TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Khagan1923]

The US is retiring 13 C-130H if some of them are still useable they could make short term replacements for our C-130Bs….

 

[Yasar_TR]

The US is retiring 13 C-130H if some of them are still useable they could make short term replacements for our C-130Bs….

C130H is the legacy platform model that has been in service many years. Knowing how US would use them, they must be at the end of their lives. Most likely will be replaced by more efficient, modern avionics fitted and cost effective C130J models.
Purchase of 12 or so C130Js from RAF is a better move. (They operate with crew of 3 rather than 5 of H model)

 

[zio]

We can see how good is the American F-16 with have glass on AE25

 

[Khagan1923]

C130H is the legacy platform model that has been in service many years. Knowing how US would use them, they must be at the end of their lives. Most likely will be replaced by more efficient, modern avionics fitted and cost effective C130J models.
Purchase of 12 or so C130Js from RAF is a better move. (They operate with crew of 3 rather than 5 of H model)

Well ya but our Bs are older and in need of replacement oif they have still live left and come without any cost they could be cheap Short Term replacements.

Those 12 C-130J of which there is again radio silence won’t be nearly enough. And there seems no interest in additional A400M orders 🫠

Something needs to happen pur A400 are barely 10 years old and are getting hammered

 

[zio]

What is this?

 

[Sanchez]

What is this? View attachment 76140

F-16 Özgür cockpit with a T-38 at the background.

 

[Pokemonte13]

F-16 Özgür cockpit with a T-38 at the background.

not f16

 

[Sanchez]

I thought this was the photo released 2 months ago, didn't even look at the mid mounted stick, thanks

 

[Spitfire9]

Rüstungsindustrie: Eurofighter-Export an die Türkei steht kurz vor Zustimmung​

Die Ampel-Regierung hatte den von Großbritannien geplanten Kampfjet-Export an Ankara noch blockiert. Die Regierung unter Kanzler Merz will dem Geschäft nun offenbar nicht mehr im Weg stehen.


"Eurofighter export to Turkey is close to approval
The traffic light coalition had blocked Britain's planned export of fighter jets to Ankara. The government under Chancellor Merz apparently no longer wants to stand in the way of the deal."

 

[Yasar_TR]

Breaking News: Germany’s green light on Eurofighter Multirole Aircraft sale empowers Türkiye’s air force modernization

Breaking News: Germany’s green light on Eurofighter Multirole Aircraft sale empowers Türkiye’s air force modernization

armyrecognition.com

According to above article, finally on 26th June Germany has given the green light for the Typhoons for Turkey. It is up to the politicians and technical guys to make sure the purchase goes further now.

 

[harris]

Then there will be other possibilities to get engines elsewhere as an interim solution, you act as if there are no more alternatives on the market.
The Shenyang WS-10 Block C or D, for example has FADEC (this is based on the CFM56 engine which is essentially the core of the F101/F-110 family) it comes quite close to the F-110 in terms of performance and durability parameters, or even slightly above it, while at the same time it is only slightly longer than the F-110, the weight and diameter are about the same.
The Chinese would probably even offer a technology transfer, and quickly deliver e.g. 80 engines.
Just to drive a wedge within NATO that they distrust Turkey, which they have always done, see the sanctions and embargoes in the past by the US & EU.

To be clear, the US & EU are not friends and never will be.
If they could and if the damage to themselves was not so great, they would have wanted to break up Turkey in several pieces long ago. Only the massive fear and absolute resistance keeps them from doing so.

China will not sell ws10 to Turkey, technology transfer is a typical Turkish day dream
In the eye of china, nato is just a bunch of rubbish except USA
Turkey is not important for china

 

[Sanchez]

Don't they only quote Handelsblatt?

Yup, that's where all these positive ones came out in the last 2 days. It still doesn't mean a single thing until it's signed and order placed.

 

[Yasar_TR]

China will not sell ws10 to Turkey
In the eye of china, nato is just rubbish except USA
Turkey is not important for china

That is a very short sighted and demeaning view. You need to elaborate on such an aggressive statement.

For China, every country is important. They are trying to establish themselves in a world where the dominant force is USA and it’s allies.

Majority of students in best western universities are Chinese. Why? Because they know they are not at the Wstern educational level yet. But they are catching up. Those western universities are all in NATO member countries.

Even if China wanted to sell WS10, would/could Turkey buy that engine?
China doesn’t sell turbofan engines to anyone yet. They are not at a sellable maturity level. Where as western engines last 6-8000 hours, Chinese equivalents manage around 500-1500 (higher number according to Chinese sources) hours.

