TR Aircraft Carrier & Amphibious Ship Programs

[uçuyorum]

Just thinking out loud: If the purchase of EF for the air force is finalized, can we become an industrial participant of this aircraft by undertaking the development cost of the STOBAR variant of EF, which has been prepared for several tenders before but has not received an order and therefore has not yet emerged, but the project was ready to start?

(The following excerpt is a worth reading post with concentrated information on the development of Navalize Typhoon in past.)

Naval Eurofighter Typhoon projects

This may well be bollocks and sloppy journalism, though I understand that the Typhoon (N) “is not dead” and that the studies are still being looked at and kept under review. The option of a ‘marinised’ Typhoon has been studied several times, first as the only STOBAR aircraft type to be...

www.secretprojects.co.uk

Not possible without other partners I think. UK and Italy use F35B, so only spain could be a canditate but they don't have a full carrier, F35B is more suitable for them because they have harriers on their LHD. I think it's inevitable. It would be an interesting development if we partnered for 2 carries and naval eurofighter though, but I don't think other partners would approve that anyways

 

[dBSPL]

Not possible without other partners I think. UK and Italy use F35B, so only spain could be a canditate but they don't have a full carrier, F35B is more suitable for them because they have harriers on their LHD. I think it's inevitable. It would be an interesting development if we partnered for 2 carries and naval eurofighter though, but I don't think other partners would approve that anyways

If I were to give my opinion, if a country puts its money and bears the cost and risk of a variant and capacity expansion of a platform on which they are already making money for the partner countries in question, it is not pragmatic to be against it, and it would only be the product of political stupidity. I have hope that with the second Trump term, the EU region will face some harsh realities and this political stupidity will be left behind a little, including Germany, but of course this is my personal opinion. Because of that, I'm more interested in what would be a real alternative to the F35B if we don't have access to it, rather than other questions.

My Q; What if Turkish naval forces does financing the development of actual size fighter aircraft that will meet the needs of the naval combatant air forces exactly, over the the project that its model is ready, the feasibility has been done, but no client has been found before.

There is no doubt that the consortium countries are not interested in this variant. Countries in the EF consortium, including Spain, are not expected to engage in this type of development when they already have access to the F35B. As stated in the part I have already quoted, this 'project' has remained as a plan B. Apart from that, it may have been offered to India and Brazil, i dunno, it is necessary to scan the sources.. What we know that the engineering side of the project was largely ready and a number of institutions in the UK have put a lot of thought into it. This is the part I attach importance to, the engineering solutions of what to do and how to do it have already been worked on more than once.

But with an important nuance, Not, for example, that the Arab emirates fund Lockheed's F-16 variant development in the US, but whether there can be variant development that includes Turkish aerospace industry participation. The experience and cooperation to be gained here could pave the way for the development of a navalized jet within the domestic fifth generation jet development program in the future. This accumulation can also be achieved through the Hürjet Naval, but on the one hand, a platform that can meet the needs of naval combat aviation at the 'minimum level' may emerge, while on the other hand, there may be the opportunity to acquire a full combat jet.

This could be a strategic direction in terms of opening up access to a STOBAR jet that will meet your needs exactly, even if the sole user remains the Turkish naval forces. Like I said I'm just thinking out loud, this way we may have access to a fighter aircraft with an extra corrosion-resistant fuselage, flight avionics that provide more precise landing and take-off, reinforced landing gear, the ability to land on unprepared and short runways, and certified with all naval warfare munitions. Again, my personal opinion is that if we had such an aircraft, I would not equate the potential acquisition amount to MUGEM's typical air task force. Btw, I apologize to the forum if I took the current topic out of context, I like to chatter sometimes...

 

[Fairon]

I think if we go for the naval aircraft development route for the MUGEM, we should make it a joint project between Air Force and Navy.(Not F35 but more like Rafale)

Air Force probably will need a single engine multirole aircraft that accompanies Kaan in the future(because of the possible KAAN cost) and Navy will need an aircraft for the MUGEM. This way the cost will be much more justifiable.

