TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

Huelague · Nov 29, 2025

Spitfire9 said:
Developing a 5G aircraft must be challenging. Sounds like you suggest adding a 6G, too, at the same time! Sounds like overstretch to me.

No. For Türkiye, to develop and build a 5. Gen. Fighter jet is way much harder than to build a 6. Gen after our 5. Gen. The reason is simple. To build a 5. Gen fighter jet from scratch without much knowledge, is a really mess.

From 5. to a 6. Gen is not a quantum leap. There is nothing new on this planes. Only mess is, the current technology we have right now, to put into the jet.

One more point. You can bet on it, if we finished the job (only by producing a prototype), we will work on the next (6.G jet, it’s the nature of business).

Huelague · Thursday at 3:28 PM

Looks matured.

Radom

Pilatino · Saturday at 6:44 AM

We Should Stop Calling KAAN a “5th Generation” Fighter

We really need to drop the “5th generation” label when talking about KAAN, because it actually undersells the entire system. The term locks KAAN into an F-22/F-35 comparison cycle that doesn’t reflect what Türkiye is building today.

KAAN is not a standalone fighter — it’s the core of a next-generation air dominance ecosystem that includes Kızılelma, Anka-3, Super Şimşek, advanced EW suites, national AESA radar, AI-enabled mission systems, and Loyal Wingman operations that most “6th gen” programs have not even demonstrated yet.

By calling it “5th gen,” we unintentionally play into the PR narrative of FCAS/GCAP, letting them brand their PowerPoint concepts as “6th gen” while our actual flying platforms are framed as “one step behind.”

KAAN is much closer to what the next generation of air combat looks like — networked, AI-native, unmanned–manned synergistic, and designed for systems warfare, not just kinematic superiority.

This is why we should simply call it what it is:

KAAN — Türkiye’s Next-Generation Air Dominance System.

Not 5th gen.
Not 4.75 gen.
Just next generation, because that’s exactly what it is.

Merzifonlu · Saturday at 6:51 AM

Pilatino said:
By calling it “5th gen,” we unintentionally play into the PR narrative of FCAS/GCAP, letting them brand their PowerPoint concepts as “6th gen” while our actual flying platforms are framed as “one step behind.”

Let everyone think Kaan is "one step behind". It's actually much better for us.

Yasar_TR · Saturday at 7:33 AM

Pilatino said:
We Should Stop Calling KAAN a “5th Generation” Fighter

We should first come down to Earth and not allow what we are building to go to our heads. Proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Let us first get this bird to fly with all possible bells and whistles we can furnish it with.
We don’t even have a final prototype that can fly. All we are talking about is what it is going to be. Let us realise it first and let the final product speak for it self.
Great achievement that Kaan flew twice, for a country that did not have the technology to build a jet fighter a couple of decades ago. But let us first, realise everything we are planning to do. Then start discussing what generation plane we are building. Every technical innovation you are mentioning here can be retrofitted to any 5th generation plane. That doesn’t make that plane a generation above the rest. It is a generation ahead if what it has, can not be retrofitted to the previous version.

Pilatino · Saturday at 7:56 AM

Yasar_TR said:
We should first come down to Earth and not allow what we are building to go to our heads. Proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Let us first get this bird to fly with all possible bells and whistles we can furnish it with.
We don’t even have a final prototype that can fly. All we are talking about is what it is going to be. Let us realise it first and let the final product speak for it self.
Great achievement that Kaan flew twice, for a country that did not have the technology to build a jet fighter a couple of decades ago. But let us first, realise everything we are planning to do. Then start discussing what generation plane we are building. Every technical innovation you are mentioning here can be retrofitted to any 5th generation plane. That doesn’t make that plane a generation above the rest. It is a generation ahead if what it has can not be retrofitted to the previous version.

You’re right that we shouldn’t get carried away KAAN still has to fly in its final form and prove everything in practice. No disagreement there.

But my point isn’t “KAAN is already 6th gen.”
The issue is that calling it “5th generation” limits the program before it even matures, while FCAS/GCAP freely call themselves “6th gen” without a single prototype in the air.

The “generation” system is mostly a marketing framework, not strict engineering.
KAAN’s architecture like native MUM-T design, stealth shaping, high-power avionics, ecosystem integration with Kızılelma/Anka-3 is built in from day one. These aren’t simple retrofits.

So yes, let the final aircraft speak for itself. However, we also don’t need to box it into a term that undersells what Türkiye is actually trying to build.
That’s why calling it simply “next generation” is more accurate and avoids giving rivals a free PR advantage.

Sanchez · Saturday at 8:05 AM

Pilatino said:
The “generation” system is mostly a marketing framework, not strict engineering

It isn't, but it was also never was a set list. It frames American fighter aircraft since 60s, that's it.

