TR Air Defence Programs

Saithan · May 7, 2021

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1390667877653614598

Compacted version too

Cabatli_TR · May 7, 2021

akrepon said:
Do you guys think we will have something similar to S400 in future?

"High altitude Long Range" ongoing missile defence system are being developed by Turkish engineers at present but this system will be more like an Arrow or Thaad missile defence system and won't be in same class with S400.

Yasar_TR · May 7, 2021

Zafer said:
This makes Mr. Demir a big time liar, but anyways. Thinking that they are thinking in a range of ranges they shouldn't have left any unfilled range in the system which make people think that they have should have not left a gap there. I do thrust them that they will do a good job.

I don’t think he is lying. He is giving what he has been told to give. When it comes to national matters, keeping some truths close to your chest can not be construed as lying.

Zafer · May 7, 2021

Yasar said:
I don’t think he is lying. He is giving what he has been told to give. When it comes to national matters, keeping some truths close to your chest can not be construed as lying.

I don't mean to say he is actually lying but something is off.
If they wanted everything to be crystall clear to the audience they would prepare infographics showing all details. We are being informed well enough.

akrepon · May 7, 2021

Cabatli_53 said:
"High altitude Long Range" ongoing missile defence system are being developed by Turkish engineers at present but this system will be more like an Arrow or Thaad missile defence system and won't be in same class with S400.

Is this the EuroSAM system for which we take part.

TheInsider · May 7, 2021

EuroSAM is frozen. It is blocked by the white flag country. We are moving on without them.

There is a limit how compact Gökdeniz can get. It is dual 35mm cannons so there are hard limits.

akrepon · May 7, 2021

Cabatli_53 said:
"High altitude Long Range" ongoing missile defence system are being developed by Turkish engineers at present but this system will be more like an Arrow or Thaad missile defence system and won't be in same class with S400.

I still think having systems like S400 are quite useful especially for area of denial operations. This way you can protect a very large area cost effectively. What do you think about this?

Cabatli_TR · May 7, 2021

akrepon said:
I still think having systems like S400 are quite useful especially for area of denial operations. This way you can protect a very large area cost effectively. What do you think about this?

Radar detection and network centric warfare capabilities are playing the most important role in longer ranges. If we take likely threat list into consideration, we can predict the required range figures for a SAM system. S400 radars can detect an F35 from a range around 40-50km (? Open sources). The size and shape of Cruise missiles and their flight profiles make them more deadly threats than a stealth aircraft. Ground shape, mountains, terrain have also its own limitation when we want to emit radar electromagnetic signals to longer ranges. Assume that a 4th generation aircraft having 1m2 RCS(Rafale-F18) are detected inside a radius of 80-100km. Firing a huge missile having a range of 400km won't give much advantages to the countries as long as you won't be able to see the target in these ranges so Land based SAM systems have their own standards. S400 is a good SAM If you want to detect and strike in AEWC, jammer aircrafts or big bombers but They must be protected heavily by all other SAM systems.

Kartal1 · May 7, 2021

Cabatli_53 said:
İsmail Demir: A triple defense system on a land platform, one of which is a laser, is being developed to prevent UAV attacks .

We would probably see a laser, jammer and 40mm ATOM on one platform with integrated radar and E/O system. Such a mobile system will be extremely useful for FOBs. In the last week we saw many such attacks by drones. Sometimes jamming is not effective because of them having an autopilot and preconfigured route. With such triple system there will be no running for drones, model planes and small loitering munitions.

Turko · May 7, 2021

Kartal1 said:
We would probably see a laser, jammer and 40mm ATOM on one platform with integrated radar and E/O system. Such a mobile system will be extremely useful for FOBs. In the last week we saw many such attacks by drones. Sometimes jamming is not effective because of them having an autopilot and preconfigured route. With such triple system there will be no running for drones, model planes and small loitering munitions.

Why 40mm bro? , we've already got 35 mm gun with smart ammunitions.

Anmdt · May 7, 2021

UkroTurk 🚬 said:
Why 40mm bro? , we've already got 35 mm gun with smart ammunitions.

35 mm uses oerlikon gdf or any other 35 barreled gun, it is more of a munition.
40 mm uses automatic - simple granede launcher, more of a granede. It is also smart.
The latter doesn't focus on rate of fire and has a limited range compared to the 35mm. Effective against soft targets.

Kartal1 · May 7, 2021

UkroTurk 🚬 said:
Why 40mm bro? , we've already got 35 mm gun with smart ammunitions.

