TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Yasar_TR]

Reading through the various posts here, it seems that most are looking at Turkish Airforce’s future development picture, through 4th generation air warfare glasses.
We are building a very potent and a multi purpose 5th generation aircraft. Although originally it was envisaged to replace our interceptor F16s, they are now a multi purpose aircraft. Once operational and in right quantities with indigenous engines and BURFIS, they will be far ahead of any aircraft in the region, even Israel’s F35s.
They can eradicate any airforce and AD systems in the area, clearing the skies for our unmanned stealth jets to do as they please together with the slower UCAVs.

Why send a boy to do a man’s job. Sending F16s to face other f16s and SU35s and Rafales is the wrong thing to do.
Once we have 300 KAANs, everything else, including f16V70 and Typhoons, become obsolete. OK! Until they become totally obsolete, they may be used to fill any gaps in the inventory. But in a next generation aircraft warfare scenario, 4th generation planes don’t really have any place.

 

[Turkic]

I doubt that we will produce and use more than 150-200 TAI KAAN for our own needs, the long-term maintenance and operating costs would simply be too high.

The thing is our defence budget is 3 times of what it was 2 years ago. Where do you think all these money will go ? And it should increase more to catch rising gdp because our new earthshaker wants a defence budget of 5% of gdp. We won't do everything Trump says but it should increase anyways to catch NATO 2% of gdp goal if our gdp keeps rising. We can surely afford their costs.

 

[Angry Turk !!!]

The thing is our defence budget is 3 times of what it was 2 years ago. Where do you think all these money will go ? And it should increase more to catch rising gdp because our new earthshaker wants a defence budget of 5% of gdp. We won't do everything Trump says but it should increase anyways to catch NATO 2% of gdp goal if our gdp keeps rising. We can surely afford their costs.

2% is pathetic anyway. Crank that sucka up to 5%, imagine only investing 2% of your GDP for your countries safety...

 

[boredaf]

Why send a boy to do a man’s job. Sending F16s to face other f16s and SU35s and Rafales is the wrong thing to do.
Once we have 300 KAANs, everything else, including f16V70 and Typhoons, become obsolete. OK! Until they become totally obsolete, they may be used to fill any gaps in the inventory. But in a next generation aircraft warfare scenario, 4th generation planes don’t really have any place.

5th gen planes are expensive to fly and maintain, not to mention produce, and Kaan won't be any different. While I agree with you that once we have Kaan, it should (and all likelihood will) counter any threat we face from other jets, there are many other tasks that we may want a jet doing instead of a drone yet still wouldn't really need a 5th gen plane. They'll be here to stay for quite a while imo, just as F-4s have for so long.

2% is pathetic anyway. Crank that sucka up to 5%, imagine only investing 2% of your GDP for your countries safety...

I don't think you realise what you're asking for here. 5% is an insanely high number that not even US itself kept to, even all through the Cold War. That is just Trump's fuck off number because he knows nobody can just spend that much money on defence, not even US, without rest of their social spending going into cardiac arrest and risking their whole economy.

 

[TR_123456]

2% is pathetic anyway. Crank that sucka up to 5%, imagine only investing 2% of your GDP for your countries safety...

No its not,depends on the country.
Turkish 2% is 10% in any Western European country.
It is about the worth of the 2%.
Why do you think they never talk about NATO's second biggest Armed Forces when talking about the 2% demand?
We produce,operate,maintain cheaper then all other NATO countries.

 

[Angry Turk !!!]

No its not,depends on the country.
Turkish 2% is 10% in any Western European country.
It is about the worth of the 2%.
Why do you think they never talk about NATO's second biggest Armed Forces when talking about the 2% demand?
We produce,operate,maintain cheaper then all other NATO countries.

I know that 2% in Türkiye gets you a lot more than in western european countries. But western european countries don't have terrorist and crazy fucks as neighbours, that all hate your guts and on top of it we have similar people inside the Country.