Turkiye is very important for China. It is at the gateway of East and West. Strategically it is placed in a very sensitive position. No serious country can brush aside Türkiye.

Nato, in spite of its shortcomings is a formidable force and the members that constitute it are much richer economically than China. Chinese GDP is around 18 trillion dollars. Nato population without USA is around 640 million and its GDP without USA is 25 trillion dollars. (With USA it is 53trillion dollars)

No country and leader with intelligence will discard Nato and its member states and take them for granted.

 

[Sanchez]

Well even then, we can't be sure until those jets fly with our roundel. Oh wait, F-35 already flew with our roundel. Also we did an initial payment for Viper...
All our purchases turn into "arabian hair"

That's short term, this is long term:

Not to be pedantic but there's no good news until deal is signed, production starts, training starts and the units are delivered to Balıkesir and Konya.

 

[TR_123456]

China will not sell ws10 to Turkey, technology transfer is a typical Turkish day dream
In the eye of china, nato is just a bunch of rubbish except USA
Turkey is not important for china

And this is why nobody likes your country or people,you act like the chosen ones.
Get down from your high horse,all your military equipment is inferior to Western equipment specially your engines.
You have quantity but no quality
Your products have costumors not able to buy Western equipment like many African Asian and South American countries.
Turkish military equipment is sold to both Western and the rest of the world,a sign of quality.
Your country has no say on the world stage,you are a so called ally of Iran but you didnt help in any way because you are afraid of what the West will do to you(sanctions).
You have no allies yet you act like you have many,your image is worthless yet you act like you are on top of the world.
Humbleness is not in your vocabulary,another reason why nobody likes you.
Let all these facts give you some perspective on how to ''sell'' your image,that is only if you understood what is meant here.
Btw,change the Brasillian to your real flag or i will change it for you.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

I have never understood the philosophy of the Chinese and Russians – I am talking about the governments here, not the people. They say that Iran is their ally, but they do not supply it with modern weapons or support it by intercepting Israeli missiles, as the Americans do with Iranian missiles. I also believe that all three deeply distrust each other to the core.
If China wants to play world power/world police, it would have to help Iran and act proactively as a counterweight to the US. Because the way they are behaving at the moment (maximum passivity), not even Mickey Mouse would trust them, so how could their supposed allies come to their aid when they themselves are not even prepared to do so?

 

[boredaf]

Why are we talking about the Chinese engines again? Kaan wasn't build with them in mind, our own engine isn't based on our expertise with them either, you don't just fit any engine to a jet, you design the jet around it in the first place.

And then there is the fact that doing something as stupid as going to China to buy the engine would be economical suicide, it would be far worse than S-400 sanctions we faced. Since Russia invaded Ukraine, US turned its full attention to China and even changed some requirements in its new platform to fit Pacific theatre. Doing business with them at this time (when it comes to military) is like putting your mouth over an RPG and firing it.

And let's not forget, it isn't just Kaan that is reliant on foreign parts, whether big or small. We have all kinds of engines and other critical components that we buy from other countries that we cannot replace yet. We have joint projects and our firms have contracts, like TEI's contract with LM, that bring them a lot of money. Forgoing all of that (and more) for an interim engine solution is illogical as fuck.

There is also the fact that why would China sell us their engines? We are in NATO, not just in the peripheries but right in the middle of it, participating in every exercise and workshop, our companies are doing different works for them and we are home to one of their command centres. Given how intertwined we are in NATO, there is no chance is hell they would trust us not to allow them to take a look under the hood of those engines, even though they are based on old Soviet engines.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

In this context, it is not a question of actively procuring Chinese or Russian engines or bringing about a strategic realignment, but solely of securing a backup plan for the worst-case scenario—a scenario in which Western supply chains remain permanently blocked and no alternative is available.

Turkey is currently working intensively on the development of its own high-performance engine (TEI TF-35000) for the TAI KAAN combat aircraft. However, until it is ready for series production around 2032/34, a transitional engine is needed to bridge the gap left by the F110 engine (of US origin) that was previously planned. This need for an interim solution arises from geopolitical uncertainties regarding the release and delivery of Western components.

In such a transition scenario, Russian or Chinese engines would also be technically capable of temporarily taking over this role. This is expressly not a matter of a preferred or strategically desired partnership, but rather a safeguard in an extreme emergency should all Western options remain permanently blocked.

