australian in general don't mind continuing military cooperation with Indonesia, including joint military training & weapon supply as long as both countries share the view that their national security is primarily threatend by China.

Indonesia is a big country with diverse demographics around the territory. I think if eastern part of Indonesia, like Bali, NTT, Northern Sulawesi, Maluku, whole Papua Island become more developed and influential in Indonesian politics, it will counter balance predominantly western part of Indonesia and its values. Indonesia is not just about Island of Java and Sumatra with its own bubbles and fantasies.

That’s why from years ago I’m in the position in favor to strengthen the power of DPD (Senate) in legislation, so they have more power to bargain and decision making is not just about or in favor of bigger population Western Indonesia.

Surakarta. Abu Bakar Ba’asyir and Densus 88 activities now. No Theosophist priyayi activities anymore like before lol. Pipeline to Freemasonry, the Theosophist or Perwathin lost their direction and building from Mangkunegaran VII is not well maintained. Budi Utomo, influenced by ex socialist Annie Besant of Indian National Congress is no more, but we still commemorate it with Indonesian National Awakening Day.

Want to know how close Budi Utomo with Theosophy? Budi Utomo Jogja chapter was housed in local Theosophy Hall.

Dosirak said:

Well that has changed over time as Australia experiences a demographic shift. For instance, many (white) Australian don't mind minorities celebrating Lunar New Year in Australia and they gradually accept it as a social norm. Sure, not everyone in here feels comfortable of it, but many (white) Australian have increasingly become accommodating to Asian culture, tradition and custom.

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I think most of the time it's just a facade, maskirovka whatever you call it. Of course, on the surface, we are past the time when people could openly talk xenophobic issues out loud. But something tells me, that while there's a marked improvement in multi-cultural acceptance, I believe this will not last long. People will eventually identify themselves with people that share the most similarities, be it skin color, language, faith. It's just basic human intuition. Especially when things turned for the worse.

And that's where we go into the politics, as much as IKAHAN's twitter account likes to post feel-good posts about Indo-Australian military partnership, no one should be fooled by what Australia's higher-ups really think. If China's assertiveness which is 7500km away from Canberra could make them itchy and confrontative, there's every reason to think that Australia has an interest to keep another giant closer at home at bay. In the end, Australia is a predominantly white, Christian nation with Liberal values, and Indonesia is a brown, Muslim-majority country that doesn't like Western values at large. There could be no more deepening of relationships other than pragmatic ties.

Dosirak said:

At this point, for Australia, Indonesia is nothing more than a trading partner for businessmen and a holiday destination for average Joe. I have never seen anyone talking up Indonesia as an existential threat as a non-white country in the last 20 years.

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Because Indonesia is punching below its weight and Indonesia has more or less accepted U.S leadership in the region since at least 1965. This must be reversed in the long term of course, but at the moment it is what it is.

If Indonesia decides to let's say massively rearm, China style, becoming more assertive, we will see the West treating us as a rogue state, I don't mind being seen as rogue. There's some sort of honor in that. But (for Indonesians here) never ever think that the West's softening to us is some sort of Indonesia's diplomatic triumph, rather it's a showcase of Indonesia's weak ability to project power.

Dosirak said:

I am nearly positive Australian in general don't mind continuing military cooperation with Indonesia, including joint military training & weapon supply as long as both countries share the view that their national security is primarily threatend by China.

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Same here as well. When it comes to military exercise, The West gets to send their political manouvering to China and Indonesia gets to adopt the latest in Western military tactics to keep up with progress in military science. That's win-win.

Gak ada usaha konfirmasi HOAX dari yg bersangkutan. Jadi nilai sendiri saja.

Umigami said:

Gak ada usaha konfirmasi HOAX dari yg bersangkutan. Jadi nilai sendiri saja.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1752662167575269839

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Ahahahai, pantesan cocok duet sama bossman

Ada logo babcocknya, ga kayak lokal kemarin

Gary said:

IKAHAN

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Not related. Just knew that Thai Navy Special Force was trained at Saipan during the same era of around late 40s or early 50s as Indonesian Department of Defense Intelligence back then during the time Minister Sultan Hamengkubuwono IX.

Morale boost for nationalists back during the Revolutionary Struggle to know that Ngarso Dalem with them. Post war he also still had important positions.

Tefok jidat

Umigami said:

Tefok jidat

Indonesian engineers at KAI probed for alleged tech theft of KF-21 | Yonhap News Agency

By Kim Eun-jung SEOUL, Feb. 2 (Yonhap) -- Indonesian engineers have been under investiga...

en.yna.co.kr

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I really don't like how our govt dealing with them, creating shitshow for the submarine and fighter saga.

If the govt no longer interested to cooperate with them the govt should do it cleanly without causing any mess.

Umigami said:

Tefok jidat

Indonesian engineers at KAI probed for alleged tech theft of KF-21 | Yonhap News Agency

By Kim Eun-jung SEOUL, Feb. 2 (Yonhap) -- Indonesian engineers have been under investiga...

en.yna.co.kr

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IMO ada beberapa skenario dalam kasus ini :
1. Inisiatif dari orang tersebut untuk alasan yang belum diketahui.
2. Tindakan intelijen dari Indonesia untuk mendapat teknologi/setidaknya informasi dari KF-21 (Berhubungan dengan national interest).
3. Merupakan kegiatan intelijen salah satu negara (INA/SK) atau bahkan keduannya sudah tahu, untuk memberikan alasan bagi Indonesia untuk mundur dari proyek.

Kalau memang terbukti mencuri maka hasilnya mungkin ada 2 :
1. Indonesia mundur/ditendang dari project.
2. Kedua negara tetap lanjut dan Korsel cuek demi kepentingan yang lebih luas/politik kedua negara.

Soman45 said:

3. Merupakan kegiatan intelijen salah satu negara (INA/SK) atau bahkan keduannya sudah tahu, untuk memberikan alasan bagi Indonesia untuk mundur dari proyek.

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Deal gimana? Orang bikin nama kita tercoreng!