TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[Agha Sher]

BMC starts the modernisation of 81 Leopard 2 A4s. This is after Rocketsan completed their modernisation of 40 tanks.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1638818612747309057

 

[Fighter_35]

BMC starts the modernisation of 81 Leopard 2 A4s. This is after Rocketsan completed their modernisation of 40 tanks.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1638818612747309057

Why this has been given to BMC?? If you read the package to be added , it seems almost everything will be under ASELSAN responsibility. But BMC will make profit from ASELSAN work!!

 

[Radonsider]

Ok why was TF-X given to TAI then? Subsystems are not TAI's.

Your reasoning is off.

Why this has been given to BMC?? If you read the package to be added , it seems almost everything will be under ASELSAN responsibility. But BMC will make profit from ASELSAN work!!
Fucking thieves!!

 

[Ryder]

Why this has been given to BMC?? If you read the package to be added , it seems almost everything will be under ASELSAN responsibility. But BMC will make profit from ASELSAN work!!
Fucking thieves!!

Its a project overseen by Bmc but Roketsan and Aselsan will be doing the subsystems.

I know you hate bmc but dont let your bias cover your judgement.

If aselsan was not getting a share of profit I doubt they would be in this project in the first place.

 

[Fighter_35]

Ok why was TF-X given to TAI then? Subsystems are not TAI's.

Your reasoning is off.

Then tell me what will BMC doing in this Leo upgrade package!! I haven't seen anything serious that BMC will do in the mentioned list. How could you compare tfx and Leo upgrade? ASELSAN already offered Leo upgrade and rockets an also applied 40 leo armour upgrade on time. So why we are giving Leo 2a4 upgrade to BMC?? Any serious comment?

 

[Radonsider]

Then tell me what will BMC doing in this Leo upgrade package!! I haven't seen anything serious that BMC will do in the mentioned list. How could you compare tfx and Leo upgrade? ASELSAN already offered Leo upgrade and rockets an also applied 40 leo armour upgrade on time. So why we are giving Leo 2a4 upgrade to BMC?? Any serious comment?

They are the integrator

 

[Fighter_35]

Its a project overseen by Bmc but Roketsan and Aselsan will be doing the subsystems.

I know you hate bmc but dont let your bias cover your judgement.

If aselsan was not getting a share of profit I doubt they would be in this project in the first place.

Of course ASELSAN will be getting profit due component sell to BMC, what I don't get is why would BMC will get any profit at all!! Why this has been given to BMC, when almost everything will be done by ASELSAN and roketsan!!

 

[Rodeo]

Off-topic posts are deleted. If you're of the opinion of a user violating forum rules, use the report button. Do not resort to ad-hominem.

 

[Fighter_35]

They are the integrator

Why is not ASELSAN integrator then? I am asking this! Leo upgrade package first offered by ASELSAN in idef 2011. So why we should give ASELSAN component integration to BMC??

 

[Radonsider]

Why is not ASELSAN integrator then? I am asking this! Leo upgrade package first offered by ASELSAN in idef 2011. So why we should give ASELSAN component integration to BMC??

Why is the ASELSAN not doing the job for TF-X then too?

 

[Fighter_35]

Why is the ASELSAN not doing the job for TF-X then too?

Are you kidding? ASELSAN had a tfx program and cancelled? Or ASELSAN already produced a fighter before? But ASELSAN made Leo 1 modernization and offered Leo 2 modernization package in 2011. Now ,proposed Leo modernization package will be mostly done with ASELSAN components and roketsan armour,however BMC integrates them,since ASELSAN and roketsan can not integrate their own components! Right?

 

[Radonsider]

Are you kidding? ASELSAN had a tfx program and cancelled? Or ASELSAN already produced a fighter before? But ASELSAN made Leo 1 modernization and offered Leo 2 modernization package in 2011. Now ,proposed Leo modernization package will be mostly done with ASELSAN components and roketsan armour,however BMC integrates them,since ASELSAN and roketsan can not integrate their own components! Right?

ASELSAN's Leo mod. was not ASELSAN's but Rheinmetall's

 

[Tornadoss]

ASELSAN's Leo mod. was not ASELSAN's but Rheinmetall's

No it was ASELSAN's solution but armor was from IBD.

 

[Bmx98]

Why is not ASELSAN integrator then? I am asking this! Leo upgrade package first offered by ASELSAN in idef 2011. So why we should give ASELSAN component integration to BMC??

Because they don't have the know-how nor the facilities to do the mass retrofitting and integration. The retrofit and integration of Leopard tanks is done at the Tank factory in Arifiye which has been leased to BMC.

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

New Altay with Korean powerpack, National contribution: %85, Suspensions will also be replaced with domestic equivalents and national contribution will increase more.

