TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[adenl]

For urban warfare you better choose a IFV, Tanks are not really that effective.

Yes you go ahead in a BMP-1 while I watch from my souped up Leotay how you get obliterated by RPG's.

A lot of times you need to blow up an entire appartement floor or a large room with enemies inside. Can do with a tank, can't with an IFV.

Pound for pound the Leotay is better than the Korhan in urban fighting, even-though they come with the same sensors, detectors and APS. Not to talk about the psychological effect of an MBT vs and IFV.

 

[CAN_TR]

Yes you go ahead in a BMP-1 while I watch from my souped up Leotay how you get obliterated by RPG's.

A lot of times you need to blow up an entire appartement floor or a large room with enemies inside. Can do with a tank, can't with an IFV.

BMP-1? i'm more talking about IFV's such as the new BMC 8X8, Tulpar, Kaplan-20...
Do you actually know what a 30mm round would do to terrorists hidding behind walls? or airburst ammo?

 

[Huelague]

with new technology, it doesn't make much difference anymore to be honest...

You only think on modern ATM. But not every enemy has Javelin in his inventory. In an asymmetric warfare, most are using older Russian ATM. In this case, the angle of armor can be useful.

 

[Orkunhun]

in urban warefare isnt it better to use ifv and mortar systems or medium w. tanks?

Use of mortar systems together with UAV and UGV systems seems to me to be a wieser choice instead of any manned operation with tanks or IFVs in narrow streets full of traps, hedges and trenches.

In general we should even discuss more the use of unmanned turrets for tanks as a step for unmanned tanks.

On the other side, use of ordinary tanks without effective APS is pure invitation to massacre.

 

[Ghost soldier]

in urban warefare isnt it better to use ifv and mortar systems or medium w. tanks?

Speaking about urban warfare it's true that using armor might be useless to to threats but many thanks have modifications that enable to sustain urban environment witt situational awarness
Example TUSK kit with abrams

I think that altay should have similar mod with era and rpg cage to minimize armor damage

 

[Ghost soldier]

BMP-1? i'm more talking about IFV's such as the new BMC 8X8, Tulpar, Kaplan-20...
Do you actually know what a 30mm round would do to terrorists hidding behind walls? or airburst ammo?

Problem is without aps or IED protection then it would be a suicide sending ifvs without infanry support or recon

 

[Brave Janissary]

According to whom is this the case ?

MKEK - Makina ve Kimya Endüstrisi Kurumu

www.mkek.gov.tr

Specs of ammo almost equal to m829a1 silver bullet. Also penetrator type is unkown. Specs of M829a1 almost same with dm33.

On the other hand we taked 120 mm k279 apfsds from korea for tests of altay.

 

[AzeriTank]

MKEK - Makina ve Kimya Endüstrisi Kurumu

www.mkek.gov.tr

Specs of ammo almost equal to m829a1 silver bullet. Also penetrator type is unkown. Specs of M829a1 almost same with dm33.

On the other hand we taked 120 mm k279 apfsds from korea for tests of altay.

it fly with mach 5 speed, impressive

 

[Brave Janissary]

it fly with mach 5 speed, impressive

Without speed they are just tungsten pens.
But sad to say contreary to heat, apfsds's loose speed when reach to target it's just a first speed.

 

[Orkunhun]

Hybrid powering makes advances in military technology.
In order not be in a situation as we are regarding diesel engines and transmissions today, we have to enter this technology heavily, now!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1352541588992438279

 

[AzeriTank]

Hybrid powering makes advances in military technology.
In order not be in a situation as we are regarding diesel engines and transmissions today, we have to enter this technology heavily, now!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1352541588992438279

UK MoD awards contracts to trial hybrid electric drives on Foxhound, Jackal 2

The UK’s NP Aerospace has been awarded a GBP3 million (USD3.9 million) contract to demonstrate hybrid electric drive systems on the UK’s Foxhound protected mobility...

www.janes.com

 

[Combat-Master]

Three Otokar produced prototypes of Altay,

 

[Combat-Master]

Anatolian Leopard

 

[adenl]

Anatolian Leopard
View attachment 12895

Still not 100% sure whether this is an Altay turret or a heavily upgraded Leo II turret. I'll try to figure it out though.

My preliminary conclusion is that it is an Altay turret. Will soon reveal my MS paint skills

 

[Combat-Master]

Still not 100% sure whether this is an Altay turret or a heavily upgraded Leo II turret. I'll try to figure it out though.

