TR News Akkuyu Nuclear Power Plant is granted Nuclear status

Lool

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Congratulations to all of our Turkish brothers on this marvelous achievment. Today, Turkey is officially one of the "nuclear" status nations; a status held by only the few at the top

 

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Turkish Republic is ready for nuclear war
It's not Turkiye's power plant. It Russia's. It's built under the term "Yap, İşlet, Sahip Ol." Which means it's Russia's till it's decommissioning. We have guaranteed to buy at least %70 of their production at $0.1235 per kWh which is much more expensive than our average buying rate. Russia is gonna milk us for fifteen years at this price. Considering that energy production costs are going down continuously, I doubt if we made the right decision to bring Russian nuclear powerplants into the heart of Anatolia.

 
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Turkish Minister of Energy

"I believe we will develop new nuclear technologies peculiar to Türkiye"

I think he is referring to Molten Salt Reactor research
 

Lool

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It's not Turkiye's power plant. It Russia's. It's built under the term "Yap, İşlet, Sahip Ol." Which means it's Russia's till it's decommissioning. We have guaranteed to buy at least %70 of their production at $0.1235 per kWh which is much more expensive than our average buying rate. Russia is gonna milk us for fifteen years at this price. Considering that energy production costs are going down continuously, I doubt if we made the right decision to bring Russian nuclear powerplants into the heart of Anatolia.

I kept hearing rumors that Turkey promised to buy 49% of the shares of the project when it is completed. Thus, whatever profit c9mes from the 0.1235$ per kWh, 49% will go back to Turkey while the remaining 51% will go to Russia
Considering that Russia financed all of the project on its own, I think Turkey will make a decent profit and gain a lot of foreign currency if the rumors are true; i-e, Turkey will actually buy 49% of the shares
 

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View attachment 56738

Turkish Minister of Energy

"I believe we will develop new nuclear technologies peculiar to Türkiye"

I think he is referring to Molten Salt Reactor research
Hope he does.

Fun fact about Turkey: No matter how behind she is in any technology, she has proved many times since the founding of the republic that once determined to acquire a given technology, she eventually gets there either incrementally over time or just pops out at the finish line!
 

godel44

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It's not Turkiye's power plant. It Russia's. It's built under the term "Yap, İşlet, Sahip Ol." Which means it's Russia's till it's decommissioning. We have guaranteed to buy at least %70 of their production at $0.1235 per kWh which is much more expensive than our average buying rate. Russia is gonna milk us for fifteen years at this price. Considering that energy production costs are going down continuously, I doubt if we made the right decision to bring Russian nuclear powerplants into the heart of Anatolia.

It's a bit unfair to say Russia is milking us when they single-handedly paid the $22B cost to build the plant. I always thought this might be a bad deal for Russia.

The net benefit for us: the subjective value of zero-emission secure energy + value of acquiring the nuclear power technology + the remaining value of the nuclear power plant after 15 years - the energy premium we pay for 15 years

With a rough calculation, it seems with a little Googling that we guaranteed 262.5B kWh over 15 years and assuming that we substitute this for imported natural gas (could also be imported coal but whatever) and assuming 1m^3 of gas yields 10.64 kWh and the current low natural gas price of $470 per 1000 cubic meters, you get a price premium of 262.5e9 * (0.1235 - 470/(1000*10.64)) = $20.82B. Russia seems to make a loss here even without considering the time value of money. On the other hand, considering that after this time period the power plant will still be valued at around $22B, Turkiye will about break even without even considering the value of clean secure energy and access to nuclear technologies.
 

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It's not Turkiye's power plant. It Russia's. It's built under the term "Yap, İşlet, Sahip Ol." Which means it's Russia's till it's decommissioning. We have guaranteed to buy at least %70 of their production at $0.1235 per kWh which is much more expensive than our average buying rate. Russia is gonna milk us for fifteen years at this price. Considering that energy production costs are going down continuously, I doubt if we made the right decision to bring Russian nuclear powerplants into the heart of Anatolia.