Calling Kaan a Next Gen fighter is suitable. It doesn't matter if it's in service or not, it's a next gen fighter in development. If it's cancelled tomorrow, it will be a cancelled next gen fighter. It's current development stage has no bearing on its generation or the future capabilities set for it when it enters service.

Pilatino · Saturday at 8:12 AM

TR_123456 said:
Optimism is good but lets do a reality check.
Fact is that the KAAN is nothing yet,it has flown for 15 minutes twice with an ''inferior'' foreign engine.
You cannot call the KAAN 5th gen with the F110 engine which is another fact.
As @Yasar_TR abi already stated,before we have an actual combat ready KAAN fighter jet performing like a next gen(5th gen) supposed to be performing we cannot call it anything.

I repeat, my point isn’t about today’s status.
It’s about how we frame the program as it develops.

KAAN's generation should defined by its final architecture and its rivals' claims, not the temporary test engine.

F-22 and F-35 prototypes also flew early with foreign or downgraded engines, incomplete avionics, and missing systems — yet nobody said “they are nothing yet, so they are not 5th gen.”

Prototype stages are always incomplete by definition.

What matters is:

stealth shaping and internal bays

native MUM-T design

high-power avionics architecture

low-observable materials

sensor fusion

the ecosystem it will operate in (Kızılelma, Anka-3, etc.)

These are built-in.
Engines and missing systems are temporary and will be replaced during testing phases.

So no, KAAN isn’t 5th gen today.
But locking it into a lesser label just because it is still in the prototype phase is also misleading.

The simplest and most accurate approach is:

Shall we let it mature, and call it “next generation” until it reaches full capability.

This avoids overhyping, avoids underselling, and keeps expectations realistic at the same time without making mistakes that can work against us.

2033 · Saturday at 8:39 AM

When I think of the sixth generation, the first things that come to mind are the tailless design and the “adaptive cycle engine.”

Kaan will undoubtedly be the fifth generation, but some of its features may be from the sixth generation.

Pilatino · Saturday at 9:05 AM

Yasar_TR said:
First YF22 that flew in 1990 had 2 x GE YF120 variable cycle engines. Not foreign ones. They were 30000lbf class engines.
Nobody said anything. Because, even though the first flight was made public, nobody knew much of the details of the program that really mattered.

KAAN is definitely NOT nothing. It is a BIG thing for us. Any one that tries to down talk Kaan is at wrong. It has flown; albeit with downgraded engines. But it is here, and is the backbone of our next generation airforce.

I guess when very little news is coming through related to KAAN, has made everyone to talk about its generation status now. But as per @Merzifonlu has said, let everyone know little about it now. It is better. When it is ready, rest assured, it WILL make itself known to the world.

Great points and I think this also shows why calling KAAN “just a 5th gen” is actually counterproductive.
We all seem to agree that the program is far beyond a simple checklist definition, just like YF-22 was in its early days.

Labeling it strictly as “5th gen” undersells the ambition, the roadmap, and the tech stack being built.
Better to let KAAN define its own place when the time comes, and it will.

Merzifonlu said:
Structurally, it sports a tailless design and a highly stealthy airframe, features that weren’t possible in earlier generations. Beyond that, there’s nothing the 6th generation offers that the 5th couldn’t, including variable-cycle engines. Another big plus of tailless design is the altitude edge. With the fuselage made almost entirely from a single-piece delta wing, it produces tremendous lift.

The tailless argument is massively overstated. Neither FCAS nor GCAP the very programs marketed as “6th generation” are tailless. Both have vertical stabilizers, and GCAP even has a more conventional tail arrangement.

So tying “6th gen” strictly to a tailless delta layout doesn’t hold up technically or logically. Tailless designs can offer advantages in stealth and high-altitude performance, but they are not a requirement for a next-generation platform.

Calling KAAN “5th gen” actually undersells our own work. We’re locking ourselves into a lower category while the rest of the world freely brands unfinished prototypes as next gen without meeting any objective criteria.

In a way, we’re doing a global-scale psyops against ourselves by repeating the enemy’s framing. There’s no reason to handicap our own program with labels that even the West doesn’t follow consistently.

The safest, most accurate term is simply:

KAAN: Türkiye’s next-generation fighter.

Spitfire9 · Saturday at 9:38 AM

Pilatino said:
The safest, most accurate term is simply:

KAAN: Türkiye’s next-generation fighter.

Even better, to remove all generational debate:

KAAN: Türkiye’s next fighter.

Iskander · Saturday at 10:45 AM

Spitfire9 said:
Even better, to remove all generational debate:

KAAN: Türkiye’s next fighter.

