TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

Rodeo

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according to statements by SSB officials in the media the Korean powerpack was going to be modified by Turkish engineers to reach a more desirable performance.
it sounds dubious.can you provide a source for the claim?
 

Baljak

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If such an enhancement were to be done it would just be done by South Korea as part of the contract when they make the transmissions.
It is better to abandon the expectation that Korean power packs will be improved. To be honest, there is no room for improvement in the performance of Korean power packs. Even Korean engines are long-stroke engines used in trucks and heavy equipment, not short-stroke engines (Like german MTU) used for tanks. DV27K is an engine that has improved to 1500 hp by modifying a 1200 hp ship engine.
 

No Name

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It is better to abandon the expectation that Korean power packs will be improved. To be honest, there is no room for improvement in the performance of Korean power packs. Even Korean engines are long-stroke engines used in trucks and heavy equipment, not short-stroke engines (Like german MTU) used for tanks. DV27K is an engine that has improved to 1500 hp by modifying a 1200 hp ship engine.
does that mean that Korea isn't going to transition to an indigenous power pack for its own tanks?
 

Bmx98

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it sounds dubious.can you provide a source for the claim?
In this article Ismail Demir says "we need to make some changes in the power group" now who is "we" is not specified is it SSB and Korean company or is it SSB and BMC I don't know.
 

Baljak

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does that mean that Korea isn't going to transition to an indigenous power pack for its own tanks?
STX Engine.jpg

To be precise, the new short-stroke engines to be integrated into the K2, K21 and K9 in the future will be developed by STX, another South Korean military engine manufacturer.

STX Engine developed the 1360 hp SMV1360 engine for main battle tanks in 2016 and is developing the 1000 horsepower SMV1000 engine in 2025 to replace the K9's German MT881 engine.

At the 2022 DX KOREA, I interviewed an official of STX, who stated that once the development of the SMV1000 was completed, the goal was to integrate the STX engine into the Turkish T-155 Fırtına, Polish ASH Krab, and K9PL, which share the same chassis platform as the K9. Of course, this will not happen if Turkiye and Poland do not want to.
 

Baljak

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In this article Ismail Demir says "we need to make some changes in the power group" now who is "we" is not specified is it SSB and Korean company or is it SSB and BMC I don't know.
If the SSB or Turkish media mentioned it, it does not mean that it has already been completed or finished, but that it can or will be done in the very distant future. I believe only 50% of what the SSB or BMC says about Altay. I'm telling you, neither Hyundai Rotem or SNT can make korean power packs any better. If what is mentioned here is really true, this will happen on the transmission, not on the engine.
 

Bmx98

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If the SSB or Turkish media mentioned it, it does not mean that it has already been completed or finished, but that it can or will be done in the very distant future. I believe only 50% of what the SSB or BMC says about Altay. I'm telling you, neither Hyundai Rotem or SNT can make korean power packs any better. If what is mentioned here is really true, this will happen on the transmission, not on the engine.
Well of course on the transmission, there wasn't any dissatisfaction with the engine.
 

Blackeyes90

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If the SSB or Turkish media mentioned it, it does not mean that it has already been completed or finished, but that it can or will be done in the very distant future. I believe only 50% of what the SSB or BMC says about Altay. I'm telling you, neither Hyundai Rotem or SNT can make korean power packs any better. If what is mentioned here is really true, this will happen on the transmission, not on the engine.
I am not familiar with the Korean Transmission. Is it good enough for the Altay ? I remember that Koreans ditch their national powerpack for RENK transmission for K2.
 

No Name

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If the SSB or Turkish media mentioned it, it does not mean that it has already been completed or finished, but that it can or will be done in the very distant future. I believe only 50% of what the SSB or BMC says about Altay. I'm telling you, neither Hyundai Rotem or SNT can make korean power packs any better. If what is mentioned here is really true, this will happen on the transmission, not on the engine.
you should lower that number to 35%
 

Baljak

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I am not familiar with the Korean Transmission. Is it good enough for the Altay ? I remember that Koreans ditch their national powerpack for RENK transmission for K2.
The SNT transmission is designed to withstand a weight of more than 65 tonnes. My answer is, "Yes, enough for Altay." The DV27K engine to be integrated into Altay was developed based on the design of the ship engine designed 40 years ago. This engine is no longer capable of being improved.

It was also the decision of the South Korean Defense Ministry to reject domestic transmissions. SNT's transmission did not pass the basic endurance test proposed by the Ministry of Defence. Later, the Defense Agency for Technology and Quality (DaTQ) investigated that the Korean transmission failed to pass all six durability tests due to defects in the assembly process.