So. Turkish 2% or not is not enough. Turkish 5%, that's what we need. How many Korkuts do we have again? And that is just one example of a thousand+

 

[Huelague]

Once operational and in right quantities with indigenous engines and BURFIS, they will be far ahead of any aircraft in the region, even Israel’s F35s.

Can you elaborate in which way and parameters please?

 

[Yasar_TR]

Can you elaborate in which way and parameters please?

BÜRFİS (Bütünleşik RF Sistemi) (Integrated RF system) is a group and sets of radars and sensors that work together as one unit made out of over 2000 GaN based Aesa radar modules that are all around KAAN’s body. This gives KAAN an unprecedented level of situational awareness. With BURFIS It will also have a complement of sensor suites, like EOTS, IRST, DAS and MWS. In addition to it’s Aesa radar’s functions, also included are the electronic warfare capabilities such as wideband spectrum monitoring, directional jamming, and synthetic-aperture radar (SAR) imaging modes, including ISAR, dot-SAR, and strip-SAR. The system also integrates cognitive operational mechanisms and neural network-based decision support systems with extensive use of AI based technologies. Thus with such sensor fusion and autonomy and Improved data-link capabilities for network-enabled warfare, KAAN will be a most formidable fighting machine.
No 5th generation jet currently has anything close to this capability.

Add to all the above, the indigenously manufactured weapon systems whose details are not known to our adversaries , like ramjet powered BVR a2a missile Gökhan and air to ground precision strike missiles like Akbaba and SOM-J, etc ; Then you have a true winner in your hand.

A KAAN in it’s latest guise with TF36000 turbofan engines, should be able to supercruise in excess of 1.5 Mach and hit 2 Mach top speed (something f35 can’t do) .

F35 currently uses a relatively inferior GaAs based 1600 module Aesa Radar. There is a GaN based new radar in the pipeline for F35. But we don’t know when it will be available.

KAAN, even with it’s f110 engines, can give a run for F35’s money.

KAAN is a souped up f35 in an F22 body. Once it has it’s indigenous engines, it will be a monster of a plane. With the radar and sensors it has on board, no planes owned by any country in our region can outmatch it.

 

[Huelague]

BÜRFİS (Bütünleşik RF Sistemi) (Integrated RF system) is a group and sets of radars and sensors that work together as one unit made out of over 2000 GaN based Aesa radar modules that are all around KAAN’s body. This gives KAAN an unprecedented level of situational awareness. With BURFIS It will also have a complement of sensor suites, like EOTS, IRST, DAS and MWS. In addition to it’s Aesa radar’s functions, also included are the electronic warfare capabilities such as wideband spectrum monitoring, directional jamming, and synthetic-aperture radar (SAR) imaging modes, including ISAR, dot-SAR, and strip-SAR. The system also integrates cognitive operational mechanisms and neural network-based decision support systems with extensive use of AI based technologies. Thus with such sensor fusion and autonomy and Improved data-link capabilities for network-enabled warfare, KAAN will be a most formidable fighting machine.
No 5th generation jet currently has anything close to this capability.

Add to all the above, the indigenously manufactured weapon systems whose details are not known to our adversaries , like ramjet powered BVR a2a missile Gökhan and air to ground precision strike missiles like Akbaba and SOM-J, etc ; Then you have a true winner in your hand.

A KAAN in it’s latest guise with TF36000 turbofan engines, should be able to supercruise in excess of 1.5 Mach and hit 2 Mach top speed (something f35 can’t do) .

F35 currently uses a relatively inferior GaAs based 1600 module Aesa Radar. There is a GaN based new radar in the pipeline for F35. But we don’t know when it will be available.

KAAN, even with it’s f110 engines, can give a run for F35’s money.

KAAN is a souped up f35 in an F22 body. Once it has it’s indigenous engines, it will be a monster of a plane. With the radar and sensors it has on board, no planes owned by any country in our region can outmatch it.

