TR Air Defence Programs

[Zafer]

This is a very valuable product as otherwise it is too hard for a rifleman to hit a drone. I have seen a champion shotgun shooter struggling to hit such a drone, maybe one out of every 10 shot hits.

They should try to make for smaller calibers too, down to 9 mm handgun calibers.

 

[Pokemonte13]

Tbf a lot of times these drones have no payload and are much more maneuverable and have better connection/ its still hard with real ones

 

[MonteCarlo]

Tbf a lot of times these drones have no payload and are much more maneuverable and have better connection/ its still hard with real ones

Yeah but they are also quite hard to control and have weird blast patterns. It you start equipping your soldiers with better counter measures you force the pilots to fly more finicky paths increasing the chance of the fpv missing its target or failling to correctly detonate. So it is beneficial even if you can't get a direct hit.

 

[Samba]

The 7.62 mm Anti-Drone Ammunition, developed by MKE engineers, successfully neutralised aerial threats during live-fire tests.

Compatible with existing firearms, this innovative ammunition provides infantry units with a rapid and effective response capability against mini and micro UAVs, as well as kamikaze drones.

With this technology, every weapon can become part of the air defence network when required.

Russia and Ukraine both will love that...

 

[Saithan]

No spec on the ammo just "Drone ammo" 7,62mm. They could be firing standard type for all we know

 

[emrebnc]

No spec on the ammo just "Drone ammo" 7,62mm. They could be firing standard type for all we know

There was a demonstration of the spread pattern though.

 

[boredaf]

I think this is a great budget option for the dual setup they show in the video, but, in infantry hands I am not convinced. How big the pellets will decide how lethal it is to the drone and how far it can travel but also limit how many they can fit inside and how big the spread is going to be; so they are going to solve that issue with volume of fire. But, an infantry can only carry so many magazines, which means either we are going to have to give a soldier or two in a squad anti-drone duty (in which case automatic shotguns would be far more effective imo) or, risk soldiers carrying less conventional ammo and even confuse the two and end up with the wrong ammo type at the wrong time.

 

[Sanchez]

Past and present of army air defence

 

[Sanchez]

Not "will be signed" but it's claimed. It'd a be a great boon for the program; let's see. Roketsan or a subsidiary could produce them in bulk to help Euro production for Euro and Ukrainian needs, while also getting them into Siper.

We simply do not have an ABM capability, and this would be a great stopgap until we do in 2030s. Latest news is that a German PAC-3 will replace the one Americans sent 2 months ago, probably so that the American battery can be sent to the Gulf.

"Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his French counterpart Emmanuel Macron are holding talks on a major air defense agreement that could pave the way for the purchase and joint production in Turkey of the French-Italian SAMP/T Mamba system, Intelligence Online reported....

The negotiations are taking place despite recent moves by Paris that have demonstrated support for Turkey’s regional rivals, including the renewal of the France-Greece defense pact in April and Macron’s public backing of Armenia’s pro-European government in May.

At the same time, the potential SAMP/T agreement, along with the new partnership between Turkish drone manufacturer Baykar and French company Safran, indicates that Paris increasingly views Turkey as a key factor in European security, weapons production, air defense, energy routes and NATO planning amid weapons shortages, Russia’s war in Ukraine, instability in the Middle East and uncertainty surrounding future U.S. commitments to European security. | BGNES "

Erdogan and Macron Discuss Major Air Defense Deal

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his French counterpart Emmanuel Macron are holding talks on a major air defense agreement that could pave the way for the purchase and joint production in

www.bgnes.com

 

[Pokemonte13]

"Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his French counterpart Emmanuel Macron are holding talks on a major air defense agreement that could pave the way for the purchase and joint production in Turkey of the French-Italian SAMP/T Mamba system, Intelligence Online reported....

The negotiations are taking place despite recent moves by Paris that have demonstrated support for Turkey’s regional rivals, including the renewal of the France-Greece defense pact in April and Macron’s public backing of Armenia’s pro-European government in May.

At the same time, the potential SAMP/T agreement, along with the new partnership between Turkish drone manufacturer Baykar and French company Safran, indicates that Paris increasingly views Turkey as a key factor in European security, weapons production, air defense, energy routes and NATO planning amid weapons shortages, Russia’s war in Ukraine, instability in the Middle East and uncertainty surrounding future U.S. commitments to European security. | BGNES "

Erdogan and Macron Discuss Major Air Defense Deal

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his French counterpart Emmanuel Macron are holding talks on a major air defense agreement that could pave the way for the purchase and joint production in

www.bgnes.com

This would likely have different effects
Turkish benefits:
- co production of aster missiles in turkey with turkish firms as sub contractors as well as co developers
- intergration of aster 30 (anti ballistic) in to siper and midlas
- ToT of technology for turkish use without constraints
French/Italian benefits:
- increased production capacity for aster/sampt utilising turkish production capacity
- money
- increase in development speed through turkish R&D
- Overall better competitiveness because faster delivery/faster development
Would be interesting to see if turkish produced components could end up in Greek missiles.
I can already hear them crying

 

[Yasar_TR]

"Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his French counterpart Emmanuel Macron are holding talks on a major air defense agreement that could pave the way for the purchase and joint production in Turkey of the French-Italian SAMP/T Mamba system, Intelligence Online reported....

