TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

We only need to make sure we can have an early crop of engines that can satisfy basic requirements while they still fall behind the best quality foreign engines. Like an 80% quality engine will take us to where we need to be in the short term. Can we do this by 2028, I believe we can.

We should also work on more variety in plane design, more of single engine and 3 or 4 engine designs should be worked on. When you have all the components available it would be foolish to not go for more capability.

Anyone who believes that Turkey will potentially acquire F16V or F35, while jewish and greek lobby dominates congress and Trump's brain, then they are delusional

There is an extremely slight possibility for the Typhoons but I always know that the Germans, just like with most defence deals with Turkey, will try to sabotage it in the last minute

Turkey's only option is to continue with the F16 Ozgur program (which according to TAI, makes it equivalent to the Viper variant of the US) and try to get KAAN done somehow

Today Kaner Kurt will asl that question to Ozgor Eksi in his interview about latest development about the f16 ans ef deal.

Zafer said:

Can we do this by 2028, I believe we can.

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Based on what, exactly? An engine that only exist on paper, that relies on technologies we have yet to master in large scale production and one that (naturally, since it doesn't exist) has been through no tests can be installed on our 100 million dollar jets 4 years before the last estimates of the officials?

Seriously, what is the source this claim that has any basis on reality that we are living in right now? How is it possible? What makes it possible?

And what are the legal consequences of not delivering KAANs within 120 months? Will Turkey face financial penalties from Indonesia when we overshoot the deadline? I have searched and haven’t found any detail on that.

Ripley said:

And what are the legal consequences of not delivering KAANs within 120 months? Will Turkey face financial penalties from Indonesia when we overshoot the deadline? I have searched and haven’t found any detail on that.

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Bro guess all we have is a MoU. Not sure but hope we are not crazy to stricktly bind ourselves with legal consequences at this stage... not sure even if it can be possible to do it with a MoU?

Yasar_TR said:

IFF, EW/ECM and local munitions integration can be done very quickly if the sort codes are accessed.

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It took Aselsan a decade to create the Özgür suite. Aselsan had worked on F-16 for 20 years before that. That is a very tall order and EW integration would also be very hard, for starters, noone is opening up the radar to us.

Yasar_TR said:

Extensive maintenance and repair shop system can be set up within a year whilst the team are trained.

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I really doubt that. EF employees will be present in Ankara for years. Unit level maintenance is easy, depot level maintenance will take years.

Yasar_TR said:

Tusas site states that 48 KAAN aircrafts to Indonesia will all be delivered in 120 months after 26July 2025, furnished with locally manufactured engines. Tusas has also stated that the local KAAN engine has to be ready and accepted by 2032 to meet this deadline.

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I still don't think that 120 months have already started.

Sanchez said:

It took Aselsan a decade to create the Özgür suite. Aselsan had worked on F-16 for 20 years before that. That is a very tall order and EW integration would also be very hard, for starters, noone is opening up the radar to us.

I really doubt that. EF employees will be present in Ankara for years. Unit level maintenance is easy, depot level maintenance will take years.


I still don't think that 120 months have already started.

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Bro, EW/ECM will probably not be needed as ECRS-MK2 Aesa radar comes with the latest version of these. But should the need arise having developed similar systems for KAAN will allow us to integrate a version of it to this plane and it shouldn’t really take that long. We don’t need to discover Americas again. This is never going to be an as extensive project as Ozgur 1&2.

Also if source codes are obtained, IFF and munition integration should be done in a doddle.

Short of complete parts manufacturing, a depot level maintenance set up needs to be present if we are buying 80+ planes that will most likely be the backbone of our airforce whilst KAAN numbers are growing in the second part of 2030’s. Otherwise the down time of planes will be high and their combat readiness will be adversely affected.

Having f16 and civilian aircraft maintenance set ups already in place will help make it easier to establish the same for Typhoons. (If I am not mistaken, since THY is becoming the largest user of RR engines, a regional RR engine maintenance centre is being set up in Turkey too. Finding engineers and technicians shouldn’t be a problem).

According Tusas the 120 months have started. Tusaş site clearly states that both parties have signed definitive sales contract. So this is not an MOU and in this case the time has started ticking.