Source: https://www.defenceturkey.com/tr/icerik/bmc-savunma-yeni-altay-i-savunma-basini-ile-tanistirdi-5447

View attachment 55299 View attachment 55300

Anyone that can make a comparison between the Altay T3/T4, and the Abrams X?

 

[TheInsider]

Currently, Altay has around %85 nationality rate. National powerpack will contribute %10, national suspension system and national armor steel will also contribute several percent. Altay will have %99 nationality rate in 2025-2026.

If everything goes well, the Turkish powerpack will be ready for serial production in Q1 2025. At this point, It is not expected to face huge problems and delay more than a year so it will be available for serial production in 2026 in the worst case. It is better than the Korean powerpack but still falls short of MTU ( MTU 1800kg, BATU 2240kg, Doosan 2578kg). If everything goes well we might see Altay produced with a Turkish powerpack in 2025.

 

[Bogeyman]

Notes from BMC DEFENSE Press & Media Meeting Event (İbrahim Sünnetçi)

We will share our detailed news about the event with you in our new issue. At this stage, we will share with you the short information we gathered from the notes we took during the speeches made at the Radisson Blue Hotel and the comprehensive presentation made by BMC DEFENSE General Manager Mehmet KARAASLAN, as well as during the Facility Tour.

The 1st Main Maintenance Factory Directorate (ABFM), established in 1973, has an area of 1,814,000m2, of which 137.000m2 is closed area. The perimeter of the facility is 8.5 km.

· BMC DEFENSE has been operating the 1st Main Maintenance Factory Directorate (ABFM) of the Ministry of National Defense (MSB) since August 21, 2019. The operating right of the facility has been transferred to BMC DEFENSE for 25 years. The facility is the property of the Turkish Armed Forces and the Ministry of National Defense (MSB). BMC DEFENSE will return the facility and everything in it to the TAF at the end of the operational period. In accordance with the Transfer Protocol, all activities carried out at the facility are carried out under the permission and supervision of the TAF, and within this scope, the activities are supervised by 120 TAF/MSB personnel.

Within the framework of its investment commitment of US$50 Million, BMC DEFENSE has made a new investment of approximately US$10 Million in the last 3 years in order to renew and modernize the facility infrastructure.

· The IP rights of the products produced in the 1st ABFM, both New ALTAY AMT, motors and power groups, all belong to BMC and the State of the Republic of Turkey.

· Only Turkish engineers work at the facility, BMC Defense is a 100% Turkish company, IP rights belong to BMC DEFENSE as it designs its own.

· BMC DEFENSE company is a company that directly serves the TAF, serves the Turkish Nation, and its aim and ideal is to make the TAF go further and become stronger.

· A total of 430 personnel, including 288 White Collar and 142 Blue Collar, work in BMC Tank & New Generation Vehicles, and a total of 764 personnel, 161 White Collar and 603 Blue Collar, are employed at BMC DEFENSE. As of March 2023, a total of 1,194 personnel, 745 Blue Collar and 449 White Collar, are working in the 1st ABFM, together with BMC Tank & Next Generation Vehicles (TYNA), BMC DEFENSE and ASFAT/MSB personnel.

· According to BMC DEFENSE data, the efficiency rate in the 1st ABFM, which was 50% in 2020, reached 99% in 2022.

· Major armored vehicle projects currently being carried out by BMC DEFENSE; ALTAY AMT Mass Production Project, Leopard 2A4 AMT Modernization (Contract signed and started in 2023, 81 tanks will be modernized), Mine Clearance Tank Project, Tank Rescuer Project, New Generation FIRTINA Howitzer Project (140x), POYRAZ Ammunition Loading Vehicle Project (35x) ), New Generation Wheeled Vehicles Project (mobility tests are ongoing), and New Generation Tracked Vehicles Project (BMC DEFENSE is working on a project-specific tracked armored vehicle).

· Previously T.C. It was concluded that the facilities to be established in Karasu on the land transferred to BMC DEFENSE for 49 years by the state are not very efficient in terms of the operation of the defense sector. Especially since it was decided that Ankara, where the defense industry sector is clustered, is a more correct place, BMC DEFENSE started the procedures for the transfer of the land in Karasu to the state in the same way. The state allocated that land to another company within the framework of its own procedures, just as it allocated it to BMC.

· He bought a plot of land in Ankara, in Ankara Aerospace and Aviation Specialized Organized Industrial Zone, right next to TUSAŞ, by paying the fee for the new facility and meeting the financing himself. Now it is establishing a modern production base there. The mass production of the new ALTAY AMT will be carried out at the new facilities being established in Ankara. The 1st ABFM in Arifiye will continue to do what it used to do. There is nothing to be lost from here, nothing to go from here. The 1st ABFM BMC DEFENSE Ankara facilities will continue to produce in the same way as before they were put into operation, even the production numbers and product range will increase, and will even start exporting products starting from 2023.

