TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[Afif]

We are not gonna have fully autonomous areal combatants before 2040, let alone fully autonomous ground combatants. Not to mention, land domain is much more complex and complicated than the areal domain.

 

[UkroTurk]

How many kilometers away from the offense zone do tanks turn off their radios?
When they arrive at their duty areas, do they attack without communication among themselves?
Does it matter anymore if they turn on a radio in the area they are attacking?

Unmanned ground vehicles can be transferred via GPS without signal communication.
Anyway, let's assume that GPS signals are also scrambled or GPS devices are turned off to avoid detection.

There are also inertial Navigation systems.

Army chooses inertial navigation from Honeywell to provide vehicle navigation in GPS-denied environments

Honeywell TALIN is for military vehicles and main battle tanks, artillery, radar stabilization, missile launchers, and military survey applications.

www.militaryaerospace.com

https://www.unmannedsystemstechnology.com/company/emcore-corporation/geo-fog-3d-ins-fiber-optic-gyro-based-inertial-navigation-system/

Thanks to new image processing technologies, unmanned vehicles can follow the manned vehicle in the camera image.

Even Chinese EV have This technology and capability.

They can even follow the manned guide vehicle with their thermal cameras. When unmanned ground vehicles arrive in the operational area silently, they can turn on all signal communications. In other words, they can apply the attack tactics of manned tanks. I don't see any shortcomings.

C'mon guys , an UAV or a soldier with thermal camera could detect a manned tank battalion from long distance.

Even on a flat desert surface you can't suppress any signal further than 30km with EW.

 

[UkroTurk]

I really wonder what is the lifespan of MTU 883 engine. Because high torque wears down engine quickly.

There is no information about Leopards overhaul time on internet!!!



Some interesting facts about M1 Abrams. ( Source: Quora)

*The engine life for a Abrams engine is 2,000 hours new and 700 hours for a rebuilt engine. With at said, Abrams are usually sent back to an overhaul at a nominal 6,000 operating miles for the US Army and about 3,000 (not exactly sure) for the US Marines. I say nominal because use a formula and can reduce the hours depending on stateside operation or combat use, weight of vehicle (additional armor or equipment added), etc. As a result, many Abrams are sent back for overhaul because it reaches the mileage limit before the engine limit.

*The M-1 turbine engine has a life expectancy of at least 1,400 Hrs. The T-72 initially had an engine with a life span of a WW2 Soviet tank but over time they got better with longer life spans but still a faction of wester life spans.



*275 to 300 miles’ range on average. The turbine is very thirsty but it’s also pretty darn powerful. It can take that 70+ ton vehicle to a governed speed of 43–45 mph on road or relatively level off-road ground but actual ungoverned speed is upwards of 70 mph! From zero to 20 mph is faster than some cars. It works out to an average between 1.2–1.4 gallons per mile.

(Hopefully) Interesting factoid: the M1s tubine uses the same amount (roughly) of fuel at 20mph as it does at idle. However, at 20 mph it sucks in about 150 times the volume of air as it does at idle!

This is why I consider it an efficient fighting machine … though I’m glad I don’t have to “feed” one!

 

[UkroTurk]

https://www.cummins.com/news/releases/2021/07/30/us-army-awards-cummins-inc-87m-contract-deliver-advanced-combat-engine

Guys opposite free piston engines are coming for US Army.
( one cylinder two pistons)
Most probably US army next gen MBT will have this.

ACE’s innovative OP technology provides a 50% increase in power density, a 20% reduction in heat rejection, and 13% improved fuel efficiency when compared to today’s best in class combat engine. ACE’s flexible layout options allow the engine to be configured in 3 cylinder, 4 cylinder, and 6 cylinder arrangements to deliver power ranging from 750 to 1,500 horsepower. ACE can be integrated into hybrid architectures enabling commonality, thereby eliminating the expensive logistical burden of having multiple combat powertrains and facilitating the incorporation of new electrified technologies.


Conventional v shaped 15liter diesel engine produces 750hp.

But this box shaped 10liter engine produces 1000hp!!!

With Cummins Again Achates company!