Still waiting to see the same shot over Eskişehir with the correct livery...

maybe a couple for us as well. Depending on the price

We keep making agreements with USA and EU but we never receive any s*it while GR has +60 AESA fighters

Cenkcnk said:

We keep making agreements with USA and EU but we never receive any s*it while GR has +60 AESA fighters

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Hard reality

Cenkcnk said:

We keep making agreements with USA and EU but we never receive any s*it while GR has +60 AESA fighters

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İts not others foult , we have since 2012 with ÖZGÜR project and nothing until now . Now all major projects have been come together to produce from Land projevts like Altay , İFV apc to Navy ones İstanbul class , Tf 2000 , milden and air forve with steath drones , Kaan Özgür . Now with all this projects we will delay alot of them or we gonna crash , economically its impossible , We are not USA or China .
We fucked up with managmemt and production of defence projects we should accept

BalkanTurk90 said:

İts not others foult , we have since 2012 with ÖZGÜR project and nothing until now . Now all major projects have been come together to produce from Land projevts like Altay , İFV apc to Navy ones İstanbul class , Tf 2000 , milden and air forve with steath drones , Kaan Özgür . Now with all this projects we will delay alot of them or we gonna crash , economically its impossible , We are not USA or China .
We fucked up with managmemt and production of defence projects we should accept

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Also a lot of engineers are leaving for countries that will pay them more. Erdoğan is also really pissing off youth for a variety of reasons, so not only is there financial issues but there also may be lack of staff to run all projects at full speed as a lot of quality people are leaving. Not helping at all that in this heated neighborhood, instead if calling for unity Erdoğan has pointed the barrel at the opposition, arrested two major figures and countless others whilst he continues to allow a stream of CIA/MOSSAD assets to leak through the border.

If you think Iran is bad, oh boy. Türkiye is probably infested with countless Afghans and Syrians ready to attack and gather intel for a quick buck from their grandmasters.

Truly a retarded situation, you can thank MOSSAD/CIA backed political Islam for this.

I don't think the Turkish air force has ever been this weak in comparison to its neighbors. It doesn't matter that Türkiye has many benefits in other areas of its military, the failure to maintain supremacy in this period in an immensely dangerous mistake. All of this is due to Erdoğans "mistakes". Miscalculation or treason, you decide.

I'm hoping Kızılelma can be pumped out as soon as possible. Even 20 in the inventory will bring some relief.

I think that people who into defence matters should have some realism.
Turkiye was supposed to have by now 50 to 60 F 35s. USA lied and stole 1,5 bn , no?
France wasn't ever going to sell Rafals to TAF, Sweden also never wanted to sell Gripens, Germans never wanted till recently to sell Typhoons and even now with lots of condensations. Russian and Chinese planes were out of the question. I don't think that Biden was will even to sell F16s to Turkiye.
The only thing that Turkiye could have done is to buy Jf/17 Thunder.
What else is out there???

mehmed beg said:

I think that people who into defence matters should have some realism.
Turkiye was supposed to have by now 50 to 60 F 35s. USA lied and stole 1,5 bn , no?
France wasn't ever going to sell Rafals to TAF, Sweden also never wanted to sell Gripens, Germans never wanted till recently to sell Typhoons and even now with lots of condensations. Russian and Chinese planes were out of the question. I don't think that Biden was will even to sell F16s to Turkiye.
The only thing that Turkiye could have done is to buy Jf/17 Thunder.
What else is out there???

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well jf 17 is a pakistani jet as much as it is a chinese jet engines avionics ect are sourced from china not that we would even consider it.
Technically the status of our airforce is our fault as it is the fault of our (allies). Even if the true reason why we didn't get the f35s was israeli pressure the nail in the coffin was the s400 we basically gave them the bullets to shoot us in the leg and the government knew that the americans made it pretty clear.
I don't blame the french we also wouldn't want to sell equipment to our geopolitical adversary.
The germans are bit different they claim human rights etc but sell stuff to gulf states and israel basic german hypocracy.
And the f16 i don't know if that was on us or the americans after sweden joined nato.

mehmed beg said:

USA lied and stole 1,5 bn , no?

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US didn't lie. They clearly told us what would happen. Erdogan government thought they were bluffing so they called the bluff and we were met with CAATSA and being booted from F-35.

mehmed beg said:

France wasn't ever going to sell Rafals to TAF

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We never asked for Rafales.

mehmed beg said:

Sweden also never wanted to sell Gripens

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We never asked for Gripens either. But they did help get TF-X start off in 2013.

mehmed beg said:

Germans never wanted till recently to sell Typhoons

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This is true.

mehmed beg said:

I don't think that Biden was will even to sell F16s to Turkiye

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Biden government spent more than a year to move the congress to okay the F-16 sale, and congress did okay it. F-16 sale is done, turns out it is the Turkish side that is moving the goal posts with other demands.