· BMC DEFENSE Ankara Production Facility will be built on an area of 840.000m2, and the total indoor area will be 165,527m2. BMC Power will also have an area of 70,000m2 in the new facility, where an area of 400,000m2 is planned for BMC Tank & Next Generation Vehicles (TYNA). There is also a reserved area of 75,000m2.

The production/final assembly activities of the 2 New ALTAY AMTs equipped with the Korea Power Group, which are currently on the final assembly line, are scheduled to be completed in early April. It is aimed to complete the necessary tests until the delivery ceremony to the TAF, which is envisaged as April 23, 2023. These 2 tanks will then be subjected to a series of tests by the Turkish Armed Forces. It is expected that these 2 new ALTAY AMTs will enter TAF service by completing the test process in 2024. 2 In the new ALTAY AMT, a new 120mm diameter, 55 caliber (L55) smoothbore-less Main Weapon System produced by MKE is used.

In 2025, Mass Production of New ALTAY AMTs will begin with the Korean Power Group and the tanks will enter TAF service. Production Plan was prepared in accordance with the construction plan of BMC DEFENSE Ankara facilities.

New ALTAY AMTs, equipped with BATU Power Group, will be delivered to the TAF as of the second half of 2026, at the end of the 2-year test period. Starting from 2026, the production of the New ALTAY AMT will continue with the domestic and national power group BATU.

· In order not to cause the mass production schedule to be delayed by making serious changes in the basic design of the hull and turret (otherwise, additional testing and qualification processes will be required), no volume changes have been made in the power group pool located at the rear of the ALTAY AMT body/chassis for the integration of the Korean Power Group. Necessary changes are made only in the connection points in the power group pool section. The Korea Power Group has been adapted to fit into the existing power group pool. The same is true for the BATU Power Group. BATU Power Group is also designed to enter into the same envelope (volume).

There are 12 ammunition racks on the right and left of the driver's compartment in the chassis. In the light of the experiences gained both in the operations and operations carried out by the TAF and in the Russia-Ukraine War, necessary measures in the New ALTAY AMT (isolated hull ammunition configuration) ) has been received.

· A production capacity of up to 100 tanks per year is planned at the Ankara Production Facility. 20-30 of these are considered for the export market. The mass production speed of the New ALTAY AMT, which will start with 4-5 units per month, will increase depending on the learning curve and will reach the level of 8 units per month. It is planned to produce and deliver 250 tanks in a period of approximately 5 years (2025-2030).

The reason for the delay of the ALTAY Program is that the power group from Germany and some subsystems and components from Germany and some other Western countries were not delivered to Turkey. These countries refused to give these power groups and other components to Turkey, using some of the operations the TAF was carrying out at that time as an excuse. Therefore, the tank became unmanufacturable. Upon this, the TAF took a decision and asked the BMC to manufacture and localize the components related to the power group and subsystems, which the foreign states did not give to Turkey, in order to eliminate foreign dependency in a highly strategic land combat vehicle like the AMT.

The delay experienced in the ALTAY Project also allowed the redesign of ALTAY AMT, which was designed and developed according to the wishes and expectations of the Turkish Land Forces in the light of the threat environment and experiences of the 2000s. In this context, in the light of the experience gained in the operations and operations carried out by the TAF beyond our borders, and within the framework of the new needs that emerged during the Russia-Ukraine War, a number of additional capabilities were provided to ALTAY AMT and many critical subsystems were renewed and localized.

· New ALTAY AMT; AKKOR Active Protection System, Improved Armor System, Renewed Fire Control System, Renewed Vehicle Control System, ASELSAN ÖRÜMCEK 360° Perimeter Surveillance and Laser Warning System (YAMGÖZ Perimeter Surveillance System and Tank Laser Warning System/TLUS were replaced, AKKOR Active Protection System, Tank It operates in full compatibility with on-tank subsystems such as the Fire Control System and SARP Remote Controlled Weapon System) and has a number of improved and additional capabilities such as the Modified (Korean) Power Group. Also on the tank; Deceleration (German product, localized), Sniper 2nd Degree Sight System (German product, localized), Track System (Korean product pallets will change with local pallets starting from T2 tanks), Coaxial Machine Gun (German product, localized), Turret Ring Gear (German product, localized) ), Rotor (Korean product, localized), Tow Hook (Korean product, localized), Ammunition Rack (German product, localized), Periscopes, Fuel and Hydraulic Pumps (German product, localized), Hydraulic Coupling and Shaft, Bilge Pump, Fuel Pump, Preheat Sub-systems such as the pump, the Mobile Concealment Network (a new generation of mesh-type camouflage solution similar to the SAAB product Barracuda Mobile Camouflage System [MCS], which significantly reduces both the visual, thermal and radar trace of the tank) are localized. Therefore, New ALTAY has superior capabilities compared to ALTAY AMT, whose contract has been signed for Mass Production.