Military Vehicles - Achates Power

The Achates Power OP Engine supports modern military vehicles with updated, efficient, fuel-flexible technology to reduce logistics cost and burdens and protect the warfighter.

achatespower.com

Could we see this engine as generator in future electric MBT?

 

[boredaf]

Guys opposite free piston engines are coming for US Army.
( one cylinder two pistons)
Most probably US army next gen MBT will have this.



25%fuel efficiency
25%heat reducing.

Conventional v shaped 15liter diesel engine produces 750hp.

But this box shaped 10liter engine produces 1000hp!!!

Again Achates company!
View attachment 63237

Could we see this engine as generator in future electric MBT?

Mate, at least let us master the diesel engine for Altay first before coming up with future possibilities of an electric tank.

 

[UkroTurk]

Mate, at least let us master the diesel engine for Altay first before coming up with future possibilities of an electric tank.

We seem to be solving outdated problem." Conventional diesel ICE , transmission, Powerpack " those are our current problem right?

Especially we are in trouble with transmission which is today totally outdated. We are in the new electric ERA. Electric motors don't need transmissions which causing power losses.


We should try to copy and transform Ukrainian TD-6 engine which is identical to free opposite piston engines. It would be generator of Altay. That's all. Easy. All problem is solved.

Boşuna kendimizi parçalıyoruz motor, transmisyon diye. Artık bunların modası geçti. Hem subap, şaft ekstra maliyet .
Eski motorlar yakıt verimli değil. Transmisyon güç kaybettiren ilkel bir alet. Transmisyon çağdışı.

Eski teknolojilerin peşinden koşmaya ne gerek var.

Ukrayna motorunu jenaratör yapmalılar. Elektrik motoru üretimine yönelmeliler.

Kendi kendini şarj eden elektrikli tank yapmak varken, bokla püsürle niye uğraşılır ki?

I am hundred percent sure Abrams X will have this technology. Sonra bizde kafamızı dikelim niye Ukrayna motorundan istifade etmedik diye.

 

[boredaf]

T

We seem to be solving outdated problem." Conventional diesel ICE , transmission, Powerpack " those are our current problem right?

Especially we are in trouble with transmission which is today totally outdated. We are in the new electric ERA. Electric motors don't need transmissions which causing power losses.


We should try to copy and transform Ukrainian TD-6 engine which is identical to free opposite piston engines. It would be generator of Altay. That's all. Easy. All problem is solved.

There isn't a single electric motor powered tank right now, and even the one that is most likely to be cutting edge, Abrams X, will run on a diesel-electric hybrid engine. We are solving todays problems with todays reliable and proven solutions as we cannot afford a mistake or misstep.

 

[UkroTurk]

T

There isn't a single electric motor powered tank right now, and even the one that is most likely to be cutting edge, Abrams X, will run on a diesel-electric hybrid engine. We are solving todays problems with todays reliable and proven solutions as we cannot afford a mistake or misstep.

We are trying to solve the problem which doesn't exist.

Tank transmission?? Peh.

Cummins already supplied those engines. We are looking for trouble.

We must create an electric motor for Altay! not a transmission!!. (Engine) generator is ready from Ukraine.

 

[boredaf]

We are trying to solve the problem which doesn't exist.

Tank transmission?? Peh.

Cummins already supplied those engines. We are looking for trouble.

We must create an electric motor for Altay! not a transmission!!. (Engine) generator is ready from Ukraine.

Mate, you're the one trying to solve a non-existent problem, in multiple threads with multiple posts for some reason. You do realize that the engine you're giving as an example that "we're looking for trouble" will be working with transmission, ACT-1000, right?

Cummings' engines has a different technology than what we are going with Batu but it is still a diesel engine. US has two new programs one is for a new MBT and another for armoured vehicle and both are going to be either diesel or diesel-electric hybrid. Completely electric MBTs might be a thing in the future but we need solutions right now.

Our companies have experience in various diesel engines and the infrastructure and knowhow is there for Batu. To make a electric engine that might be able to power a tank as heavy as Altay reliable we would need to start from ground up. From designs and development to facilities to build and test them it is a far too long process for a tank that is already delayed way too long. And not just that, you want us to rely on a foreign engine while we wait for all that process to complete.

