TR Aircraft Carrier and Amphibious Ship Programs

[Zafer]

V/STOL is definitely the way to go, an unmanned version of Ryan XV-5 Vertifan would be perfect, I reckon
But, this would take years to develop.. but, atleast the LHD would not have to go through timely modifcations to the deck.. and would be operational during development of a V/STOL UCAV

Some of the disadvantages of the XV-5 type design could be aviliated with electrical fan drives

Then you will need solutions for battery problems.

 

[Combat-Master]

This plane was experimental and doesn't seem to have worked. Engine exhausts are very long. Fans are in the wings. A recipe for failure.

Gotta remember it was in the 60s. You can make a brick fly these days with computers.

Then you will need solutions for battery problems.

I don't think high density battery pack would be an issue at all, have little APU on-board. Sorted.

 

[Zafer]

Gotta remember it was in the 60s. You can make a brick fly these days with computers.



I don't think high density battery pack would be an issue at all, have little APU on-board. Sorted.

The industry has not sorted that out yet for VTOL aircraft. There is not a single deployment .eVTOLs are sensitive to weight unlike airplanes. But for helicopters they have already tried adding electric motor to the mix giving a pilot 30 seconds extra time to pull off autorotation in case of main engine failure.

 

[Anmdt]

V/STOL is definitely the way to go, an unmanned version of Ryan XV-5 Vertifan would be perfect, I reckon
But, this would take years to develop.. but, atleast the LHD would not have to go through timely modifcations to the deck.. and would be operational during development of a V/STOL UCAV

Some of the disadvantages of the XV-5 type design could be aviliated with electrical fan drives

There is already helicopters, which the LHD is designed accordingly; Seahawk, Chinhook and TAI's future ATAK-2 or TAI's 10 tonnes UH which can operate from an LHD and makes more sense than Cezeri.
The point is being able to launch an UAV as an interim solution to assist amphibious assault and provide intelligence, Harriers are still an option and F-35B is what desired, they are not scrapping helicopter operations.

 

[Glass🚬]

There is already helicopters, which the LHD is designed accordingly; Seahawk, Chinhook and TAI's future ATAK-2 or TAI's 10 tonnes UH which can operate from an LHD and makes more sense than Cezeri.
The point is being able to launch an UAV as an interim solution to assist amphibious assault and provide intelligence, Harriers are still an option and F-35B is what desired, they are not scrapping helicopter operations.

Are the harriers still being considered as a stop-gap solution?

 

[Anmdt]

Are the harriers still being considered as a stop-gap solution?

If it is sold, why not?
Count it in as a training, at worst case.

 

[Brave Janissary]

I have a 2 critical problem ?

1- What is the minnimum safe altittude for transition to horizontal flight on vstol aircraft ?
2- İf that altitude is X , what is the maximmum take of weight of Baykar cezeri until X ? They can reach 2000 meter altitude with 250 kg mtow .

I asked it for these reason ;

We can work a that kind of ucav upon cezeri. I used S-97 raider for show you concept bod think a body more lighter. Tail rotor will be pg-115 or pd-170 .

He can ascend until 100-200 meter and after they can open his pd-170 engine or like that . Concept is that ;

İf he can ascend and land with 1000-1500 kg aroun anka like uav we can integrate him 2x bozdoğan and he can fire it with help of mini aesa radared version of him and also he can be very deathly with 2x thrusted and ins+radar seekered kuzgun it will be good ship hunter. Also he can carry multiple mam-l, bozok etc for land attack also.

So it will be very good low cost attack for for anadolu. On the other vtol capability is important. We can be have much more uav which capable long range strike or aa capability. But if yours air bases and landing runway is hited they nothing important.

Vtol aa and long range strike capability with mobile command posts is important. That mean yours have second strike capability againts suprise first strikes with maked by b-2 and f-117 kind stealth bombers.

 

[Zafer]

I have a 2 critical problem ?

1- What is the minnimum safe altittude for transition to horizontal flight on vstol aircraft ?
2- İf that altitude is X , what is the maximmum take of weight of Baykar cezeri until X ? They can reach 2000 meter altitude with 250 kg mtow .

I asked it for these reason ;

We can work a that kind of ucav upon cezeri. I used S-97 raider for show you concept bod think a body more lighter. Tail rotor will be pg-115 or pd-170 .

He can ascend until 100-200 meter and after they can open his pd-170 engine or like that . Concept is that ;

İf he can ascend and land with 1000-1500 kg aroun anka like uav we can integrate him 2x bozdoğan and he can fire it with help of mini aesa radared version of him and also he can be very deathly with 2x thrusted and ins+radar seekered kuzgun it will be good ship hunter. Also he can carry multiple mam-l, bozok etc for land attack also.

So it will be very good low cost attack for for anadolu. On the other vtol capability is important. We can be have much more uav which capable long range strike or aa capability. But if yours air bases and landing runway is hited they nothing important.

Vtol aa and long range strike capability with mobile command posts is important. That mean yours have second strike capability againts suprise first strikes with maked by b-2 and f-117 kind stealth bombers.

For people who are considering multicopter type VTOL vehicles for military operations I want to point out a few things to make the situation clear.

1- They are more silent then a helicopter which is their main benefit.
2- They run on electric which is cheaper than fossil fuel

Other benefits are minor

On the other hand:

They lack stamina, they can't fly long enough to do a meaningful job.
And smaller propellers are energy inefficient, propellers are more efficient as they get bigger, helicopters top the list of efficiency.

There will probably never be a manned multicopter design in miliary service for attack missions in the next 20 years.

 

[Brave Janissary]

I have a 2 critical problem ?

