TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[I_Love_F16]

Hearing TAI talk about this commercial passenger aircraft (that isn't a helicopter) worries me. I think competing in the commercial civil aviation sector against the Airbus-Boeing duopoly is a fool's game. Canadian, Russian, and Chinese (state) firms either almost or literally bankrupted themselves in their attempts.

It's like trying to build a new car brand that only builds ICE vehicles. Chinese brands were never able to build a decent ICE car, but they're on their way to become major players in the EV market. The only time TAI should even consider building a commercial civil passenger aircraft is when a massive paradigm shift occurs in the market, as was the case for the automotive sector.

For instance, the Comac C919 now costs just slightly less than the A320neo or B737 MAX, has less range, is less efficient, doesn't have the planned composite wing, and is filled to the brim with critical western components. China can afford such a project, we cannot. CR929, SSJ, and MC-21 are even more problematic. As for the existing legitimate smaller players: Bombardier divested from the commercial civil aviation sector, and Embraer is struggling to shift E2s (now competing with Airbus).

Besides ongoing projects, I would personally like to see TAI focus on:

- Navalization. Especially in developing a modern Seahawk alternative that massively undercuts Sikorsky.
- Larger military transport jets (JV preferably with Embraer, or at least Antonov)
- Following innovations in the sector like CFM's RISE or RR's UltraFan. Anticipate and prototype a next-generation commercial passenger aircraft, try to enter the market only then, and only if financially viable.
- Invest even more heavily in composite aerostructures, become (more) indispensable to the commercial and military aviation supply chain.

I would love to see Turkish Airlines fly a TAI airliner, but the financial and human resource health of TAI should be prioritized over national pride. Overextending ourselves is a recipe for failure.

Spot on.

 

[Spitfire9]

​

Menendez’s departure as chair does not guarantee that the United States will now sell Turkey F-16s, but it does open space for a fresh look at the apparent deal on the table. Since negotiations on Sweden’s accession began, it’s been widely assumed—but not openly stated—that the sale of F-16s would be a decisive factor in Turkey’s calculus. For a year, diplomats on both sides took pains to deny the two issues were linked. However, Erdoğan abandoned all pretext on September 26, stating that “if they [the United States] keep their promises, our parliament will keep its own promise as well.” In a statement at the Vilnius summit, Turkey has committed to sending Sweden’s accession to parliament and working to ensure its ratification.

If Turkiye does not approve Sweden joining NATO, it will not get an F-16 deal. If it does, a deal may still not get approved by the US Congress. However, I remember reading that if Congress blocks a proposal by the president, that can be challenged. If I remember correctly, 2/3 of the members (perhaps just the senators?) would have to be opposed to the president's proposal in order to defeat it. On that basis I guess the F-16 deal would probably go through. There are other issues apart from Sweden involved, so nothing is certain.

 

[boredaf]

Navalization. Especially in developing a modern Seahawk alternative that massively undercuts Sikorsky.
- Larger military transport jets (JV preferably with Embraer, or at least Antonov). Gain experience with larger jets.

I think these two points are extremely crucial for our military aviation. A large military transport plane that we can configure for other purposes, like maritime patrol or AEW&C or even a bomber for our larger missiles, would be indispensable for us.

And being able to produce our own naval helicopters would not only get rid of one of our worst dependencies but also open up a significant market for us.

 

[Quasar]

ok in relation to our ambitious plans for our Navy it seems that in addition to unmaned AEW&Cs ''eventually'' in the ''future'' a dedicated E2 Hawk eye type AEW&C will be a need especially for Navy or even may be for the Air force

 

[Sanchez]

Suffice to say, that will be left to drones for the navy. Something like a Merlin Crowsnest could also be interesting for T929 in the future.

 

[uçuyorum]

Remember that any aircraft you gonna land on Anadolu or advanced version will also have to fit in the elevator and hangar.

 

[Quasar]

-Anadolu is an alreadry existing platform not the future
- agreed that unmaned AEW&Cs and T929 are most feasible soluıtions

However, it also doest mean that the most feasible solutions that you have now will be also satisfactory solutions for your future requirements or problems, for that very reason I am not directly throwing E2 type to trash can yet and I belive it is worth studying

 

[Sanchez]

E-2D is the best platform that can be at that size, it’s venerable. Just think that currently we have no need for such a design on our ships and possibly will never have. There’s a reason why the French just went ahead and bought E-2s for their own carriers and will now replace them with E-2Ds.