So, what were its predecessors?
Unfortunately, compared to a handful of aviation powers, Turkish aviation's history isn't all that rich.
The same was true with the Devrim car.
Frankly, the creation of the Hurjet surprised me.
But after the Hurjet, I had complete confidence in KAAN's success.

Quasar · Saturday at 11:00 AM

Iskander said:
So, what were its predecessors?
Unfortunately, compared to a handful of aviation powers, Turkish aviation's history isn't all that rich.
The same was true with the Devrim car.
Frankly, even the creation of the Hurjet surprised me.
But after the Hurjet, I had complete confidence in KAAN's success.

I was about to write but then I have changed my mind since I dont want to overdramatize the situation but, with all clarity the reality is every single person taking part in KAAN project deserves the highest praise possible considering the fact that they are on their way to achieve something unprecedented.... no need to be humble

Afif · Saturday at 12:29 PM

Pilatino said:
Calling KAAN “5th gen” actually undersells our own work.

5 gen definition doesn't undersell KAAN's work or ambition.

5th gen isn't strict term in itself. F35 and J20S are both going to control loyal wingman.

Pilatino said:
We’re locking ourselves into a lower category while the rest of the world freely brands unfinished prototypes as next gen without meeting any objective criteria.

Unlikely, given those very few countries (that are building 'next gen' platforms) doesn't have any less credibility in defence aviation compared to Turkiye if not more.

Pilatino · Saturday at 2:03 PM

Afif said:
5 gen definition doesn't undersell KAAN's work or ambition.

5th gen isn't strict term in itself. F35 and J20S are both going to control loyal wingman.

Unlikely, given those very few countries (that are building 'next gen' platforms) doesn't have any less credibility in defence aviation compared to Turkiye if not more.

I get your point but what I mean is this:

“5th gen” isn’t wrong, it’s just limiting.
Yes, the term isn’t strict, and yes, other 5th gens also command loyal wingmen. That part is true.

But the issue isn’t the definition... it’s the perception game.

Other countries freely call unfinished prototypes “next gen” because they understand that branding shapes expectations, funding, political support, and export potential long before the aircraft is complete.

We’re the only ones voluntarily putting our own project into a smaller box.
Not because KAAN lacks ambition, but because we downplay it.

Credibility isn’t the problem.
Türkiye today has more credibility in aerospace than many assume and certainly enough to describe KAAN as a next-gen program in development, the same way GCAP, FCAS, NGAD or even Checkmate are framed.

So the point is not “KAAN can’t be 5th gen.”

The point is:

Why limit ourselves when others don’t?

If everyone else is playing the perception game while we voluntarily undersell our own work, I just can’t accept that, so I’ll do everything I can to fix it. Better late than never.

boredaf · Saturday at 4:15 PM

Pilatino said:
If everyone else is playing the perception game while we voluntarily undersell our own work, I just can’t accept that, so I’ll do everything I can to fix it. Better late than never.

This is such a weird hang up to have and a hill to die on. Whether arbitrary or not, fighter jet generations have been a part of aviation terminology for 3 or 4 decades and they are universally accepted and used. You have a problem with calling Kaan a 5th gen fighter? Go and tell that to Tusas. And SSB. And Air force. And everyone in between because everyone and their mums are calling it a 5th gen plane.

And those other countries are calling their new projects "next gen" because all of them, well maybe except for Su-75, are working on 6th gen aircrafts and 6 comes after 5. China has already been flying theirs, probably US as well and while those two are leading the way, two European coalitions are still working on theirs; but the crux of the matter is, all of them are planning on those jets to be different than the 5th gen fighters they already have.

I mean, if you want to shadowbox and argue online why it should be called "next gen" while people in charge of the project are calling it 5th gen, go ahead mate, its your life after all but there has to be a better use of your time, I hope.

Huelague · Saturday at 5:39 PM

T.Kotil said it right. KAAN in his final version will be a 5+ Gen. fighter jet.

Zafer · Saturday at 6:00 PM

Huelague said:
Looks matured.

Radom

Seems like the video guy had a sneak peek at the latest design.

Quasar · Saturday at 6:32 PM

Pilatino said:
I get your point but what I mean is this:

“5th gen” isn’t wrong, it’s just limiting.
Yes, the term isn’t strict, and yes, other 5th gens also command loyal wingmen. That part is true.

But the issue isn’t the definition... it’s the perception game.

Other countries freely call unfinished prototypes “next gen” because they understand that branding shapes expectations, funding, political support, and export potential long before the aircraft is complete.

We’re the only ones voluntarily putting our own project into a smaller box.
Not because KAAN lacks ambition, but because we downplay it.

