TR Air Defence Programs

Bogeyman 

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But we can buy Russian products definitely right?
If the USA doesn't give it to them even though we want it, or if it makes excuses not to give it (such as costing the missile defense systems it will sell to costs we can't afford), then why not buy it from the Russians.

What kind of dependency relationship is this? Do we have to wait for the US to impose an embargo on us for carrying out an operation against the PKK in Syria?
 

Anmdt

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If the USA doesn't give it to them even though we want it, or if it makes excuses not to give it (such as costing the missile defense systems it will sell to costs we can't afford), then why not buy it from the Russians.

What kind of dependency relationship is this? Do we have to wait for the US to impose an embargo on us for carrying out an operation against the PKK in Syria?
Am i telling anything to buy those from US? Isn't there any other options?
Russians should be the last option in anything. Not coming second right after US.
 

Bogeyman 

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Am i telling anything to buy those from US? Isn't there any other options?
Russians should be the last option in anything. Not coming second right after US.

If we exclude the Siper project. I wonder who else is left to sell us air defense systems from the West, even outside the USA. The French had placed an embargo on SAMP-T. The project has been stalled for years. Why do we have to run after men who work so hard to exclude us?
 

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If we exclude the Siper project. I wonder who else is left to sell us air defense systems from the West, even outside the USA. The French had placed an embargo on SAMP-T. The project has been stalled for years. Why do we have to run after men who work so hard to exclude us?
It doesn't have to be from the west, told it before if noone has left (although i know SAMP-T matter is more like about involvement of Turkey as a partner, not related to case which Turkey may order some units in cash) China is still a better option than Russia.
 

Bogeyman 

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It doesn't have to be from the west, told it before if noone has left (although i know SAMP-T matter is more like about involvement of Turkey as a partner, not related to case which Turkey may order some units in cash) China is still a better option than Russia.
China is not a good option for the West. Buying an air defense system from China was enough to get an embargo from the West. They had already tried to sell us a copy of the S-300. Why beg China for an older technology when we can get the S-400?
 

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I think people are missing the point on purpose to be able to argue a case.

I assume everyone here would prefer not having to buy US, EU, Chinese or Russian AD systems if we had our own.

So since we have Hisar A+ and O+, and already wasted money on one S400, I'd say we don't need to spend more money unless TAS explicitly says so. Just mass produce 30-50 Hisar O+ and use them for interception and the existing S400 for spotting.

Since we're not hearing anything about it, or maybe we'll not hear anything from General Staff because RTE will sack them all, they'll stay quiet do their job and let RTE spend money on a second batch of S400.

The point here is that people should call out when decisions are retarded and not sit quiet and support dumb decisions.

Should I assume that Zafer, Bogeyman etc. are very thrilled with RTE signing the refugee deal with EU just because they don't criticize the decision ? Is that how I should interpretate your silence ?
 

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frankly speaking according to claims S 400 is a potent system under normal cirmustances yet as a stand alone system in limited numbers hard to comment; S 400 is not useless but not a magical shield as well, we should be aware of that. We passed important thresholds concerning national Air defence network but it is still in the making. As long as we do not integrate S 400 to our network what we have is a handicaped system.
 

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China is not a good option for the West. Buying an air defense system from China was enough to get an embargo from the West. They had already tried to sell us a copy of the S-300. Why beg China for an older technology when we can get the S-400?
Getting S400 or Chinese S300 leads to the same embargo, we shouldn't get into debate of this just to see how silly it was to scrap Chinese FM2000 deal because of the embargo threats and ending up buying Russian S400 then leading to the same embargoes. Then why buy any complete complex systems from a country that is obviously and openly hostile to you and clearly bombed our soldiers deliberately, again and again, despite of the contacts and notices through the red line, there is no dignity or anything explainable in this?
There are too many reasons on why Russia should be the last options in anything for Turkey, this spans from anything related technology to the politics.
 

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frankly speaking according to clamims S 400 is a potent system under normal cirmustances yet as a stand alone system in limited numbers hard to comment; S 400 is not useless but not a magical shield as well, we should be aware of that. We passed important thresholds concerning national Air defence network but it is still in the making. As long as we do not integrate S 400 to our network what we have is a handicaped system.
That's where the HAKİM Air Command Control System comes into play. Thus, Turkey will have the ability to establish its own network independent of NATO.
 