When Turkiye will completely take over the plant and will do whatever it likes with it ? Is turkiye working on nuclear fuel to replace with national in near future ?
 

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It's a bit unfair to say Russia is milking us when they single-handedly paid the $22B cost to build the plant. I always thought this might be a bad deal for Russia.

The net benefit for us: the subjective value of zero-emission secure energy + value of acquiring the nuclear power technology + the remaining value of the nuclear power plant after 15 years - the energy premium we pay for 15 years

With a rough calculation, it seems with a little Googling that we guaranteed 262.5B kWh over 15 years and assuming that we substitute this for imported natural gas (could also be imported coal but whatever) and assuming 1m^3 of gas yields 10.64 kWh and the current low natural gas price of $470 per 1000 cubic meters, you get a price premium of 262.5e9 * (0.1235 - 470/(1000*10.64)) = $20.82B. Russia seems to make a loss here even without considering the time value of money. On the other hand, considering that after this time period the power plant will still be valued at around $22B, Turkiye will about break even without even considering the value of clean secure energy and access to nuclear technologies.

The feasibility of the power plant is not really our concern since Russia is footing the bill. But I'm more interesting with this quote "value of acquiring the nuclear power technology". What do you mean by it, what did we get?

"the value of clean secure energy"

Clean energy aspect of the investment is correct but these days almost every energy investment is clean because they're much cheaper than alternatives. And it's not secure energy if Russia owns and operates it. We just gave Russia another leverage over us. So much for the energy independence.


When Turkiye will completely take over the plant and will do whatever it likes with it ? Is turkiye working on nuclear fuel to replace with national in near future ?
It is Russia's powerplant through and through. There is no taking over it. Russia will operate it till it's decommissioning.
 

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The feasibility of the power plant is not really our concern since Russia is footing the bill. But I'm more interesting with this quote "value of acquiring the nuclear power technology". What do you mean by it, what did we get?

"the value of clean secure energy"

Clean energy aspect of the investment is correct but these days almost every energy investment is clean because they're much cheaper than alternatives. And it's not secure energy if Russia owns and operates it. We just gave Russia another leverage over us. So much for the energy independence.



It is Russia's powerplant through and through. There is no taking over it. Russia will operate it till it's decommissioning.
Will we advance in nuclear technology thanks to Akkuyu?
 

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Will we advance in nuclear technology thanks to Akkuyu?
I don't know. If it's a deal with technology transfer similar to S400 purchase then I don't think it's wise for us. It's not cheap. We have to pay at least $3.1 billions a year to Russia for the electricity of the powerplant. That is $46.5 billions in total for the fifteen years.
 

TR_123456

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I don't know. If it's a deal with technology transfer similar to S400 purchase then I don't think it's wise for us. It's not cheap. We have to pay at least $3.1 billions a year to Russia for the electricity.
Didnt we send some engineers to Russia to study Nuclear Science ?
What happened to them,will they be working at Akkuyu?
These questions need to be answered with ''yes'',if not then what do we gain besides ''expensive'' eletricity?
 

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Didnt we send some engineers to Russia to study Nuclear Science ?
What happened to them,will they be working at Akkuyu?
These questions need to be answered with ''yes'',if not then what do we gain besides ''expensive'' eletricity?
Just as there has been no answer on the S400, there will be no answer on Akkuyu.
 

Lool

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The feasibility of the power plant is not really our concern since Russia is footing the bill. But I'm more interesting with this quote "value of acquiring the nuclear power technology". What do you mean by it, what did we get?

"the value of clean secure energy"

Clean energy aspect of the investment is correct but these days almost every energy investment is clean because they're much cheaper than alternatives. And it's not secure energy if Russia owns and operates it. We just gave Russia another leverage over us. So much for the energy independence.