The total weight of the kilometer-long cabling on the new ALTAY AMT is over 500kg.

· By replacing the South Korean product hydro-pneumatic ISU Suspension System used in New ALTAY AMT, which still has a domestic contribution rate of 85%, with a domestic product in the Mass Production Phase, the domestic contribution rate will be further increased.

· Since a 6-7 year period is foreseen for the production, testing and qualification of the power pack and subsystems in our country, it was decided to supply a power group from another source and put some tanks into service with this power group, so that the TAF would not be without a tank during this period. In the meantime, studies have been carried out within the scope of the integration and adaptation of the Korean Power Group to ALTAY AMT. Performance tests were carried out under the supervision of TAF and SSB officials in Arifiye and Şereflikoçhisar between April and December 2022, with the prototype tank (new production New ALTAY AMT) equipped with localized subsystems and evenings, as well as the Korean Power Group. Within the scope of these tests, shootings were also carried out. A short video of the production and performance (mobility and shooting) tests of the Yen ALTAY AMT prototype equipped with the aforementioned Korea Power Group was shown to the members of the press during the BMC DEFENSE Press & Media Meeting event.

· The new ALTAY AMT prototype has successfully completed the aforementioned tests carried out under the supervision of TAF and SSB officials, and the tank has been accepted by the TAF. However, the testing process continues. With the 2 New ALTAY AMTs to be delivered in April, survivability, strength and firing tests will be carried out in a period of 1.5-2 years. In response to our question about whether the 10,000km test hysteresis was met in the performance tests conducted with the Korea Power Group in 2022, it was shared that they could not share a figure on how many kilometers were tested, but that the testing process is still ongoing. Necessary permits were obtained for the supply of the Korean Power Group to be used in tanks, and all commercial, legal and interstate agreements were signed. Therefore, there is no obstacle for BMC DEFENSE for the Mass Production of the New ALTAY AMT.

· The new ALTAY AMT can also be exported together with the Korea Power Group. According to BMC officials, requests in this direction have been received from friendly and allied countries.

· In ALTAY and similar AMTs, the share of the power group in the total tank cost is around 10%.

· BMC DEFENSE uses armor steel from Miilux OY in its armored vehicles. As there is a need for thicker armor steel in ALTAY AMT, armor steel is also supplied from Finland. When we reminded the press last January that Finland approved the export license for the export of 12.000 tons of armor steel to BMC, BMC DEFENSE officials said that this order is not a new one, but a previous order, and that the armor steel to be supplied will be supplied by both New ALTAY AMT and ALTUĞ. They stated that it will be used in TTZA Programs. Underlining that they will use domestically produced armor plate in their own products, BMC DEFENSE pointed out that although Miilux OY has reached the pilot production and testing stage for some thicknesses of armor steel, it has not reached the mass production and delivery stage, so the need is being met from Finland.

· One BATU Power Group will be prepared in April and will be operated unloaded at the test center for the first time. Afterwards, integration activities will be started on the tank and operational tests will be carried out on the tank in phases.

· Dry weight of BATU Diesel Engine is given as 2.240kg. In open sources, the dry weight of the South Korean DV27K Diesel Engine is 2.578kg, and the dry weight of the German MT883 Ka-501CR Diesel Engine is 1.800kg.

BMC SAVUNMA Yeni ALTAY`ı Savunma Basını ile Tanıştırdı!

9 Kasım 2018 tarihinde imzalanan Euro3.5 Milyar değerindeki ALTAY AMT Seri Üretim Sözleşmesi altında Türk Kara Kuvvetleri Komutanlığı’na 40 adedi T1, 210 adedi T2 ve 1 adet insansız kuleli T3 prototipi olmak üzere üç ayrı konfigürasyonda toplam 251 adet Yeni ALTAY Ana Muharebe Tankı ile Entegre...

www.defenceturkey.com

 

[Huelague]

 

[Era_shield]

There are 12 ammunition racks on the right and left of the driver's compartment in the chassis. In the light of the experiences gained both in the operations and operations carried out by the TAF and in the Russia-Ukraine War, necessary measures in the New ALTAY AMT (isolated hull ammunition configuration) ) has been received.

This is great news. Look at all the other refinements done to the tank, this delay might turn out to be a gift in disguise.

 

[Anmdt]

Why is the ASELSAN not doing the job for TF-X then too?

We all know it is not BMC but the factory that has capabilities of refitting Leopards. It is the factory doing, BMC getting the credits and profits.

Imo, this is not ethical. BMC shouldn't be getting credits for the capabilities that were readily available in the factory before them.