The negotiations are taking place despite recent moves by Paris that have demonstrated support for Turkey’s regional rivals, including the renewal of the France-Greece defense pact in April and Macron’s public backing of Armenia’s pro-European government in May.

At the same time, the potential SAMP/T agreement, along with the new partnership between Turkish drone manufacturer Baykar and French company Safran, indicates that Paris increasingly views Turkey as a key factor in European security, weapons production, air defense, energy routes and NATO planning amid weapons shortages, Russia’s war in Ukraine, instability in the Middle East and uncertainty surrounding future U.S. commitments to European security. | BGNES "

Erdogan and Macron Discuss Major Air Defense Deal

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his French counterpart Emmanuel Macron are holding talks on a major air defense agreement that could pave the way for the purchase and joint production in

www.bgnes.com

SAMPT system’s Aster 30 B1NT missile has a range of 150+ km and an operational altitude of 25+ km. It uses Pif-Paf course correction system that allows the missile to make precise and quick high G turns to be able to perform a hit to kill strike on the target whilst not being affected by decoys. The system‘s extra long range radar tracks a SRBM or MRBM during its midcourse and targets it to hit it in terminal phase. It can intercept missiles like Zircon, Iskander and Iranian hypersonic ballistic missiles.
But it can not intercept IRBMs (like Russian Oreshnik) or ICBMs. These missiles need to be intercepted at midcourse and need exoatmospheric interceptors like SM3 or Arrow3 Missiles.

Nevertheless the Aster30B1NT missile has shown a 92% successful kill rate in certification trials on 1500km range MRBMs.
It is also THE missile to intercept hypersonic missiles like Zircon or Kinzhal. However it is doubtful that it can intercept MIRVs or an Iranian Fatah-2 that carries an HGV.

If an agreement is reached that contained TOT, it would be invaluable to us for developing our own exoatmospheric missiles like SM3.

Additionally, we will know how to fight against ships that has these missiles.

 

[dBSPL]

Looking at the SAMP/T Eurosam partnership and technology transfer negotiations, we shouldn't view this simply as a procurement of a standalone missile system. We really need to analyze what this means for the global positioning of our domestic Çelik Kubbe (Steel Dome) project. As Yaşar üstad mentioned, the technical capabilities of the Aster 30 B1NT missile and the potential for co-production could open up a significant operational runway when integrated into an overarching system of systems like Çelik Kubbe. On a legal and architectural level, this integration allows Türkiye's air defense framework to establish seamless -interoperability- between our domestic radar assets, and the HERİKKS/RADNET infrastructure. This approach makes it theoretically possible to distribute data from any sensor to the optimal effector, whether that means engaging an incoming threat with Aster missiles or deploying our domestic SİPER and HİSAR families based on the target profile.

This technical alignment also brings up an interesting angle regarding Çelik Kubbe's export potential within the NATO/NATO-aligned market. Integrating the SAMP/T system using Link-16 and Link-22 tactical data links acts as a real-world validation of Çelik Kubbe's software architecture and its capability to plug into the NATO Integrated Air and Missile Defense System (NATINAMDS). For NATO member states operating under tight budget constraints or facing production backlogs, a hybrid architecture like this could become a highly viable solution. These nations could deploy SAMP/T assets for upper-layer ballistic missile defense while integrating Çelik Kubbe's software layer and more cost-effective domestic missiles to handle high-volume threats in the lower and medium layers.

Ultimately, France and Italy's drive to clear up production bottlenecks combined with Türkiye's push for technology transfer could pave the way for a brand-new cooperation model in the European defense sector. Positioning Türkiye as a co-developer could elevate Çelik Kubbe from a regional solution to a validated software and systems architecture capable of integrating into the NATO collective defense ecosystem. Of course, projects of this scale always run into political friction, strict technology-sharing boundaries, and bureaucratic hurdles. However, given the urgent air defense and munitions shortages across Europe following the war in Ukraine, seeing how the market responds to this hybrid engineering model is going to be a highly critical geopolitical trend to watch.