Credibility isn’t the problem.
Türkiye today has more credibility in aerospace than many assume and certainly enough to describe KAAN as a next-gen program in development, the same way GCAP, FCAS, NGAD or even Checkmate are framed.

So the point is not “KAAN can’t be 5th gen.”

The point is:

Why limit ourselves when others don’t?

If everyone else is playing the perception game while we voluntarily undersell our own work, I just can’t accept that, so I’ll do everything I can to fix it. Better late than never.

boredaf said:
This is such a weird hang up to have and a hill to die on. Whether arbitrary or not, fighter jet generations have been a part of aviation terminology for 3 or 4 decades and they are universally accepted and used. You have a problem with calling Kaan a 5th gen fighter? Go and tell that to Tusas. And SSB. And Air force. And everyone in between because everyone and their mums are calling it a 5th gen plane.

And those other countries are calling their new projects "next gen" because all of them, well maybe except for Su-75, are working on 6th gen aircrafts and 6 comes after 5. China has already been flying theirs, probably US as well and while those two are leading the way, two European coalitions are still working on theirs; but the crux of the matter is, all of them are planning on those jets to be different than the 5th gen fighters they already have.

I mean, if you want to shadowbox and argue online why it should be called "next gen" while people in charge of the project are calling it 5th gen, go ahead mate, its your life after all but there has to be a better use of your time, I hope.

Indonesia's order for 48 KAAN aircraft has reinforced Turkey's success in 5th-generation fighter jet production and the trust placed in TAI. TAI is simultaneously continuing its work on the 6th-generation fighter jet. Indonesia, the first country to join the National Combat Aircraft (MMU) KAAN project, has once again brought Turkey to the global spotlight with the 48-unit order it announced following the memorandum of understanding. Turkish Aerospace Industries Inc. (TAI) General Manager Dr. Mehmet Demiroğlu stated that this order demonstrates Turkey's trust in Turkey, noting that they have already initiated preliminary work on the 6th generation. He stated that the 6th-generation project is not something to be undertaken after the KAAN reaches a certain level. Demiroğlu, emphasized that KAAN and the 6th generation are ongoing parallel projects, saying, "We planned to develop the 6th generation features as quickly as possible on our own platforms and implement them in KAAN." Source: haber.aero

https://haber.aero/ozel-roportajlar/kaan-6nci-nesil-ucak-demiroglu-tusas/

I have this feeling that no one is totally right or totally wrong! we are all catching bits and pieces of the truth...

Pilatino · Sunday at 12:47 AM

boredaf said:
This is such a weird hang up to have and a hill to die on. Whether arbitrary or not, fighter jet generations have been a part of aviation terminology for 3 or 4 decades and they are universally accepted and used. You have a problem with calling Kaan a 5th gen fighter? Go and tell that to Tusas. And SSB. And Air force. And everyone in between because everyone and their mums are calling it a 5th gen plane.

And those other countries are calling their new projects "next gen" because all of them, well maybe except for Su-75, are working on 6th gen aircrafts and 6 comes after 5. China has already been flying theirs, probably US as well and while those two are leading the way, two European coalitions are still working on theirs; but the crux of the matter is, all of them are planning on those jets to be different than the 5th gen fighters they already have.

I mean, if you want to shadowbox and argue online why it should be called "next gen" while people in charge of the project are calling it 5th gen, go ahead mate, its your life after all but there has to be a better use of your time, I hope.

I’m not “dying on a hill” over terminology. I’m pointing out a strategic communication mistake.
When SSB or TUSAŞ use “5th gen,” they’re speaking in a legacy framework because that’s the only globally recognized scale from the past. That doesn’t mean it’s the smartest label going forward.

Other countries brand their unfinished programs as “next gen” because perception matters in defence politics, exports, partnerships, and long-term influence.
We, on the other hand, voluntarily pick the lowest possible label and then wonder why our work is undervalued internationally.

That’s the entire issue.

I’m not arguing KAAN isn’t 5th gen... I’m saying calling it only 5th gen is limiting and outdated when the rest of the world uses broader, more strategic terminology.

If others are playing the perception game, I don’t see why we should handicap ourselves for free.

And yes, even if I’m the only one pointing it out, I’ll keep doing it. Better late than never.

P.S. If it helps ease your mind, I’ve already reached out to TUSAŞ and the relevant officials about this. There’s nothing wrong with that; my goal was never to arm-wrestle with anyone here, only to point out what I believe is an important issue.

If it’s being perceived as a competition, then the discussion has clearly gone beyond my intention and been misunderstood.

Some talk about the “5th generation” label like it’s a sacred oath written in blood and the fate of the universe depends on defending it

Relax guys! it’s just a category, not a holy scripture.

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