Per what's being reported for the last week; US have been pushing Turkey to move forward with the F-16 sale for the last year. Per the same people, Turkey wants a resolution to F-35s before moving forward with the F-16 sale. Americans say that the F-16 sale with its big price tag would be a "confidence building" step to move forward to bigger stuff. Recent claims now say that Turkey will foregoe any new aircraft purchase and will ask for local engine production for F404 and F110; and Americans will again insist on the F-16 sale before moving to any other topics.

Tomorrow will be interesting. But we've finally learned what the hold up re new F-16s was.

We want to be free from America, but to do so we require American engines For Kaan and Hürjet and American knowhow and acceptance to modify our later block F-16s. It's a fucking gordion knot.

We are in a bind. We lack the funds to spend billions on foreign aircraft and fund our own aircraft programs simultaneously. But we need stopgap aircraft yesterday and our own projects won't become real things in this decade.

Sanchez said:

US didn't lie. They clearly told us what would happen. Erdogan government thought they were bluffing so they called the bluff and we were met with CAATSA and being booted from F-35.


We never asked for Rafales.


We never asked for Gripens either. But they did help get TF-X start off in 2013.


This is true.


Biden government spent more than a year to move the congress to okay the F-16 sale, and congress did okay it. F-16 sale is done, turns out it is the Turkish side that is moving the goal posts with other demands.

Per what's being reported for the last week; US have been pushing Turkey to move forward with the F-16 sale for the last year. Per the same people, Turkey wants a resolution to F-35s before moving forward with the F-16 sale. Americans say that the F-16 sale with its big price tag would be a "confidence building" step to move forward to bigger stuff. Recent claims now say that Turkey will foregoe any new aircraft purchase and will ask for local engine production for F404 and F110; and Americans will again insist on the F-16 sale before moving to any other topics.

Tomorrow will be interesting. But we've finally learned what the hold up re new F-16s was.

We want to be free from America, but to do so we require American engines For Kaan and Hürjet and American knowhow and acceptance to modify our later block F-16s. It's a fucking gordion knot.

We are in a bind. We lack the funds to spend billions on foreign aircraft and fund our own aircraft programs simultaneously. But we need stopgap aircraft yesterday and our own projects won't become real things in this decade.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1970819632312586551

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Kinda sad for the airforce no new fighter jets in 17 years (2011-2028) at least coming decade looks very promising

Pokemonte13 said:

Kinda sad for the airforce no new fighter jets in 17 years (2011-2028) at least coming decade looks very promising

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If it can come, that is.

For those who are confused, this is the simplification of the matter:

>>>Trump wants to make Turkey a cash machine for the US industrial complex in order to finance their already-late 6th generation fighter jet; as China already flew three different 6th gen prototypes

>>>Erdogan's govt is split into 2 different groups: the first wants to buy US fighter jets as a stop-gap measure for the TAF. The second group wants to give priority to domestic manufacturers and just buy US engines for KAAN pronto.

The problem with the first group's idea is that the US's F16 and F35 production lines are already reserved for at least the next 3 years; thus, any planes to Turkey will be given after 3 years minimum. Moreover, the initial deal is estimated at a massive 50 billion dollars for the F16s alone (not to mention the F35s). Moreover, the US doesnt want to allow Turkey to use its domestic munitions on its F16 Viper jets and abandon american amunitions. Finally, many Turkish officials are worried that the US take the initial money for the F16s and after a couple of years, they will come up with an excuse from their a** to sanction Turkey and prevent them from not only obtaining American jets but also prevent the domestic jet from being properly financed

The problem with the second group is that the US doesnt want to sell Turkey its engines without securing the massive initial F16 deal. Such a deal will deplete Turkish govt's reserves and make them unable to appropriately find KAAN for some years. Moreover, many expect the KAAN program to face many delays and probably only be incorporated into TAF in 2030 (just like how South Korea jet program got delayed a lot)

I also want to mention that Turkey will continue to please Trump since rumors do indicate that Turkey plans a Military Operation in SDF-controlled Syria next year if the SDF refuse to implement the March 10 agreement (ofcourse if the rumors are true that is)

No path will be easy for Turkey