TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Fatman17]

No F-35, F-16, or Typhoon, so Turkey is looking at the JF-17

Turkey, a major NATO nation, has been striving to upgrade its arsenal of fighter jets in recent years. The American F-16 has been at the top of the list.

bulgarianmilitary.com

Can anyone confirm this news item

 

[TheInsider]

No F-35, F-16, or Typhoon, so Turkey is looking at the JF-17

Turkey, a major NATO nation, has been striving to upgrade its arsenal of fighter jets in recent years. The American F-16 has been at the top of the list.

bulgarianmilitary.com

Can anyone confirm this news item

Fake news.

 

[Barry]

"you subvert the democratic process so we get what we want"

 

[Baryshx]

President Erdoğan stated that in their last phone call, US President Biden told him,
"You take this (Sweden's NATO membership) out of the Parliament, in the same way, I will pass this (F-16 sale) from Congress."

Funny and shitty trade. F35 should be our condition. Good relations with India, which bought the S400.

 

[Spitfire9]

Funny and shitty trade. F35 should be our condition. Good relations with India, which bought the S400.

What is achieved by making demands that you know will not be met? F-35 is gone, 100% finito. That is not yet the case with F-16. It is a better idea to try to get what it may be possible to get than to waste time trying to get what it is not possible to get - and in the process prejudicing further any small remaining chance there is of getting F-16.

 

[boredaf]

What is achieved by making demands that you know will not be met? F-35 is gone, 100% finito. That is not yet the case with F-16. It is a better idea to try to get what it may be possible to get than to waste time trying to get what it is not possible to get - and in the process prejudicing further any small remaining chance there is of getting F-16.

Once again, we are at fault and not the country that is not only keeping the jets that were already made for us in a hangar but also refusing to return our money to us. Honestly, this forum can hide the usernames and I would know which post is yours right away.

 

[Nutuk]

I would not even purchase the F16, with such relation buying F16 will do no any good

 

[DBdev]

W

What is achieved by making demands that you know will not be met? F-35 is gone, 100% finito. That is not yet the case with F-16. It is a better idea to try to get what it may be possible to get than to waste time trying to get what it is not possible to get - and in the process prejudicing further any small remaining chance there is of getting F-16.

Our NATO membership may have started as a means to try to protect us from USSR but now it is hopefully there to protect us from what these pack of western hyenas are doing to almost every other free Muslim country. We rather have our money back we paid long ago for unkept F-35 delivery promise but we don't expect even that much of a decency from bunch of animals currently making another crusader dog pack against Yemen this time, while giving Israel handful of nukes worth bombs so that Jews can finish of their 7 decades long Palestinian genocide campaign.

 

[Baryshx]

What is achieved by making demands that you know will not be met? F-35 is gone, 100% finito. That is not yet the case with F-16. It is a better idea to try to get what it may be possible to get than to waste time trying to get what it is not possible to get - and in the process prejudicing further any small remaining chance there is of getting F-16.

It's not gone or finished. They can give it if they want, everything is in their hands.

 

[Spitfire9]

Once again, we are at fault and not the country that is not only keeping the jets that were already made for us in a hangar but also refusing to return our money to us. Honestly, this forum can hide the usernames and I would know which post is yours right away.

I did not say Turkiye was at fault. US has made it extremely clear that it will not supply F-35 so it is pointless asking for that. You don't seem to grasp that I was suggesting avoiding reducing the slim chance of procuring F-16 still further. Does Turkiye want to optimise its chances of getting F-16 or not?

PS If the US owes money for the F-35 delivered to Turkiye in the US, they should be prepared to return it. Turning up and addressing the US as a western hyena is unlikely to end with a successful outcome.

 

[DBdev]

Türkiye spent 1.5% GDP on defense last year. One of the lowest in NATO. So money is an issue too not just embargos.

If it was me I wouldn't buy anything from west and I would pre pay part of those tens of billions to our own defense companies and force them to hire 10 or even 100 times more people. Russia for example while employing 3 million people and planning to add 1 more million to that just for drone production. America is like almost two times that. Our defense ministry is bragging about employing 82.000 engineers while %9 are JOBLESS.

Roketsan for example was given around half a billion Euro contract while it should have been 5 billion euros at least. Quarter of it pre paid to speed up hiring and production. If we spend all that cash we are planning to gift to our enemies in the west, on layered air defense instead of ultra expensive western jets we wouldn't need a single additional fighter plane. That same amount would suffice to protect us from all enemy fighters, ballistic missiles and even the Greek F-35s and their SCALP missiles.

 

[DBdev]

I did not say Turkiye was at fault. US has made it extremely clear that it will not supply F-35 so it is pointless asking for that. You don't seem to grasp that I was suggesting avoiding reducing the slim chance of procuring F-16 still further. Does Turkiye want to optimise its chances of getting F-16 or not?

Same slimy crap British did to us by stealing our money by not delivering our warships after getting paid and by confiscating Turkish territory Cyprus. Brazen THEFT by bunch of hyenas.

We asked for our money back many many times. Biden said instead of money, let's sell you F-16s. What were we supposed to say? They are just playing with us for half a decade, while sitting on our cash, just like EU is playing with us for 7 decades. USD lost half of its value against gold in the past couple of years due to constant money printing. If we hadn't pay them beforehand it would have been close to 5 billion dollars worth gold by now, because our national bank invests in gold since western supported FETO coup, not dollars.