35mm would be an overkill for such a system. As far as I can understand they want to develop it against mini/micro surveillance drones, mini/micro loitering munitions in the type of for example Kargu or Alpagu and such that are dropping grenade launcher or mortar rounds over FOBs. 40mm ATOM will do a great job for such targets. It is programmable normal 40mm grenade launcher ammunition. The way I see it is they will most probably integrate 40mm ATOM, laser weapon and Aselsan IHTAR like system on a moving platform. That would be a great capability.

Aselsan IHTAR (Integrated Aselsan ACAR, Aselsan Gergedan and E/O)

40mm ATOM integrated and test fired with Aselsan IHTAR

Aselsan LSS Laser Defence System integrated into BMC Amazon

Hexciter · May 7, 2021

TheInsider said:
No, we won't. We will have something similar to THAAD.

Something similar to THAAD or Standart?

dustdevil · May 7, 2021

TheInsider said:
BTW in Hisar-A+s latest test, the missile intercepted the target above 30k feet (~10km). So the range-altitude numbers i was told seem on spot.

I tried to calculate this using the footage... it looks like 32000ft where it shows the drone, +3000 ft for the elevation... so 35000ft is possible. (effective altitude of the target for Hisar is still 32.000ft, the performance will be better than a sea level to 32000ft launch due to less density)

The error margin was very high though, because I used many public photos and drawings of the various Banshee drones and estimated angles, but this crude info supports that Banshee 80 was ~~at high altitude approaching to the test site, i.e. around 20kms range at 35000 ft altitude....~~

It looks like drone is in a descent too, nose is below horizon, but I don't know what pitch angle is required for this drone for level flight, descent rate could be high or low depending on aerodynamics.

The point is, if someone has a Banshee 80 drone, he can estimate the altitude with much better precision.

Edit: Sorry, the proportion is ok but the distance calculation gave different results (half of those figures) in a second try, probably I made an error yesterday, I'll recalculate it later.
Edit: this part of footage is probably from another test flight. I’ll explain in another message.

Bogeyman · May 7, 2021

Kartal1 said:
35mm would be an overkill for such a system. As far as I can understand they want to develop it against mini/micro surveillance drones, mini/micro loitering munitions in the type of for example Kargu or Alpagu and such that are dropping grenade launcher or mortar rounds over FOBs. 40mm ATOM will do a great job for such targets. It is programmable normal 40mm grenade launcher ammunition. The way I see it is they will most probably integrate 40mm ATOM, laser weapon and Aselsan IHTAR like system on a moving platform. That would be a great capability.

Aselsan IHTAR (Integrated Aselsan ACAR, Aselsan Gergedan and E/O)

40mm ATOM integrated and test fired with Aselsan IHTAR

Aselsan LSS Laser Defence System integrated into BMC Amazon

You can't use particulate ammunition in cities. It hurts civilians.

Kartal1 · May 7, 2021

Bogeyman said:
You can't use particulate ammunition in cities. It hurts civilians.

That's why there are 3 systems. You can chose from 3 different types of neutralization both Soft Kill and Hard Kill.

chngr · May 7, 2021

Cabatli_53 said:
Radar detection and network centric warfare capabilities are playing the most important role in longer ranges. If we take likely threat list into consideration, we can predict the required range figures for a SAM system. S400 radars can detect an F35 from a range around 40-50km (? Open sources). The size and shape of Cruise missiles and their flight profiles make them more deadly threats than a stealth aircraft. Ground shape, mountains, terrain have also its own limitation when we want to emit radar electromagnetic signals to longer ranges. Assume that a 4th generation aircraft having 1m2 RCS(Rafale-F18) are detected inside a radius of 80-100km. Firing a huge missile having a range of 400km won't give much advantages to the countries as long as you won't be able to see the target in these ranges so Land based SAM systems have their own standards. S400 is a good SAM If you want to detect and strike in AEWC, jammer aircrafts or big bombers but They must be protected heavily by all other SAM systems.

Yeah we would have network centric warfare capability to operate 400km range missile...

We need like SM-6...Long range anti-air, anti-ship..vb missile

Siper most likely similar SM-2 Block 3C...We need Siper family like Standard family

Siper + Booster = Siper-ER = SM-6
Sİper + Booster + Kinetic Kill Vehicle = GUMS = SM-3

chngr · May 8, 2021

TheInsider said:
No, we won't. We will have something similar to THAAD.

We are need S400 or SM-6 than THAAD or ARROW

Combat-Master · May 8, 2021

Hisar A+

Aselsan SARP-L

Tornadoss · May 8, 2021

Combat-Master said:
Hisar A+

View attachment 20496
View attachment 20497
View attachment 20499

Aselsan SARP-L
View attachment 20501

On the left, there is Sarp-L what is the device on the right?

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