TR Air Defence Programs

[Afif]

The most likely ballistic missile attack towards Turkey is Iran followed by Russia, Imo, from the look (and size) of it, Siper is capable against TBM/SRBM missiles. Is there any plan to upgrade the booster to be able to tackle MRBM and IRBM missile that Iran operate ?

ABM version of SIPER will come later, this is not it.
because without hit to kill shot you can not guarantee an BM interception.

 

[Radonsider]

ABM version of SIPER will come later, this is not it.
because without hit to kill shot you can not guarantee an BM interception.

Well ABM version is said to be an Exo-atmospheric one (Ismail Demir's statements)

 

[Anmdt]

Well ABM version is said to be an Exo-atmospheric one (Ismail Demir's statements)

The real Siper is going to have limited BM capability, the later block of it will have exo-atmospheric capability.
This is ex Hisar-U, promoted to Siper family, not likely to have BM capability apart from point defence.

 

[Enderun]

TÜBİTAK SAGE Manager Gürcan Okumus

'When the GÖKHAN project is completed, I can say that it will be a rocket with very advanced technology, surpassing its counterparts.'

Ground-fired tests of the ramjet-powered GÖKHAN rocket in 2023

Transition from turbojet to ramjet engine.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593585502464184321

 

[Yasar_TR]

ABM version of SIPER will come later, this is not it.
because without hit to kill shot you can not guarantee an BM interception.

All Hisar and Siper missiles are “hit-to-kill” missiles. They also have TVC capabilities. (See attached link)
They all have dual pulse motors.

HİSAR-RF SGTM Firing Test and the Differences Between the SİPER B1 Missile

On February 19, 2022, President of Defence Industries (SSB) İsmail DEMİR announced on his social media account that the HİSAR-O+ System successfully destroyed a target in the first firing test carried out with the RF (Radio Frequency) Seeker model. DEMİR said,

www.defenceturkey.com

 

[Lool]

TÜBİTAK SAGE Manager Gürcan Okumus

'When the GÖKHAN project is completed, I can say that it will be a rocket with very advanced technology, surpassing its counterparts.'

Ground-fired tests of the ramjet-powered GÖKHAN rocket in 2023

Transition from turbojet to ramjet engine.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593585502464184321

Is there a turbojet powered gokhan missile?

 

[Afif]

All Hisar and Siper missiles are “hit-to-kill” missiles. They also have TVC capabilities. (See attached link)
They all have dual pulse motors.

HİSAR-RF SGTM Firing Test and the Differences Between the SİPER B1 Missile

On February 19, 2022, President of Defence Industries (SSB) İsmail DEMİR announced on his social media account that the HİSAR-O+ System successfully destroyed a target in the first firing test carried out with the RF (Radio Frequency) Seeker model. DEMİR said,

www.defenceturkey.com

I was actually reffering to hit to kill vehicle or nose section with altitute control motor like aster and MIM104 pac 3 or thaad.

Yes, all the mamber of hisar and Siper family has dual pulse.

And aselsan's seeker performed with incredible accuracy in all three gokdogan, hisar rf and siper test achieving hit to kill shots.

However, all these tests were against slow subsonic targets.

But when it comes to BM traveling at high supersonic or hypersonic speed at their terminal phase, I am not sure if it possible to achieve hit to kill shots without PIF-PAF control Even if your seeker is highly accurate.
Because even the tiniest steering of TVC will move the missile meters away from target. Given the thrust of the main motor is too powerful to make very precise one or Half feet course correction.

However as @Anmdt pointed out siper block 1 should be capable of point defence against TBM like barak 8.

Personally I think hisar family's one shortcoming is that, it has never been tested against supersonic target.
I am only mentioning it because it seems amry is buying it. While unfortunately, unlike TURKEY, our immediate neighborhood has a lot of supersonic 'stuff' to deal with.

 

[Kartal1]

The real Siper is going to have limited BM capability, the later block of it will have exo-atmospheric capability.
This is ex Hisar-U, promoted to Siper family, not likely to have BM capability apart from point defence.

@Yasar The opportunity that we have by getting back in the EUROSAM consortium is a very big one. They plan on developing Block II which is advertised to have an exo-atmospheric capability.

By joining forces within EUROSAM we can develop an extremely potent missile defence shield and get a piece of the pie from every sale of these systems. We can configure them according to our exact needs. I have discussed this many times both here and also in another forum and everytime I come to the conclusion that such an opportunity must not be missed.

 

[Anmdt]

@Yasar The opportunity that we have by getting back in the EUROSAM consortium is a very big one. They plan on developing Block II which is advertised to have an exo-atmospheric capability.

By joining forces within EUROSAM we can develop an extremely potent missile defence shield and get a piece of the pie from every sale of these systems. We can configure them according to our exact needs. I have discussed this many times both here and also in another forum and everytime I come to the conclusion that such an opportunity must not be missed.

I think it is crucial as well. My personal opinion; I don't see limited ABM capability being fulfilled before 2025-2026 for real Siper. For exoatmospheric capability maybe 2030.

Before all we need to see a "BM imitating target" to test these features. Being in concortium will accelerate these procedures as we will get the knowledge of ABM concept and tests regarding to that.