Once the domestic TEI TF-35000 engine is completed and available in series production, all external solutions – including the F110 and Russian or Chinese alternatives – will be completely replaced. The long-term goal remains technological independence in propulsion technology.

The international window of opportunity in which Western players – including, in particular, the US/Israel and Greece – can still influence Turkish aviation development is rapidly closing. Once Turkey has its own series production of engines and semiconductors (even using older processes), these countries will effectively lose the ability to exert pressure by refusing to supply them.

It is significant that the US continues to remain noncommittal about supplying F-16 and F-35 fighter jets or F110 engines. Eurofighter exports are also being blocked, presumably due to political pressure from Israel and Greece. This deliberate indecision avoids a clear decision:

A "yes" would accelerate Turkey's technological progress.

A "no," on the other hand, would give Turkey the legitimacy to openly and officially seek alternatives without being subject to massive diplomatic or economic sanctions.

The Chinese (or Russian) engines are not a proactively pursued option, but merely a strategic fallback solution in extreme cases. In the long term, Turkey is striving for complete independence in propulsion technology. The current period is therefore critical from the perspective of its opponents: as soon as in-house developments such as the TEI TF-35000 and its own semiconductor production are available, Western influence will decline dramatically – a scenario that some players are now trying to slow down with all their might, but do not want to openly prevent.

 

[hugh]

In this context, it is not a question of actively procuring Chinese or Russian engines or bringing about a strategic realignment, but solely of securing a backup plan for the worst-case scenario—a scenario in which Western supply chains remain permanently blocked and no alternative is available.

Turkey is currently working intensively on the development of its own high-performance engine (TEI TF-35000) for the TAI KAAN combat aircraft. However, until it is ready for series production around 2032/34, a transitional engine is needed to bridge the gap left by the F110 engine (of US origin) that was previously planned. This need for an interim solution arises from geopolitical uncertainties regarding the release and delivery of Western components.

In such a transition scenario, Russian or Chinese engines would also be technically capable of temporarily taking over this role. This is expressly not a matter of a preferred or strategically desired partnership, but rather a safeguard in an extreme emergency should all Western options remain permanently blocked.

Once the domestic TEI TF-35000 engine is completed and available in series production, all external solutions – including the F110 and Russian or Chinese alternatives – will be completely replaced. The long-term goal remains technological independence in propulsion technology.

The international window of opportunity in which Western players – including, in particular, the US/Israel and Greece – can still influence Turkish aviation development is rapidly closing. Once Turkey has its own series production of engines and semiconductors (even using older processes), these countries will effectively lose the ability to exert pressure by refusing to supply them.

It is significant that the US continues to remain noncommittal about supplying F-16 and F-35 fighter jets or F110 engines. Eurofighter exports are also being blocked, presumably due to political pressure from Israel and Greece. This deliberate indecision avoids a clear decision:

A "yes" would accelerate Turkey's technological progress.

A "no," on the other hand, would give Turkey the legitimacy to openly and officially seek alternatives without being subject to massive diplomatic or economic sanctions.

The Chinese (or Russian) engines are not a proactively pursued option, but merely a strategic fallback solution in extreme cases. In the long term, Turkey is striving for complete independence in propulsion technology. The current period is therefore critical from the perspective of its opponents: as soon as in-house developments such as the TEI TF-35000 and its own semiconductor production are available, Western influence will decline dramatically – a scenario that some players are now trying to slow down with all their might, but do not want to openly prevent.

- you stating the obvious does not create a valid fallback option. Russia or China would not sell their engines. they're not obliged to supply a NATO member just because we're desperate for it.

- engines are not simple plug and play devices. the aircraft is designed and woven around an engine. even if you , hypothetically, found an engine, the odds of utilizing it without significant design changes on the aircraft is minimal.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

I think you may have overlooked an important aspect of geopolitics—and I don't mean that in a reproachful way. Russia and China are definitely pursuing the strategic goal of pulling Turkey further out of Western spheres of influence. This is evident, among other things, in the fact that China offered Turkey an air defense system in the past—an offer that was ultimately not pursued due to pressure from the US.

Russia's offer and sale of S-400 missiles also supports this view. Of course, China & Russia is aware that Turkey is a NATO member. At the same time, however, they also know that Turkey is not a typical NATO vassal of the US, the EU or NATO itself – but is increasingly pursuing an independent foreign policy as a swing state and mediator between the blocs.