DaTQ describes the cause of the SNT transmission fault as follows:

In this study, failure analysis was carried out to investigate the occurrence of failure during the first article endurance tests of the 1,500 HP transmission for K2 MBT (Main Battle Tank). The occurrences. root causes, follow-up actions, and similar fallures during the development phase were comprehensively investigated and summarized during a total of six times endurance tests for the first article, In particular, the phased inspection was carried out to reveal the root cause of failure since an oil pressure drop below the specification range was observed in the 6th endurance test. The failure analysis of the bolt was conducted because the bolt failure was expected to be one of the causes of the oil pressure drop. As a result of the fractured surface observation of the bolt by SEM (Scanning Electron Microscope), obvious evidence of ductile fracture and some unapparent traces of fatigue crack propagation were observed, Furthermore, the mechanical properties and microstructural characteristics of the fractured bolt were found to fulfill the requirements of drawing. On the other hand, some of the bolts' neck rounds were below the dimensional requirement of drawing, and some of them were not satisfied with the requirements of the bolts' head shape in terms of dimensional accuracy. From a design point of view, the safety factor of the bolt head was found to be slightly insufficient because the safety factor was calculated as approximately 1 in the worst case. In addition, the assembly procedure requires improvement since the corner edge of the counterpart (pressure disc), which is fastened to the bolt, is likely to interfere with the neck of the bolt. Therefore, it was predicted that complexly entwined factors, such as the mixing of the bolts with insufficient dimensional accuracy, the relatively low safety factor of the bolt head in the worst case scenario, and misalignment of the bolt and counterpart during assembling process, would finally result in bolt failure and an oil pressure drop of the clutch in the range pack. The present investigation expected to serve as a reference for preventing the recurrence of similar cases in the future.

For those who are curious, we have added below a report on the cause of the defect on the EST15K transmission investigated by DaTQ.

Failure Analysis of the First Article Endurance Tests of 1,500 HP Transmission

 
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Nutuk

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This was the original production scheme, T1, T2 and T3 phases

I am inclined to say with so much fuck up with this Arjun Altay tank to skip T1 and T2 and directly go for T3 with the Roketsan turret
 

Rodeo

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Korea to the rescue once again. :D
The supply guarantee and reliability is above everything else. If we are to import these subsystems, even if it was a tier below of the competition, the contracts should be given to the most loyal to us. And I think this should have civil extensions as well. Korean companies should be favored against the northern Europeans in tenders.
 

Bogeyman 

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Turkey signs $200m deal with South Korean firm for Altay tank parts​

A South Korean firm will supply Turkey's national tank project Altay with transmissions to be used in its engines.

SNT Heavy Industries announced on Monday that it will supply Altay producer BMC with 1,500-horsepower automatic transmission for €200m ($217.9m) until 2030.

The company said the export deal includes €68.9m ($74.9m) worth of supply until 2027 and has an option for further sourcing priced at $141m between 2028-30.

The Altay project has been marred with supply issues after Germany imposed an arms embargo against Turkey after its 2019 offensive in northern Syria.

BMC, a Turkish-Qatari partnership, said last year that it would deliver the first two tanks in 2023, with plans to later deliver eight units a month for a batch of 100. BMC’s contract with the Turkish government eventually includes 1,000 tanks.

Ankara aims to produce its own engines and transmission but is looking for a stop-gap option to supply tanks until it comes up with its own. BMC won the tender to produce the tank in 2018 for €3.5bn.

Turkish media reported in May that Turkey successfully completed the ignition of its first nationally developed 1,500-horsepower engine, BATU, which will power various armoured vehicles and tanks, potentially including the Altay.

BMC Power developed the 12-cylinder, V-type, water-cooled and turbo diesel power unit. The engine will produce 1,500 horsepower and 4600 N-m of torque.

The South Korean company said the deal was signed after an eight-month-long test evaluation which included an endurance driving test last year.

“It is a valuable achievement through harsh test evaluation, such as completing a night-based driving of about 200km a day even in the local rough terrain and environment,” the company added.

The company also claimed that their transmission could perfectly replace the German parts.

BMC previously signed an agreement with Hyundai Doosan Infracore for the engines, but industry sources say there wasn't much progress on that front.
 

CAN_TR

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The good thing with South Korea is they don't b*tch around, don't give terms where and how to use it like some hypocrites*. It's a tank, a machine of war how does it sound to you when you buy a brandnew car and the dealer tells you "you can't use it offroad and don't pass X speed limits, otherwise..."

For example Poland if i remember correct were "kicked" out of the French-German MBT project, afterwards started talks with South Korea who btw. delivered the Tanks in a ridiculous short time. * likes to play around, delaying the deliveries of parts or even play the moral card (for weapons systems btw.).

I would favour military/defence cooperation with South Korea over Europe anyday.





*Germany
 

Angry Turk !!!

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The good thing with South Korea is they don't b*tch around, don't give terms where and how to use it like some hypocrites*. It's a tank, a machine of war how does it sound to you when you buy a brandnew car and the dealer tells you "you can't use it offroad and don't pass X speed limits, otherwise..."

For example Poland if i remember correct were "kicked" out of the French-German MBT project, afterwards started talks with South Korea who btw. delivered the Tanks in a ridiculous short time. * likes to play around, delaying the deliveries of parts or even play the moral card (for weapons systems btw.).

I would favour military/defence cooperation with South Korea over Europe anyday.





*Germany
Yeah. They truly act more like an ally than most of our official NATO "allies". So a big thanks to the Korean people. What times we live in huh...
 

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