Thanks for answering, bro.
RCS of ~0.1m, is that still right for Kaan?

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Hopefully because we will need this power from 2028/29 with F-110 engines and from 2031/32 with the TEI engine, Israel has already received an urgent recommendation from the Nagel Commission that Turkey is the new Iran in their eyes.

The Greeks are largely partially isolated in the EU, they will certainly sooner or later seek deeper cooperation with Israel/Armenia in security, military and political terms.

That is why the pressure for peace and the disarmament of the PKK, Turkey cannot face 3-5 opponents at the same time, because if they sense weakness, Israel, Greece/Armenia, Russia/Iran will come at the same time to destabilize Turkey.

Turkey must arm itself to the teeth, it has no other choice.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Thanks for answering, bro.
RCS of ~0.1m, is that still right for Kaan?

RCS values are arbitrary at this stage. The plane has all the parameters that conforms to low observability as it is. But it hasn’t got the RAM paint on yet. We don’t know how much improvement that will provide. Indigenous engines should have a positive effect as well.

There are various papers on RCS and stealth. I found the below paper which mentions KAAN. But I am suspicious about how scientifically correct and relevant this paper can be to the real life KAAN performance. Until we have all the facts in hand anyone can do is conjecture. (Any values that are mentioned about F35 are also arbitrary as LM has not provided any real figures as far as I know)

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Fazil-Altay/publication/376682089_TF-23_KAAN_TURKISH_5th_Gen_Fighter_Jet/links/658358483c472d2e8e773c7d/TF-23-KAAN-TURKISH-5th-Gen-Fighter-Jet.pdf?origin=publication_detail&_tp=eyJjb250ZXh0Ijp7ImZpcnN0UGFnZSI6InB1YmxpY2F0aW9uIiwicGFnZSI6InB1YmxpY2F0aW9uRG93bmxvYWQiLCJwcmV2aW91c1BhZ2UiOiJwdWJsaWNhdGlvbiJ9fQ

 

[Sanchez]

Per Özbek, HvKK and RAF chiefs also discussed the sale of ex-RAF C-130Js. Either the scope of the deal is lowered from 10-12 to 5 or this is just the first phase. So this is still not a done deal.

This previous news is now deleted from his website, and SSist says number is 12, again.

Why do I even bother...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1895399481556042210

 

[Fairon]

This previous news is now deleted from his website, and SSist says number is 12, again.

Why do I even bother...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1895399481556042210

Well there is a posibility that news of 5 aircraft acquisition was a part of the negotiation. Maybe that the deal is more to our liking , the number is up to 12 again.

 

[Huelague]

What do you think, is it likely that Kaan are tested (RCS) on S-400?

 

[boredaf]

What do you think, is it likely that Kaan are tested (RCS) on S-400?

We have better radars in service right now, there is no need to even turn that piece of garbage on.

 

[Khagan1923]

We have better radars in service right now, there is no need to even turn that piece of garbage on.

Not only do we have better radars nowadays thanks to Aselsan but who also knows what that garbage can transmits to the russians.

 

[boredaf]

Not only do we have better radars nowadays thanks to Aselsan but who also knows what that garbage can transmits to the russians.

That is a (distant imo) possibility but I'm willing to bet that we have taken it apart a few times and took a real long look under the hood already and learned how to stop that from happening.

 

[Sanchez]

Multiple KC-135s, A400s and (per claims 5) F-16s flew over Italy and Spain, landing in the Azores today to rest and refuel. They are probably going to US for Red Flag 25-2. First time since 2016.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1895396228797780206

 

[Hannibal]

In the future they should focus on buying more A400m as it can do both tactical and strategic airlift. And eventually completely replace C130s.

Less parts, less maintenance training and less dependency on USA.

 

[TR_123456]

In the future they should focus on buying more A400m as it can do both tactical and strategic airlift. And eventually completely replace C130s.

Less parts, less maintenance training and less dependency on USA.

They are in a different category,you need both types.