It is Russia's powerplant through and through. There is no taking over it. Russia will operate it till it's decommissioning.
Not really
Russia doesnt have a leverage that big as many expect it to be
As many said, Russia has footed all of the bill from its pocket so it gained a leverage by selling at a higher price to a nation where no one wanted to build nuclear reactors in it before
Howver, as I said, 49% of the Akkuyu power plant will be sold after the project is completed so not all the profits will be going to Russia since 49% of whatever is coming out from the power plant's profits isnt going to Russia

Russia is gonna operate the plant for 20 years while the Power plant is expected to survive for 20-25 years with 10 additional years after restoration works
 

Lool

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Didnt we send some engineers to Russia to study Nuclear Science ?
What happened to them,will they be working at Akkuyu?
These questions need to be answered with ''yes'',if not then what do we gain besides ''expensive'' eletricity?
Yes and many already garduated and were promised positions respective to their roles in the Akkuyu nuclear power plant


 

godel44

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The feasibility of the power plant is not really our concern since Russia is footing the bill. But I'm more interesting with this quote "value of acquiring the nuclear power technology". What do you mean by it, what did we get?

"the value of clean secure energy"

Clean energy aspect of the investment is correct but these days almost every energy investment is clean because they're much cheaper than alternatives. And it's not secure energy if Russia owns and operates it. We just gave Russia another leverage over us. So much for the energy independence.



It is Russia's powerplant through and through. There is no taking over it. Russia will operate it till it's decommissioning.

We have sent students to Russian universities to study nuclear energy and we have required Russia to work with local contractors as much as possible when building the plant so that the nuclear energy ecosystem in the country gets started up. So you get a lot of experience with nuclear energy where there was none before and you kickstart efforts to build your own reactors in the future and do R&D on things like molten salt reactors.

When I say clean and secure energy, I mean secure in the sense that supply can't be interrupted just like Iran interrupts supply from time to time for "maintenance." Also, renewables, while very important, will not solve our problems alone due to their intermittent nature. You need continuous energy sources to smooth over renewable supply cycles and stabilize the overall supply. Batteries are a future option but not advanced enough yet.

It's also not a big leverage that Russia has over us, especially after the construction is complete. Only 50% of the supply is guaranteed to be bought at a certain price. Apart from that you have a setup where Turkiye can buy energy from any source but the nuclear plant can sell only to Turkiye. If Russia were to try to do something funny Turkiye would not buy energy from the plant and Russia would lose on the huge initial investment. If anything, Turkiye has leverage over Russia.

Energy is pretty much the most important topic in the economy and we had our first nuclear plant built with no money spent upfront, to be paid in very reasonable installments in the form of the premium we pay for energy for as short a period as 15 years. We even got transfer of technology in the deal. This project is clearly a huge win for the country and arguing otherwise becomes absurd.

Maybe some will remember that Turkiye had also got the heavy industry around steel started with Russian help back in the day. It is interesting that same thing is happening with nuclear.
 

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We have sent students to Russian universities to study nuclear energy and we have required Russia to work with local contractors as much as possible when building the plant so that the nuclear energy ecosystem in the country gets started up. So you get a lot of experience with nuclear energy where there was none before and you kickstart efforts to build your own reactors in the future and do R&D on things like molten salt reactors.

1. Are those trained in Moscow only operators? If so, obviously it wouldnt be run by Russian 24/7 - so not a big deal. I dont know if the deal included anything else.

2. The local contractors were changed recently.

Akkuyu Nukleer AS, a subsidiary of Rosatom, last week annulled an engineering, procurement and construction contract with IC Ictas and signed a deal with TSM Enerji, a Turkey-incorporated company owned by three Russian firms.

 

Lool

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1. Are those trained in Moscow only operators? If so, obviously it wouldnt be run by Russian 24/7 - so not a big deal. I dont know if the deal included anything else.

2. The local contractors were changed recently.

Akkuyu Nukleer AS, a subsidiary of Rosatom, last week annulled an engineering, procurement and construction contract with IC Ictas and signed a deal with TSM Enerji, a Turkey-incorporated company owned by three Russian firms.

That problem was fixed when Erdogan visited on september I believe and all the Turkish companies involved in the project were returned back
 
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