 

[Pokemonte13]

SAMPT system’s Aster 30 B1NT missile has a range of 150+ km and an operational altitude of 25+ km. It uses Pif-Paf course correction system that allows the missile to make precise and quick high G turns to be able to perform a hit to kill strike on the target whilst not being affected by decoys. The system‘s extra long range radar tracks a SRBM or MRBM during its midcourse and targets it to hit it in terminal phase. It can intercept missiles like Zircon, Iskander and Iranian hypersonic ballistic missiles.
But it can not intercept IRBMs (like Russian Oreshnik) or ICBMs. These missiles need to be intercepted at midcourse and need exoatmospheric interceptors like SM3 or Arrow3 Missiles.

Nevertheless the Aster30B1NT missile has shown a 92% successful kill rate in certification trials on 1500km range MRBMs.
It is also THE missile to intercept hypersonic missiles like Zircon or Kinzhal. However it is doubtful that it can intercept MIRVs or an Iranian Fatah-2 that carries an HGV.

If an agreement is reached that contained TOT, it would be invaluable to us for developing our own exoatmospheric missiles like SM3.

Additionally, we will know how to fight against ships that has these missiles.

Still have some issues believing that 150km range

 

[Sanchez]

Minister Güler said we are evaluating to acquire SAMP/T and Patriot systems.

Türkiye'den Patriot ve SAMP-T için yeşil ışık! Bakan Güler açıkladı

Haber 7 - Milli Savunma Bakanı Yaşar Güler, Türkiye'nin hava savunma kapasitesini güçlendirmek amacıyla SAMP-T ve Patriot hava savunma sistemlerinin satın alınması dahil tüm seçeneklerin değerlendirildiğini açıkladı.

m.haber7.com

Oh boy. S400 second system is also in the cards for sure

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2071841898923254174

ASELSAN continues to make strategic investments to meet growing demand and further enhance its manufacturing capabilities.
As part of this commitment, ASELSAN has commissioned its “Smart Munitions and Underwater Systems Additional Production and Test Centers”, representing a total investment of USD 40 million and encompassing 17,360 square meters of indoor space.
The new facilities significantly strengthen the Company's robotics and automation infrastructure for the production of Air and Naval Defense Systems, enhancing manufacturing capacity, accelerating delivery performance, and further improving quality standards.

 

[MonteCarlo]

Minister Güler said we are evaluating to acquire SAMP/T and Patriot systems.

Türkiye'den Patriot ve SAMP-T için yeşil ışık! Bakan Güler açıkladı

Haber 7 - Milli Savunma Bakanı Yaşar Güler, Türkiye'nin hava savunma kapasitesini güçlendirmek amacıyla SAMP-T ve Patriot hava savunma sistemlerinin satın alınması dahil tüm seçeneklerin değerlendirildiğini açıkladı.

m.haber7.com

How are we planning to receive Patriots in a reasonable timeframe when even the European countries with long standing orders can't receive their orders?

 

[boredaf]

How are we planning to receive Patriots in a reasonable timeframe when even the European countries with long standing orders can't receive their orders?

We are not, they are just talking for the sake of talking. You can say you consider anything you want, doesn't mean anything.

 

[MonteCarlo]

First Hisar A launcher and more İHTAR C-uas systems to Air force plus new ALP-300G to land forces (should be third AFAIK).

Overall very good week in terms of Air defense deliveries. Only thing missing is a HİSAR-O delivery

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2072611153595785539

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2072616851230609719

 

[Pokemonte13]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2072639551831527898

This is a nice analysis
He says/guesses that truck Hisar A will serve together Trailer Korkut as shorad for siper systems.
Makes sense Siper has need of close protection as we have seen in Russia and this is the most economical answer for that maybe even some energy weapons will be integrated.

 

[Saithan]

At the demonstration attended by 64 participants from 24 countries, TOLGA SHORAD successfully neutralised drone threats, including Shahed-type, across seven different scenarios with a 100% success rate.

By integrating soft-kill and hard-kill capabilities through both mobile and fixed command-and-control centres, TOLGA delivered layered short-range air defence at ranges of up to 10,000 metres.

Detected the threat with radar and acoustic systems.
Identified and tracked the target with our electro-optical system.
Suppressed and neutralised the threat using our jammer system.
Neutralised the target at 1,000 metres with our vehicle-mounted and fixed-turret 20 mm weapon systems.
Conducted engagement at 300 metres with our vehicle-mounted and fixed-turret 12.7 mm QCB and 12.7 mm rotary weapon systems.

I'd really like it if Ukraine would send some of their drone specialist to perform against our AD systems, and get their input on how we could improve on them.

It'd be really awesome if we could deliver some Tolga systems to Ukraine.