 

[boredaf]

Türkiye spent 1.5% GDP on defense last year. One of the lowest in NATO. So money is an issue too not just embargos.

If it was me I wouldn't buy anything from west and I would pre pay part of those tens of billions to our own defense companies and force them to hire 10 or even 100 times more people. Russia for example while employing 3 million people and planning to add 1 more million to that just for drone production. America is like almost two times that. Our defense ministry is bragging about employing 82.000 engineers while %9 are JOBLESS.

Roketsan for example was given around half a billion Euro contract while it should have been 5 billion euros at least. Quarter of it pre paid to speed up hiring and production. If we spend all that cash we are planning to gift to our enemies in the west, on layered air defense instead of ultra expensive western jets we wouldn't need a single additional fighter plane. That same amount would suffice to protect us from all enemy fighters, ballistic missiles and even the Greek F-35s and their SCALP missiles.

That's just absurd. You can't create skilled labourers out of your ass and hire them. You can't just increase the number of people employed by the defence industry because this or that country have more. If they don't exist, then they don't exist and you are shit out of luck, end of story. On top of that, you also can't force people to work for them either, funny how that works.

 

[DBdev]

That's just absurd. You can't create skilled labourers out of your ass and hire them. You can't just increase the number of people employed by the defence industry because this or that country have more. If they don't exist, then they don't exist and you are shit out of luck, end of story. On top of that, you also can't force people to work for them either, funny how that works.

Currently our engineers are doing jobs a high school graduate can do. Roketsan for example how hard it is to build bunch of missiles illiterate Houthis in Yemen are doing the same type of rockets our 2 doctorate degrees engineers are doing by hand in Roketsan, Aselsan videos. Besides there is a thing called learning on the job. What? 4 million people in Russia are all rocket scientists?

 

[mehmed beg]

I remember few months ago on Savunmasanayist, director of Havelsna visited LM in order to have some software access. It was years ago as I could have understood.
His request was refused and he reports that he was plainly told " We are not selling you the planes, but sorties " . The question was , what kind of sorties? Flying around? I don't think for a second that those "sorties " include anywhere close to the Aegean Sea or Estern Mediterran, not much in Black Sea or Syrian Borders( you see , the Russians might suss how f35 operates), not Northern Iraq border. Maybe but just maybe the sorties could be had nearl the Iranian border. Frankly, considering the history of the arms procurement I doubt that USA ever had an intention to sell F35 to Turkey. Maybe at the earliest 2035. If someone doesn't want to sell the air defence system, for double of money, which it is usually sold, then how will they sell you something even better?

 

[Yasar_TR]

Re : Typhoon sales to Turkey and Saudi Arabia, (dated 30th Nov)

Excerpt taken from The Financial Times:

Quote:
Berlin’s change of tack could prove diplomatically awkward: Turkey, a Nato ally, has also asked to buy 40 Typhoons, and Germany has refused. Making the case that Riyadh is a more sound regional partner than Ankara and deserving of a big arms deal risks aggravating tense relations with Turkey. In a sign of the mounting external pressure on Berlin, Britain this month resubmitted an earlier offer to sell 48 new Typhoon aircraft to Saudi, three people familiar with the situation confirmed. The offer includes details of what support and training would be provided by the UK and its main defence group BAE Systems over the lifespan of the jets. A promise to eventually manufacture the aircraft in the kingdom is also included, the people said.
Unquote.

This is how our close ally Germany sees us. “ less dependable than Saudi Arabia.“

It is interesting to note that a promise of production of the jets in Saudi Arabia is also given.

One can not help but think if Turkey done away with the 79 upgrade kits and 40 F16s, and upped he order for Typhoons to 80 + 40 planes , totalling 120, would UK agree to manufacture these in Tusas? If so what would the timeline be? Can UK, Italy and Spain fill in the void left by the loss of 33% German contribution?

Here is another excerpt taken from The Daily Express:

Quote:
“in the event of World War Three then clearly the UK would be able to restart or ramp up Typhoon production here in Britain".

A Government spokesman said: “When considering any potential export of Eurofighter, we work closely with the governments of Germany, Italy and Spain, in line with the commitments each nation has made to support the others’ exports.
Unquote.

So;
1. Each country of the consortium has committed to support the others’ export sales.
2. If needed UK can manufacture the complete plane in Britain.
3. Or alternatively set up a manufacturing line in the country that are buying the planes.

These events show that Germany can not be a dependable defence partner and an ally. Our future dealings with them should reflect that sentiment!

 

[Merzifonlu]

These events show that Germany can not be a dependable defence partner and an ally. Our future dealings with them should reflect that sentiment!

This is nothing new. We have known this since the 1990s. Some Europeans are just beginning to understand. The same is true for the USA. That is why we are taking these two "allies" out of the supply chain in our arms supply. Most of the task has been accomplished, little remains.

 

[Fatman17]

To my honorable Turkish members. Can someone update me on the status of delivery of 52 Super Mushak basic trainer to the TuAF. Thanks

 

[Fatman17]

To my honorable Turkish members. Can someone update me on the status of delivery of 52 Super Mushak basic trainer to the TuAF. Thanks

 

[Nutuk]

To my honorable Turkish members. Can someone update me on the status of delivery of 52 Super Mushak basic trainer to the TuAF. Thanks

Good question, we do not hear much about that anymore.

After some initial deliveries we stopped seeing any news regarding Super Mushak. Could be that it is halted since T_129 to Pakistan is also on halt, i do not know and speculate here.