 

[dBSPL]

I think if we go for the naval aircraft development route for the MUGEM, we should make it a joint project between Air Force and Navy.(Not F35 but more like Rafale)

Air Force probably will need a single engine multirole aircraft that accompanies Kaan in the future(because of the possible KAAN cost) and Navy will need an aircraft for the MUGEM. This way the cost will be much more justifiable.

I am not as hopeful as some friends about this single-engine KAAN. The reason for this is the possible platforms of the TAF combat fleets that are slowly becoming apparent for next 20 years. Especially when compared to the payload capacity and typical operational radius, a scale is seen to have formed. Even if the Navy were to make room for it, the design and development of such a new airframe would likely take until the 2040s to deliver it to the Navy, considering current ongoing programs.

(illustration tr_tech X.com)

With twin +6000lbf engine configuration, both KE and ANKA variants will continue their expansion. On top of all this, although there are various debates among defense enthusiasts, one way or another the LCA variant for the Hürjet is now almost certain. In other words, there will be a payload capacity ranging from 1 tons to possibly 4 tons on 5 platforms with a similar flight envelope to main combat jets. Except for long range strike drones without afterburners, in case of longer range and a payload requirement of more than 5 tons, the main combat platform KAAN will be responsible, meanwhile I think the capacity will be much less in full stealth mode.

The aircraft that will be navalized will weigh more at least half ton, maybe more. Due to the nature of the STOBAR operation, it is also very difficult to take off these aircraft from the carrier with its full payload capacity. While there will be so many options below of scale, I believe that if a navalized variant is to emerge through the next gen fighter KAAN program, the fastest way to do this is to work on navalizing the existing airframe, perhaps with a foldable wing configuration like the F35C, without compromising the aircraft's current targeted power output and capacity as much as possible.

I think the most important issue here will be that we can produce the engine domestically. Thus, both production and maintenance-operation expenses will remain domestically to the maximum extent.

 

[UkroTurk]

Just thinking out loud: If the purchase of EF for the air force is finalized, can we become an industrial participant of this aircraft by undertaking the development cost of the STOBAR variant of EF, which has been prepared for several tenders before but has not received an order and therefore has not yet emerged, but the project was ready to start?

(The following excerpt is a worth reading post with concentrated information on the development of Navalize Typhoon in past.)

Naval Eurofighter Typhoon projects

This may well be bollocks and sloppy journalism, though I understand that the Typhoon (N) “is not dead” and that the studies are still being looked at and kept under review. The option of a ‘marinised’ Typhoon has been studied several times, first as the only STOBAR aircraft type to be...

www.secretprojects.co.uk

I am raising the stake and

 

[Baklava Consumer]

UK Ministry of Defense was considering "disposing of" one of the two Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1858054220500332845

Gov should consider this, you can get one of these for dirt cheap and convert it into CATOBAR for a future naval Kaan, it can accommodate 3 electromagnetic catapults if you remove the ramp. Can save a lot of money/time and make Turkish navy a true blue water navy.

 

[Anmdt]

UK Ministry of Defense was considering "disposing of" one of the two Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1858054220500332845

Gov should consider this, you can get one of these for dirt cheap and convert it into CATOBAR for a future naval Kaan, it can accommodate 3 electromagnetic catapults if you remove the ramp. Can save a lot of money/time and make Turkish navy a true blue water navy.

Man, please follow and post credible sources. Not someone's comment on an article that wasn't even read thoroughly.

However, they believed it would be unlikely that ministers would get rid of one of the carriers because they would have to pull out of a commitment to be permanently available for Nato duties. “I don’t think we would downgrade our commitment at a time when the US are signalling moving away,” the source said, adding that a Trump’s victory in the American presidential election made a reduction in Britain’s Nato commitments unlikely.

Original source;

War games expose aircraft carriers as the Royal Navy’s weak link

HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales, which cost £6.2 billion, are vulnerable to missiles. Should they be scrapped in the defence review?

www.thetimes.com

Get rid of these wannabe experts for God's sake.

