TR Air Defence Programs

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1460584537218506753

MSB HULUSİ AKAR: "The S-400 is a defense weapon system, and the S-400 system will be used in the same way as the S-300 is used within the NATO Alliance."

 

[Saithan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1460589719536898053

My personal conviction is that this is a move Russia is making to galvanize US senate to sanction Turkey and hinder sale of F16. This'll push Turkey into the arms of Russia.

Biden and his administration can do jack-shit about being played like this and RTE is hellbent on creating more rifts to western powers to truly cut off the umbellical cord like relations.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Remember once the russians pull you far enough out into the ocean they will leave you to drown.

More desperation and panic moves by ak party because they cant get what they want in northern syria.

 

[Huelague]

My personal conviction is that this is a move Russia is making to galvanize US senate to sanction Turkey and hinder sale of F16. This'll push Turkey into the arms of Russia.

Biden and his administration can do jack-shit about being played like this and RTE is hellbent on creating more rifts to western powers to truly cut off the umbellical cord like relations.

If Turkey join “East Alliance”, NATO is finished! No doubt!

 

[GoatsMilk]

If Turkey join “East Alliance”, NATO is finished! No doubt!

No all that happens is the western alliance goes all out against Turkey, while the eastern alliance knows Turkey is trapped and they exploit her and ruin her.

 

[Saithan]

If Turkey join “East Alliance”, NATO is finished! No doubt!

That's not the point. You need a strong economy and resilience along with independent defence industry to stand on your own two legs.

Our economy is still relient on EU, and our defence industry is still developing. We haven't exported to many countries yet with the exception of stuff we don't even know how it has been "exported".

While RTE has been raping TC economy and trying to copy China without respecting market powers and thus raping ppls living conditions the time for breaking with NATO is premature. With your mentality that solution would only be viable if we had nuclear bombs.

I'd say wait until we have developed our defence industry, exported shitload of arms to 100 countries in the world and gotten our feet inside and gained recognition and acceptance before we break off. I'm not talking about TB2, that is RTE political tool, I'm talking ADA, Istif, C92, Kaplan MT, Gökdeniz, Roketsan the whole shebang!

 

[Anmdt]

That's not the point. You need a strong economy and resilience along with independent defence industry to stand on your own two legs.

Our economy is still relient on EU, and our defence industry is still developing. We haven't exported to many countries yet with the exception of stuff we don't even know how it has been "exported".

While RTE has been raping TC economy and trying to copy China without respecting market powers and thus raping ppls living conditions the time for breaking with NATO is premature. With your mentality that solution would only be viable if we had nuclear bombs.

I'd say wait until we have developed our defence industry, exported shitload of arms to 100 countries in the world and gotten our feet inside and gained recognition and acceptance before we break off. I'm not talking about TB2, that is RTE political tool, I'm talking ADA, Istif, C92, Kaplan MT, Gökdeniz, Roketsan the whole shebang!

It is just some middle man making money with this S400 deal, nothing else.

Siper is on the way, and will be on field actively by 2025 or even 2024.

Tubitak says they are ready to field Goktug based SAM shortly in some years which is 2023-2024.

An S-400 with ToT will be in service in by 2023-2024.

Samp-T is also giving some green light and offering more valuable ToT than Russia does, we all know Russian ToT is nothing more than bolts and nuts for current state of the Turkish defence industry.

I even doubt if TAF actually accepts the S-400 or puts those into service, since acquired the trucks just lay in the airbase, inactive except once being taken to sinop.

This literally makes no sense in anyway. Those middleman who doesnt value national strategy for a gain their pockets should be punished badly when the wind changes.

 

[Huelague]

No all that happens is the western alliance goes all out against Turkey, while the eastern alliance knows Turkey is trapped and they exploit her and ruin her.

Never! Most strategic geography on earth. No one want give up.

 

[Lool]

It is just some middle man making money with this S400 deal, nothing else.

Siper is on the way, and will be on field actively by 2025 or even 2024.

Tubitak says they are ready to field Goktug based SAM shortly in some years which is 2023-2024.

An S-400 with ToT will be in service in by 2023-2024.

Samp-T is also giving some green light and offering more valuable ToT than Russia does, we all know Russian ToT is nothing more than bolts and nuts for current state of the Turkish defence industry.

I even doubt if TAF actually accepts the S-400 or puts those into service, since acquired the trucks just lay in the airbase, inactive except once being taken to sinop.

This literally makes no sense in anyway. Those middleman who doesnt value national strategy for a gain their pockets should be punished badly when the wind changes.

I dont believe that talks on SAMP-T will progress anyway
Knowing France, they wanna be the only ones who wanna get all the tech and be the main player; thus, talks will be extremely difficult to try and make France see Turkey and Italy as equals
Honestly, if the ToT on the S400 is significant, then I suggest for Turkey to go with it. It will even help Turkey gain an insight onto Russian tech and they can then combine it with the Western tech they already have to create an even better AD system. Gaining insights on different viewpoints of tech production is crucial to be at the top

The only thing SAMP-T tech will benefit Turkey is in anti-ballistic tech which Turkey lacks; though, hopefully, with the current progression rate, I would say a max of 2 to 3 more years until we get a concept or a prototype of a decent anti-ballistic systems

 

[Zafer]

It is just some middle man making money with this S400 deal, nothing else.

Siper is on the way, and will be on field actively by 2025 or even 2024.

Tubitak says they are ready to field Goktug based SAM shortly in some years which is 2023-2024.

An S-400 with ToT will be in service in by 2023-2024.

Samp-T is also giving some green light and offering more valuable ToT than Russia does, we all know Russian ToT is nothing more than bolts and nuts for current state of the Turkish defence industry.