Quasar

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That's where the HAKİM Air Command Control System comes into play. Thus, Turkey will have the ability to establish its own network independent of NATO.
pros & cons of integrating S 400 to our national network would be an interesting subject or time line for such an endeavor or Do we realy need S 400? is it that vital to have S 400 at the current stage anymore ???
 
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Saithan

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frankly speaking according to claims S 400 is a potent system under normal cirmustances yet as a stand alone system in limited numbers hard to comment; S 400 is not useless but not a magical shield as well, we should be aware of that. We passed important thresholds concerning national Air defence network but it is still in the making. As long as we do not integrate S 400 to our network what we have is a handicaped system.

That's where the HAKİM Air Command Control System comes into play. Thus, Turkey will have the ability to establish its own network independent of NATO.
I assume it's confidential how many Hisar systems we're going to get, but It would be good for the public to know the bare minimum let's say 10 systems even if we get 40. It's equally important to let the public know that we're building a layered defense system and the Hisars are going to be delivered (10 or more).
 

Bogeyman 

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Getting S400 or Chinese S300 leads to the same embargo, we shouldn't get into debate of this just to see how silly it was to scrap Chinese FM2000 deal because of the embargo threats and ending up buying Russian S400 then leading to the same embargoes. Then why buy any complete complex systems from a country that is obviously and openly hostile to you and clearly bombed our soldiers deliberately, again and again, despite of the contacts and notices through the red line, there is no dignity or anything explainable in this?
There are too many reasons on why Russia should be the last options in anything for Turkey, this spans from anything related technology to the politics.
It was not the Russians who tried to start a civil war in our country on 15 July. That's why you can't compare the USA with the Russians in harming Turkey.


I do not understand. Why do those who raise the floor because the Russians killed 30-40 of our soldiers do not say a word to the USA, which is working to start a civil war in our country.
Don't tell me the strategic depth bullshit. Do you think this country has no right to react to the USA? Should the relationship between us be a slave master relationship?
 

Anmdt

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I do not understand. Why do those who raise the floor because the Russians killed 30-40 of our soldiers do not say a word to the USA, which is working to start a civil war in our country.
I am telling Chinese, not American. I wonder how do you read my posts? None of my posts in last 3 was telling "lets pursue american systems", if we have any urgent needs lets buy Chinese systems, why would anybody ever praise or support purchase of Russian systems or any collaboration of them?

I again wonder how do you read my posts, or in which post you have noticed " let's buy american systems, pursue them" , my posts are clearly indicating the priority is domestic systems even if it takes time, then Europeans if they approach for sale, my last 3 options are Chinese, American and lastly Russians. Yes US is still ahead Russia for me, because if the AKP had some guts and didn't let Feto perish and grow, we wouldn't experience 15 July.

And let's not bring Feto into this subject,it has no purpose because the current government and president was once allies to them, and worked together with them while high rank patriot soldiers are detained, cosmic room raided and secrets revealed to the enemies. there are many more i can't even list them here. From your perspective neither AKP nor the President should be in their positions at the moment.
 

Bogeyman 

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Combat-Master

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I'd like to see some sort of co-operative developments like the Russian-South Korean - KM-SAM.

EH7o5EZa4cS3wbD60R6cjoMkIUzEEyi6qCtxSgusT8A.jpg


 

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Shared technology may be critical if it is agreed not to share details. I think we can use this technology in our "S400 equivalent" project. This project will mature around 2025.

Cold launch and direct thrust vector is going to be key to Turkey's leap in Air Defence (and other missile) developments, hopefully this know how can be attained.
 

Bogeyman 

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I am telling Chinese, not American. I wonder how do you read my posts? None of my posts in last 3 was telling "lets pursue american systems", if we have any urgent needs lets buy Chinese systems, why would anybody ever praise or support purchase of Russian systems or any collaboration of them?

I again wonder how do you read my posts, or in which post you have noticed " let's buy american systems, pursue them" , my posts are clearly indicating the priority is domestic systems even if it takes time, then Europeans if they approach for sale, my last 3 options are Chinese, American and lastly Russians. Yes US is still ahead Russia for me, because if the AKP had some guts and didn't let Feto perish and grow, we wouldn't experience 15 July.

You seem to have forgotten what the same Americans did to us when we were going to buy China's FD-2000 air defense system. If we take into account the current Sino-US relations, it is obvious that ordering from China will be no different for Turkey than ordering from the Russians.

So what you're saying doesn't make any sense. You are contradicting yourself when you say that we should buy from China while opposing the Russians.
 

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