1- What is the minnimum safe altittude for transition to horizontal flight on vstol aircraft ?
2- İf that altitude is X , what is the maximmum take of weight of Baykar cezeri until X ? They can reach 2000 meter altitude with 250 kg mtow .

I asked it for these reason ;

We can work a that kind of ucav upon cezeri. I used S-97 raider for show you concept bod think a body more lighter. Tail rotor will be pg-115 or pd-170 .

He can ascend until 100-200 meter and after they can open his pd-170 engine or like that . Concept is that ;

İf he can ascend and land with 1000-1500 kg aroun anka like uav we can integrate him 2x bozdoğan and he can fire it with help of mini aesa radared version of him and also he can be very deathly with 2x thrusted and ins+radar seekered kuzgun it will be good ship hunter. Also he can carry multiple mam-l, bozok etc for land attack also.

So it will be very good low cost attack for for anadolu. On the other vtol capability is important. We can be have much more uav which capable long range strike or aa capability. But if yours air bases and landing runway is hited they nothing important.

Vtol aa and long range strike capability with mobile command posts is important. That mean yours have second strike capability againts suprise first strikes with maked by b-2 and f-117 kind stealth bombers.

But until that kind of concept we can use ;

Altınay Sumru for Light attack, anti drone/heli and laser guide supporter for trgl-230 ;

He can carry 2x bozok + 2x mam-c or 2x bozok +2x sungur.

Also he can will be laser targeter supporter for trgl-230 loaded cargo ships or we can use jobaria like trgl-230 loaded vehicles on the half runway of anadolu ;

One of them can carry 48 trgl-230 and we can put 4 of them to half of anadolu's runway. Other half can be used for helicopters or vtol ucavs. 4x48=192 missile.

Also altınay albatros usefull for logistic to landed forces one of them can carry 150 kg, also he will be good for injured people transport.

Also 150 kg payload version can carry 36 mortar sized cheap ammo for single or multimple carpet bombing.

-----

Mans thats are electric powered autonomus and vtol uav. Very efficent for amfibic operations.

 

[Zafer]

But until that kind of concept we can use ;

Altınay Sumru for Light attack, anti drone/heli and laser guide supporter for trgl-230 ;

He can carry 2x bozok + 2x mam-c or 2x bozok +2x sungur.

Also he can will be laser targeter supporter for trgl-230 loaded cargo ships or we can use jobaria like trgl-230 loaded vehicles on the half runway of anadolu ;

One of them can carry 48 trgl-230 and we can put 4 of them to half of anadolu's runway. Other half can be used for helicopters or vtol ucavs. 4x48=192 missile.

Also altınay albatros usefull for logistic to landed forces one of them can carry 150 kg, also he will be good for injured people transport.

Also 150 kg payload version can carry 36 mortar sized cheap ammo for single or multimple carpet bombing.

-----

Mans thats are electric powered autonomus and vtol uav. Very efficent for amfibic operations.

Once I came across to Haluk Bayraktar and I asked him if there is any work towards electrification and he simply answered "electric has 30 times less power for the same weight". It is as simple as that.

 

[Turko]

In theory, couldn't the TDK only slightly dismantle these ships and replace it with modern components?

I know this article is from the Daily Mail (notoriously tabloid) and its over 9 years old, but surely other Navy vessels are being brought to Aliaga to be dismantled.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...p-HMS-Invincible-arrives-Turkey-scrapped.html

NO! Their metal can't stand against heavy sea condition.

 

[bsruzm]

''TCG Anadolu Amphibious Assault and TCG Ufuk Intelligence Ships. While the construction of TCG Anadolu continues, tests of TCG Ufuk are being carried out.''

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1314559274878676992

 

[Hexciter]

 

[guest12]

Lets turn TCG Anadolu into Mothership.

 

[Test7]

TCG Anadolu's construction continues(mavivatan.net)

 

[Anmdt]

Bayraktar Class LST:
Smart-S MkII
ARES -2 (Suffix unknown) ECM suite
IFF, LPI, SatCom etc.
2 x 40 mm (single barrel)
2 x Phalanx CIWS
Counter-measures
3 Loading doors, all can be used on pier.

Note: 2 more will be ordered, the date is unknown.

 

[Yasar_TR]

View attachment 7378
Bayraktar Class LST:
Smart-S MkII
ARES -2 (Suffix unknown) ECM suite
IFF, LPI, SatCom etc.
2 x 40 mm (single barrel)
2 x Phalanx CIWS
Counter-measures
3 Loading doors, all can be used on pier.

Note: 2 more will be ordered, the date is unknown.

Please don’t forget L403 Sancaktar; Bayraktar’s sister ship.

 

[Yasar_TR]

What I most like about these ships is that, they have capability to fire trg122 , trg230 and trg300 from their decks. The deficiency of our fleet’s land bombardment before a landing is hence alleviated and may be removed altogether. To bomb precisely the enemy positions before a landing is priceless.

 

[Anmdt]

What I most like about these ships is that, they have capability to fire trg122 , trg230 and trg300 from their decks. The deficiency of our fleet’s land bombardment before a landing is hence alleviated and may be removed altogether. To bomb precisely the enemy positions before a landing is priceless.

And what i like, are cranes and the boat storage.

 

[Anmdt]

If containers are placed on the helipad you're right, but if placed behind the main cannon it won't hinder helicopters

But then RCS would increase remarkably.
Yonca-Onuk has presented a quadruple launcher with hidden canisters ;
Same can be applied here, with a custom made container to respect RCS of the ship. However i think it would require some fixation -integration with the deck. Such a thing is best suitable for large ships like DIMDEG, LST, LHD or LPD.