For land based designs, sky is the limit.

 

[Afif]

The 'technical' part of Turkey's F-16 Block 70 procurement is complete​

Technical negotiations between Turkey and the USA regarding Turkey's procurement of F-16 Block 70 fighter jets have been completed. Ministry of National Defense sources made the statement.

In the statement made on the subject by the sources of the Ministry of National Defense, it was stated that the technical meetings of the delegations were completed and the procedures in the USA were expected to be completed. Sources said, “We want this process to be concluded positively and quickly as soon as possible. "We express once again that this issue should not be subject to any conditions," he said.

Turkey's procurement of F-16 Block 70 fighter jets includes 40 new F-16 fighter jets and the upgrade of 79 of the existing F-16s to the Block 70 level. Additionally, it is claimed that the scope of supply includes a large number of spare parts and ammunition.

According to Reuters, the approximate cost of the supply is 20 billion dollars. However, defense industry researchers evaluate that the $20 billion claim is not very realistic.

F-16 Block 70 Viper Fighter Aircraft​

Jets that have undergone F-16 Block 70/72 modernization are generally classified as 4++ generation, as they will be subject to hardware and structural upgrades compared to other F-16s. The most important step in Viper modernization is the replacement of the existing radar system with the APG-83 Active Phased Array (AESA) radar produced by Northrop Grumman.

With the integration of the APG-83 radar, the situational awareness of F-16s will increase significantly.

In addition, in F-16 Block 70/72; There will be a 6” x 8” CPD (high resolution screen), Automatic Ground Collision Avoidance System (GCAS) and more technological weapon stations that enable more effective use of the AESA radar and control of pod data.

In addition, new ammunition and missile systems, especially AGM-88E, will be integrated into the aircraft. New generation electronic warfare equipment, the IRST pod and new targeting pods will be available for use on the aircraft.

---

Türkiye'nin F-16 Blok 70 tedarikinde 'teknik' kısım tamam

Türkiye'nin F-16 Blok 70 savaş uçağı tedarikinde, Türkiye ile ABD arasındaki teknik görüşmeler tamamlandı. Açıklamayı, MSB kaynakları yaptı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

Note- Looks like they are going through with the purchase. Unfortunately, if it is realized then a significant portion of Turkish air force will continue to depend on American goodwill well into the late 2030.
Unless USA allow Turkey to integrate its indeginous weapons and manufacture spare parts. Which seems very unlikely with F-16 Block 70 in the current context.

Let's hope instead of modernizing 79 old F-16s to block 70 configeration, they can also be upgraded with Ozgur program like other F-16s in the fleet.

@Sanchez @Yasar @Kartal1 et al.

 

[Maximilien Robespierre]

The 'technical' part of Turkey's F-16 Block 70 procurement is complete​

View attachment 62555

Technical negotiations between Turkey and the USA regarding Turkey's procurement of F-16 Block 70 fighter jets have been completed. Ministry of National Defense sources made the statement.

In the statement made on the subject by the sources of the Ministry of National Defense, it was stated that the technical meetings of the delegations were completed and the procedures in the USA were expected to be completed. Sources said, “We want this process to be concluded positively and quickly as soon as possible. "We express once again that this issue should not be subject to any conditions," he said.

Turkey's procurement of F-16 Block 70 fighter jets includes 40 new F-16 fighter jets and the upgrade of 79 of the existing F-16s to the Block 70 level. Additionally, it is claimed that the scope of supply includes a large number of spare parts and ammunition.

According to Reuters, the approximate cost of the supply is 20 billion dollars. However, defense industry researchers evaluate that the $20 billion claim is not very realistic.

F-16 Block 70 Viper Fighter Aircraft​

View attachment 62556

Jets that have undergone F-16 Block 70/72 modernization are generally classified as 4++ generation, as they will be subject to hardware and structural upgrades compared to other F-16s. The most important step in Viper modernization is the replacement of the existing radar system with the APG-83 Active Phased Array (AESA) radar produced by Northrop Grumman.

With the integration of the APG-83 radar, the situational awareness of F-16s will increase significantly.

In addition, in F-16 Block 70/72; There will be a 6” x 8” CPD (high resolution screen), Automatic Ground Collision Avoidance System (GCAS) and more technological weapon stations that enable more effective use of the AESA radar and control of pod data.

In addition, new ammunition and missile systems, especially AGM-88E, will be integrated into the aircraft. New generation electronic warfare equipment, the IRST pod and new targeting pods will be available for use on the aircraft.