I can help you out with that, it's not a leopard 2A4 turret. But the mantlet and cannon definitely is from Leopard 2A4.

 

[adenl]

I can help you out with that, it's not a leopard 2A4 turret. But the mantlet and cannon definitely is from Leopard 2A4.

Yes, this turret has more similarities with the Altay turret, but with some Leo II style modifications.

 

[Glass🚬]

After that rocketsan Upgrade the other leo's should receive that altay turret Upgrade.

 

[adenl]

A bit cumbersome to use paint for this one because the differences are minute.

This Leotay turret features an L44 gun with either the Leopard 2 mantlet, but up-armored (the armor extends more forward and higher than on the Leo2 or Altay) or the Altay mantlet but also up-armored. This Leotay mantlet features a gunners auxiliary sight in the style of the Leopard 2, which is different from the Altay, whose auxiliary sight is situated on top of the mantlet. This either means that the mantlet is a Leo 2 mantlet or a heavily modified Altay mantlet, which borrows the auxiliary sight location of the Leo 2. This Leotay mantlet is so modified that I can't say for sure what its origin is, either the Altay or Leo 2. But I am leaning more towards a modified, up-armored Altay mantlet with the auxiliary sight moved to within the mantlet.

The undersides of the turret front armor follows the outlines of the Altay turret more than the Leo 2 turret. The Leotay turret misses the characteristic Leo 2 indents on the underside of the front cheeks, on both sides of the mantlet.

The weird 'knob' (which I have no idea what its purpose is, could be NBC related??) on the side of the Leotay turret is present on the Altay but not on the Leo 2.

The location of the gunners sight and commander's sight is the same as on the Altay. As well as the RCWS

The location of the hoist-points is the same as on the Altay, albeit a bit different.

The arrangement and amount of smoke grenades are the same as on the Altay.

The position of the APS is the same as on the Altay.

The position of the laser waring systems and 360 degree camera's on the corners of the turret, is the same as the upgraded Altay presented at IDEF '19, but different than the earlier Altay PV-1/2 configuration.

This is enough for me to conclude that this is indeed an Altay turret in origin, though heavily modified with extra front, roof and side turret armor and of course the rest of the sensors and gizmo's.

This turret is still a prototype though, looking at the dummy place holders for the optical sights, the RCWS misses the electro-optical sensors and the radars for the APS are just cosmetic panels. It still needs a lot of work and testing I think. This upgrade is far from being accepted by the army but it does look very promising.

Thanks to @Stimpy75 for the IDEF '19 photo's of the Altay.

 

[Yasar_TR]

MKEK - Makina ve Kimya Endüstrisi Kurumu

www.mkek.gov.tr

Specs of ammo almost equal to m829a1 silver bullet. Also penetrator type is unkown. Specs of M829a1 almost same with dm33.

On the other hand we taked 120 mm k279 apfsds from korea for tests of altay.

This sabot round is very fast. Initial velocity of sabot rounds are between 1400-1900 m/s. But the aerodynamic performance of the round, weight of sabot, the tip geometry and tip material is important factors for penetration power.
American m829A2 and A3 have muzzle velocities of 1675m/s and 1575m/s respectively with 9kg weight for the former and 10kg weight with depleted uranium tip for the latter. This gives better penetration value to the latter. The amount of speed it loses at 4-5 km will not be big enough to effect it’s penetration power. (Depleted uranium keeps melting at impact and naturally keep sharpening it’s tip as it penetrates through metal).
But to be able to make our own sabot rounds is great news.

 

[Brave Janissary]

This sabot round is very fast. Initial velocity of sabot rounds are between 1400-1900 m/s. But the aerodynamic performance of the round, weight of sabot, the tip geometry and tip material is important factors for penetration power.
American m829A2 and A3 have muzzle velocities of 1675m/s and 1575m/s respectively with 9kg weight for the former and 10kg weight with depleted uranium tip for the latter. This gives better penetration value to the latter. The amount of speed it loses at 4-5 km will not be big enough to effect it’s penetration power. (Depleted uranium keeps melting at impact and naturally keep sharpening it’s tip as it penetrates through metal).
But to be able to make our own sabot rounds is great news.

I just researched him and I find him it's licenced copy or derrivated from İsreal M322 apfsds.