I even doubt if TAF actually accepts the S-400 or puts those into service, since acquired the trucks just lay in the airbase, inactive except once being taken to sinop.

This literally makes no sense in anyway. Those middleman who doesnt value national strategy for a gain their pockets should be punished badly when the wind changes.

How did you want to cover the airspace in the 4 years until 2024 if it happens by then?
Seems like you would just keep Turkey defenseless and crippled.

 

[Anmdt]

How did you want to cover the airspace in the 4 years until 2024 if it happens by then?
Seems like you would just keep Turkey defenseless and crippled.

Why 1st S400 is not in service then but waiting idle in an airbase?

 

[Anmdt]

Seems like you would just keep Turkey defenseless and crippled.

For 10 years air defences at sea relies on ancient SM1 missiles in an ancient launcher. Navy could get Aster or SM2 or even better options but we wanted to wait 2 decades for our own systems. Meanwhile Libya issue broke out and handled by Hawk SAMs and our bases bombed.
ISIS shelled southern cities and we couldnt be proactive by getting Chinese systems that offered far more ToT.
We ended up with Russian systems that brought us to the same dead end as Chinese system would, plus less ToT.
S400 was not deployed in Armenian border, neither in Aegean region when things heated up with Greece. Again relied on F-16 and Hawk SAMs.

Plus read my post again, S400 wont be delivered by amazon the next day. The completion of system delivery plus their worthless ToT will cause it to be active, at best at the end of 2023.
Turkish systems will be ready i. 2024, that leaves a few months and i can assure you we spent decades without an air defence, passed 3 wars, and we can handle a few months safely.

I have never expected someone would ever be against a national system in this forum.

The entire deal, not just S400, going on with Russians is orchestrated by some middle man who only cares about their pocket, not fate of this country. Collaboration with Russia has no political, strategical or technological gain.

 

[Anmdt]

.

We can use the money to beef up our production and diversify our systems.

But we can buy Russian products definitely right?

 

[Anmdt]

How did you want to cover the airspace in the 4 years until 2024 if it happens by then?
Seems like you would just keep Turkey defenseless and crippled.

The below message is also told by you, right after this in another thread;

Give up national production?
That will not make any gains as the US has no interest in helping Turkey grow its power anyway.
We can use the money to beef up our production and diversify our systems.

 

[Khagan1923]

The below message is also told by you, right after this in another thread;

Too many Turkish Russophiles on the internet who for some reason forget about national projects the second some russian official tries to disrupt West-Turkey relations even more.

The first country that didn't want Turkey to have F-35s was Russia. If you think Russia would have been able to bomb 33 of our soldiers in Syria when they knew that Turkish F-35 were circling around able to intervene in any moment you are crazy. The same goes for the Black Sea. Russias biggest fear was F-35 patrolling the Black Sea and their ships looking likey prey who can't see their predators. Turkish F-35 could have downed the Russian pilots and then even bombed Russian positions with long stand off missiles killing dozens as an answer and the Russians would have no idea who it actually was. They would know but they wouldn't be able to prove it. What are they gonna do ? Shoot down a jet they can't even see on their radar until it is on top of them? The F-35 would have given us real Air Support in Idlip decimating any offensive and even hitting Assad Bases behind frontlines.

Look at Israel. They fly right on top of their heads and they can't even do anything. Russia can't even warn Assad or Iran because they can't see the Jet-

They got 2.5 billion dollars from us and got us kicked out of the most advanced jet project in the world. Meanwhile the S-400 we got are rotting away at the same INACTIVE base they were delivered to almost three years ago, other than one test fire for which no one is leaking anything because most likely the top brass was not satisfied with the shown performance.

And you know why they are at a INACTIVE Base? Because the second they are deployed to active bases anywhere we get sanctioned even more and the Government as well as TSK (who btw never wanted the S-400) are aware of this. That is why they are keeping them in warehouses on an inactive base and aren't able to get rid of them. Because Russia doesn't allow the sale of the hardware to third parties and the US wants them gone from Turkish soil completly. If we had the option the Government would have gifted them long time ago to Azerbaijan. But we can't. Not even Qatar is a option because they don't want to be sanctioned.

Biggest foreign policy blunder right after peace process and not intervening in syria earlier when the ypg was just a small conclave and ISIS had spread on our border.

 

[Zafer]

Why 1st S400 is not in service then but waiting idle in an airbase?

You know very well that they can be deployed in a matter of days anywhere you want to chose where and when they are needed. There is no need to deploy them before time.

 

[Saithan]

You know very well that they can be deployed in a matter of days anywhere you want to chose where and when they are needed. There is no need to deploy them before time.

or it's not deployed because it's useless. Since you can't prove otherwise we'll have to see when a different government comes.

 

[Zafer]

or it's not deployed because it's useless. Since you can't prove otherwise we'll have to see when a different government comes.

How can you prove that it is useless when other countries are also buying them, you are simply bullshitting as you do not have any basis for your claims.

 

[Zafer]

.

But we can buy Russian products definitely right?

No, that's only until we can make our own, the threat comes from the US.

EDIT: I was out in the cold when I made this post when I read the word "definitely" as "indefinitely" but the response holds its own for both cases.

 

[Saithan]

How can you prove that it is useless when other countries are also buying them, you are simply bullshitting as you do not have any basis for your claims.

I guess that's why Syria isn't using their S400, and RU soldiers are protecting it and keeping it inactive, while Israel attacks targets in Syria.

Just like how some countries opt to buy US arms they're buying influence, and not necessarily because the system is good. Just like how UK is throwing money at Ukraine to get them to buy Western arms and try to get in the way of our export.

I can't be arsed to explain all this to someone so stuck up to RTE. The only thing you can do is start accusing people of being against TR developing our own defence industry, but that just means you are running out of arguments to defend RTE.