---

Türkiye'nin F-16 Blok 70 tedarikinde 'teknik' kısım tamam

Türkiye'nin F-16 Blok 70 savaş uçağı tedarikinde, Türkiye ile ABD arasındaki teknik görüşmeler tamamlandı. Açıklamayı, MSB kaynakları yaptı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

Note- Looks like they are going through with the purchase. Unfortunately, if it is realized then a significant portion of Turkish air force will continue to depend on American goodwill well into the late 2030.
Unless USA allow Turkey to integrate its indeginous weapons and manufacture spare parts. Which seems very unlikely with F-16 Block 70 in the current context.

Let's hope instead of modernizing 79 old F-16s to block 70 configeration, they can also be upgraded with Ozgur program like other F-16s in the fleet.

@Sanchez @Yasar @Kartal1 et al.

We don't even have the MURAD radar yet how do you expect us to modernize everything with ozgur?

 

[Afif]

We don't even have the MURAD radar yet how do you expect us to modernize everything with ozgur?

In time of course, SSB said other F16 blocks in the fleet can be upgraded with Ozgur. So I am taking their word for it.

 

[TheInsider]

We don't even have the MURAD radar yet how do you expect us to modernize everything with ozgur?

Don't be surprised if the unready Özgür upgrade achieves readiness faster than the ready Viper upgrade. We are dealing with the US here.

 

[Maximilien Robespierre]

Don't be surprised if the unready Özgür upgrade achieves readiness faster than the ready Viper upgrade. We are dealing with the US here.

I rather have a finished and matured project like Block 70, It will take time for özgür program to mature, We need these jets ASAP we already blown our foot with F35 procurement.

 

[Sanchez]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1653343155385782272

5th retrofitted A400M is delivered to HvKK.

https://x.com/defence_turk/status/1720014721376534573?s=46&t=7tiosvwkaTbbgoSMbRgrzA

 

[BalkanTurk90]

5th retrofitted A400M is delivered to HvKK.

https://x.com/defence_turk/status/1720014721376534573?s=46&t=7tiosvwkaTbbgoSMbRgrzA

Why those aircrafts needs retofitted when those transport aircraft are modern just few years old?
What did they change to aircraft?

 

[Sanchez]

Why those aircrafts needs retofitted when those transport aircraft are modern just few years old?
What did they change to aircraft?

I asked the same question few months back, under the quoted message above. Last A400M Airbus delivered to us isn’t set for the retrofit so I’m thinking it’s in relation to a new feature or a change. Surprisingly no info on any Turkish sources regarding what it entails and absolutely no mention of a retrofit in any English language sources. Literally have no idea.

 

[Ripley]

I asked the same question few months back, under the quoted message above. Last A400M Airbus delivered to us isn’t set for the retrofit so I’m thinking it’s in relation to a new feature or a change. Surprisingly no info on any Turkish sources regarding what it entails and absolutely no mention of a retrofit in any English language sources. Literally have no idea.

Same here. Did a lot of search and all I got was retrofit news but no description of what the ”retrofit” contains. One military site said something like “hardware and software“ retrofit. It‘s still a vague description and couldn’t confirm it anywhere else.
Why the secrecy, seriously?

 

[Tornadoss]

Why those aircrafts needs retofitted when those transport aircraft are modern just few years old?
What did they change to aircraft?

It might be DIRCM.

TAI installs missile destroyer on A400M aircraft

Turkish Aerospace Industries has built and integrated a directional infrared countermeasure system for the A400M multinational heavy transport aircraft, the company announced.

www.defensenews.com

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

Does anyone want to add more about the training of the Pilots of the Turkish Air force, as well as the combat readiness that the air force possesses?


Quote:

The academic training is 174 hours in total, and pilot candidates receive the courses along with flight training. These academic courses consist of 44 hours of the Initial Flight Training phase, 112 hours of the Basic Flight Training phase, and 18 hours of the Advanced Flight Training phase.

Initial Training For Combat Readiness Turkish Air Force Pilot Training Program

www.defenceturkey.com

@Kartal1

 

[Ripley]

It might be DIRCM.

TAI installs missile destroyer on A400M aircraft

Turkish Aerospace Industries has built and integrated a directional infrared countermeasure system for the A400M multinational heavy transport aircraft, the company announced.

www.defensenews.com

Cool. Ok, read the link you provided but can’t see anything regarding the manufacturer of DIRCM. Do we know who made it?