 

[dBSPL]

Retired Admiral Cihat Yaycı said that he knew that a naval variant of the KAAN, capable of vertical landing, being worked on to be evaluated in the next period. He starts the sentence like a wish, but he emphasizes several times that he knows it. Even if it's an evaluation phase right now, it's big news.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1858955647980892517

(paşa hariçten gazel okumuyorsa büyük haber, foruma aktarırken hayli tereddütte kaldım)

 

[Mis_TR_Like]

One way or another, we need Kaan fighters for our future carriers. Hurjet won't cut it. There's no point building a full sized carrier just for it to carry light 4th gen jets... Sure, Anka 3 and Kızılelma offer some good capabilities, but we're still early in both the Kaan and AC programs, so there's plenty of time to work something out.. let's just hope it doesn't cause significant delays.

With that said, VTOL version of Kaan sounds like a dream

 

[uçuyorum]

One way or another, we need Kaan fighters for our future carriers. Hurjet won't cut it. There's no point building a full sized carrier just for it to carry light 4th gen jets... Sure, Anka 3 and Kızılelma offer some good capabilities, but we're still early in both the Kaan and AC programs, so there's plenty of time to work something out.. let's just hope it doesn't cause significant delays.

With that said, VTOL version of Kaan sounds like a dream

Maybe meant STOL?

 

[Mis_TR_Like]

Maybe meant STOL?

Not too sure, haven't watched it. But yeah VTOL would be a huge task, may as well work on a nuclear carrier with a catapult system... Unless TSK wants VTOL or STOL for other purposes too such as wartime runway shortages.

 

[KULAK]

I wonder how relevant extended horizontal platform carriers will be much beyond 2050? I've seen the Ford class that the US has already been building which is much larger than the Nimitz class , however China already is developing a hypersonic system that is about to make the carrier obsolete.
According to current information, China is believed to be developing a mysterious "space plane" sometimes referred to as the "Shenlong" (Divine Dragon), which could potentially be capable of firing weapons from space, (not to be confused with White Emperor, which is the country's sixth-gen fighter jet) this highlights China's advancements in aerospace technology. The "integrated space-air fighter" aims to perform in both atmospheric and near-space altitudes. However the exact details and capabilities of this craft (Divine Dragon) are not publicly known and remain highly classified; raising concerns about potential space militarization.

 

[Anmdt]

Retired Admiral Cihat Yaycı said that he knew that a naval variant of the KAAN, capable of vertical landing, being worked on to be evaluated in the next period. He starts the sentence like a wish, but he emphasizes several times that he knows it. Even if it's an evaluation phase right now, it's big news.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1858955647980892517

(paşa hariçten gazel okumuyorsa büyük haber, foruma aktarırken hayli tereddütte kaldım)

VTOL Kaan sounds so unfeasible to me, the plane is huge and powered by two engines.
It could be only possible if at somepoint they decide to make single engine KAAN, in the later stages of project after navalizing Hürjet-C.

 

[chngr]

if F-14, Su-33, J-15 can...why not KAAN can carrier fighter

We need CATOBAR and Kaan Naval

 

[IC3M@N FX]

if F-14, Su-33, J-15 can...why not KAAN can carrier fighter

We need CATOBAR and Kaan Naval

With which money.....? This should have been done right from the start. The problem with making the Aircraft more compact is that the range and payload would have suffered. It makes more sense to rely on Hürjet, Kizilelma and Anka 3. After TAI KAAN 2036/37 you can develop a cost-effective single-jet multirole stealth aircraft that is absolutely optimized for efficiency and economy + with aircraft carrier compatibility.

 

[uçuyorum]

With which money.....? This should have been done right from the start. The problem with making the Aircraft more compact is that the range and payload would have suffered. It makes more sense to rely on Hürjet, Kizilelma and Anka 3. After TAI KAAN 2036/37 you can develop a cost-effective single-jet multirole stealth aircraft that is absolutely optimized for efficiency and economy + with aircraft carrier compatibility.

Yeah I don't expect a naval manned fighter before 2040s except for hürjet