 

[TheInsider]

There are 3 different missiles.
Siper Block-I
Siper Block-II
Siper Block-III


Siper Block-I will have only partial anti-ballistic capability. It is a modified Hisar-RF with a booster. It uses the same RF seeker from Hisar-RF. It will be delivered to TAF in January 2023. TAF will run tests on the Siper long-range AD system as a whole.
Siper Block-II will have a reaction control system with small rocket engines and it has been designed for high-altitude endoatmospheric interception of ballistic missiles. It is nearing the end of the critical design phase. A critical design review is expected to be completed before the end of 2023. It is planned with a hybrid seeker (RF-IIR) in the conceptual phase but I have no recent info about its seeker. It is a single-piece missile without any booster. The first test of the missile will likely happen in 2024. ETA is late 2025.
Siper Block-III will have a kill vehicle and it is designed for exoatmospheric interception. It is in the conceptual design and technology gathering phase. ETA late 2027 at best. There is not much info but this one is likely to have 2 stages and will retain the hybrid seeker from block-II.

 

[Huelague]

The most likely ballistic missile attack towards Turkey is Iran followed by Russia, Imo, from the look (and size) of it, Siper is capable against TBM/SRBM missiles. Is there any plan to upgrade the booster to be able to tackle MRBM and IRBM missile that Iran operate ?

Greece, Armenia.. everything can happen.

 

[dBSPL]

This is getting crazy, we used to whine about Hisar-A / O range few years ago and now we are talking about 100+ km range ( maybe even 110 at the last test) for a quadpackable 5.3 meter long missile

ANMDT üstad saying that will be quadpack SIPERs on each cell. With the naval variant of SIPER ABM we will be the second country(as producer) in the world to achieve this capability?

 

[Afif]

There are 3 different missiles.
Siper Block-I
Siper Block-II
Siper Block-III


Siper Block-I will have only partial anti-ballistic capability. It is a modified Hisar-RF with a booster. It uses the same RF seeker from Hisar-RF. It will be delivered to TAF in January 2023. TAF will run tests on the Siper long-range AD system as a whole.
Siper Block-II will have a reaction control system with small rocket engines and it has been designed for high-altitude endoatmospheric interception of ballistic missiles. It is nearing the end of the critical design phase. A critical design review is expected to be completed before the end of 2023. It is planned with a hybrid seeker (RF-IIR) in the conceptual phase but I have no recent info about its seeker. It is a single-piece missile without any booster. The first test of the missile will likely happen in 2024. ETA is late 2025.
Siper Block-III will have a kill vehicle and it is designed for exoatmospheric interception. It is in the conceptual design and technology gathering phase. ETA late 2027 at best. There is not much info but this one is likely to have 2 stages and will retain the hybrid seeker from block-II.

by small rocket engines do you mean altitude control motors or something different ?

 

[TheInsider]

by small rocket engines do you mean altitude control motors or something different ?

 

[fire starter]

All Hisar and Siper missiles are “hit-to-kill” missiles. They also have TVC capabilities. (See attached link)
They all have dual pulse motors.

HİSAR-RF SGTM Firing Test and the Differences Between the SİPER B1 Missile

On February 19, 2022, President of Defence Industries (SSB) İsmail DEMİR announced on his social media account that the HİSAR-O+ System successfully destroyed a target in the first firing test carried out with the RF (Radio Frequency) Seeker model. DEMİR said,

www.defenceturkey.com

It means they don't carry warhead or may be it is being referred to accuracy here.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Since 2018, we say that strategic components were being developed for exo-atmospheric missile defense systems. This news may be mentioned for the first time for Siper blocks by official mouths but the test setups and developed algorithms for 5 axis DoF on this subject have been told by Aselsan and mentioned by us in our forum many times bros. Those who follow the developments carefully in defencehub will remember this information.

 

[Oublious]

 

[azaher77]

Göker 35 millimeter Multi-Purpose Weapon

As a result of the tests, Göker showed that he was ready for duty in border and base defense

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593899549705338880

 

[Radonsider]

The real Siper is going to have limited BM capability, the later block of it will have exo-atmospheric capability.
This is ex Hisar-U, promoted to Siper family, not likely to have BM capability apart from point defence.

I was talking about Bl2

 

[TheInsider]

There are 3 different missiles.
Siper Block-I
Siper Block-II
Siper Block-III


Siper Block-I will have only partial anti-ballistic capability. It is a modified Hisar-RF with a booster. It uses the same RF seeker from Hisar-RF. It will be delivered to TAF in January 2023. TAF will run tests on the Siper long-range AD system as a whole.
Siper Block-II will have a reaction control system with small rocket engines and it has been designed for high-altitude endoatmospheric interception of ballistic missiles. It is nearing the end of the critical design phase. A critical design review is expected to be completed before the end of 2023. It is planned with a hybrid seeker (RF-IIR) in the conceptual phase but I have no recent info about its seeker. It is a single-piece missile without any booster. The first test of the missile will likely happen in 2024. ETA is late 2025.
Siper Block-III will have a kill vehicle and it is designed for exoatmospheric interception. It is in the conceptual design and technology gathering phase. ETA late 2027 at best. There is not much info but this one is likely to have 2 stages and will retain the hybrid seeker from block-II.

According to one of my sources, there were actually 4 different missiles. One of them is canceled and after that Hisar-RF+booster is named Block-I rather than block-0. According to earlier plans, what is now known as Block-I was a different single-piece/monolithic missile project without RCS/DACS and was effective against air-breathing targets. Block-II was the same as current block-II with RCS/DACS and effective against both ballistic missiles and air-breathing targets. An improved RF seeker was planned for Block-I, while a hybrid seeker was planned for Block-2.

The plan above is changed because Hisar-RF+booster performed better than expected both in accuracy and range and Tubitak/Aselsan/Roketsan achieved breakthroughs in several subsystems related to the Block-II missile and the project is progressing faster than expected.