What we are doing is the most risk-free way of getting what we need, an engine that we know how to build and that we can use on other platforms for a long time while we look for other technologies. And I am absolutely glad that we are not considering even more delays just to jump onto the next big thing .

 

[UkroTurk]

If someone could explain why should we prefer investing and developing in a mechanic transmission (plus less fuel efficient heavy big engine) rather than hybrid electric drive , i will quit.

Moreover next 30 years we will have to maintain those transmission and engines.

Series hybrid IFV!!

 

[Merzifonlu]

Bad news! BMC's CEO Prof. Murat Yalçıntaş resigned! What a bad luck you have, Altay!

My friends, there is a big problem somewhere. First G. Okumuş from Tubitak Sage, then M. Yalçıntaş from BMC...

Moreover, these problems are happening at a very dangerous time when mistakes can never be compensated for. The Ukraine War will almost spread to surrounding countries, and the Pacific region will almost explode.

 

[UkroTurk]

If our projects were bound to just one person, we were doomed. Behind the scene a load of talented organizations.

 

[Zafer]

Bad news! BMC's CEO Prof. Murat Yalçıntaş resigned! What a bad luck you have, Altay!

My friends, there is a big problem somewhere. First G. Okumuş from Tubitak Sage, then M. Yalçıntaş from BMC...

Moreover, these problems are happening at a very dangerous time when mistakes can never be compensated for. The Ukraine War will almost spread to surrounding countries, and the Pacific region will almost explode.

Seems to me that they are trying to solve the problem of projcts not moving fast enough. Which is a good thing. Remember İsmail Demir was talking about aviation having something to do with blood. No one is allowed to drag projects like that.

 

[Sanchez]

If true, Altay serial production is delayed again from Q4 2025 to 2026. In Jan 2023 it was stated that with tests and and factory being completed, production would start at late 2025.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1746877758301434171

We also haven't heard from Batu in a long while. Thank god for the Koreans.

 

[Nutuk]

I would say OK we have a certain problem with Altay tank production but why are the M60's and Leopard 2A4's still not upgraded.

Looks to me that we have a tank problem that goes further than Altay somehow

 

[uçuyorum]

I would say OK we have a certain problem with Altay tank production but why are the M60's and Leopard 2A4's still not upgraded.

Looks to me that we have a tank problem that goes further than Altay somehow

Sounds like a decision making, planning and general organizational problem.

 

[Merzifonlu]

IMO, delayed mass production is not a problem, but delayed BATU&UTKU Power Pack is a big problem. I question the necessity of a heavy tank, but not the necessity of a power pack that is powerful enough to move heavy tanks and at the same time compact. Because we will need that power package and its technology in other places as well. Especially in unmanned marine vehicles, New T-155's and heavy armored personnel carriers.

 

[Strong AI]

IMO, delayed mass production is not a problem, but delayed BATU&UTKU Power Pack is a big problem. I question the necessity of a heavy tank, but not the necessity of a power pack that is powerful enough to move heavy tanks and at the same time compact. Because we will need that power package and its technology in other places as well. Especially in unmanned marine vehicles, New T-155's and heavy armored personnel carriers.

The first 85 Altay MBT will be produced with korean powerpack, so i do not think, that this news (if true) is an indicate for a delayed BATU

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1725241699679518721

 

[B_A]

I would say OK we have a certain problem with Altay tank production but why are the M60's and Leopard 2A4's still not upgraded.

Looks to me that we have a tank problem that goes further than Altay somehow

I think the money went to the air force and navy and missiles.The plan of land force always delayed

Even the old ACV-15 still not replaced by arma or pars.

Korean has a similar size armed force with us but had 2 or 3times much budget than us.

 

[Strong AI]

If true, Altay serial production is delayed again from Q4 2025 to 2026. In Jan 2023 it was stated that with tests and and factory being completed, production would start at late 2025.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1746877758301434171

We also haven't heard from Batu in a long while. Thank god for the Koreans.

Prof. Dr. Murat Yalçıntaş | 10 December 2023: "ALTAY MBT serial production will start at end of 2025 or early 2026"

(40:45)