TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[TheInsider]

I agree with, in fact it's corruption more it's a bad management . BMC will lose the trust of SSB and TSK since they showed bad project handling . Yet I personally believe the what erdo did ( if what @TheInsider said is ture ) the the right move to end this shitstorme before losing the international market .

The project is still at the hands of BMC. If nothing happens in a week or two maybe in a month expect the project to stay at BMC.

 

[BordoEnes]

I brought big news about BMC and Ethem Sancak.
Qatari shareholders complained to Erdogan about Ethem Sancak and Talip Öztürk and they have good reasons to complain. Erdogan phoned Ethem and swore at his face after he was told that Altay tank with a fully qualified Turkish powerpack (engine and transmission) can't leave the production line before 2025.
Ethem and Talip Öztürk forced to sell their shares in BMC. Talip Öztürk survived the shit storm without much damage as Ethem Sancak was responsible for operations.
Erdo gave the mission of buying Ethem's and Talip's shares to Tosyalı Holding. Specialists from Tosyalı Holding executed a damage control analysis and see that they should stop new factory project and quit Altay tank to make the company profitable. Erdo didn't like that solution. Tosyalı told Erdo that Altay can't be produced before 2025 since the Turkish powerpack will be fully qualified on the tank in late 2024 at the best. Erdo phoned and tasked SSB (Ismail Demir )to find a powerpack for Altay. Luckily Korean powerpack is available(including Korean transmission) but the integration of the Korean powerpack has to start soon to complete tests on the Altay in 2022 and get the first tank in early 2023. Erdo wants Altay in 2023 before the elections at all costs. It is rumored that Erdo considers taking the Altay project from BMC and giving it to a more experienced company and he wants no further delays while the Korean powerpack is integrated and tested on Altay.

I don't like to point out people who have repeatedly defended BMC, but I am genuinely curious what @Inspector_spacetime has to say about it.

 

[Manomed]

I brought big news about BMC and Ethem Sancak.
Qatari shareholders complained to Erdogan about Ethem Sancak and Talip Öztürk and they have good reasons to complain. Erdogan phoned Ethem and swore at his face after he was told that Altay tank with a fully qualified Turkish powerpack (engine and transmission) can't leave the production line before 2025.
Ethem and Talip Öztürk forced to sell their shares in BMC. Talip Öztürk survived the shit storm without much damage as Ethem Sancak was responsible for operations.
Erdo gave the mission of buying Ethem's and Talip's shares to Tosyalı Holding. Specialists from Tosyalı Holding executed a damage control analysis and see that they should stop new factory project and quit Altay tank to make the company profitable. Erdo didn't like that solution. Tosyalı told Erdo that Altay can't be produced before 2025 since the Turkish powerpack will be fully qualified on the tank in late 2024 at the best. Erdo phoned and tasked SSB (Ismail Demir )to find a powerpack for Altay. Luckily Korean powerpack is available(including Korean transmission) but the integration of the Korean powerpack has to start soon to complete tests on the Altay in 2022 and get the first tank in early 2023. Erdo wants Altay in 2023 before the elections at all costs. It is rumored that Erdo considers taking the Altay project from BMC and giving it to a more experienced company and he wants no further delays while the Korean powerpack is integrated and tested on Altay.

lol they are doing something that had to be done much more earlier I hate these guy even more

 

[Kartal1]

Give it to FNSS and lets end that circus. We have to start the T2 fast and commence deliveries right after the T1 deliveries without slowing down. We have to see at least a prototype in 2023-2024.

The systems in the video have to be put out of concept and prototypes must be built even if they are not unmanned. The most of the systems inside are not something out of touch and I am sure our companies and especially Aselsan can do it in short time. Enough experience is gathered by developing and also implementing subsystems and modernization programs. Now it is time for our tank to come to life.

 

[Abdelaziz]

I think the blame bmc recieves is to a large extent unfair ... The only problem with the tank is the power pack .. there were no solutions till recently with the korean power pack .. which is still new and will be used for the first time (engine+tran) in a single platform .. it will need quitely longer duration .. erdogan need the tank befor 2023 elections and he put a massive pressure on them .. but these steps needs time .. we can really rate bmc performance when they have a ready to use packs and then there job start .. beside they did well with bmc power .. they have a prototype of 1500 ,1000 600 400 powerpacks which are expected to be put in service within the coming 5 years .. building an engine is a time consuming process as we know ..
Its normal that the new owners ahve different aproches and views for the company .. this iscompletly normal ..they may see some projects as non profitable and the may decide go make a reform .. dont exaggerate things
These problems aiuld occure every where with all companies

 

[LegionnairE]

I think the blame bmc recieves is to a large extent unfair ... The only problem with the tank is the power pack .. there were no solutions till recently with the korean power pack .. which is still new and will be used for the first time (engine+tran) in a single platform .. it will need quitely longer duration .. erdogan need the tank befor 2023 elections and he put a massive pressure on them .. but these steps needs time .. we can really rate bmc performance when they have a ready to use packs and then there job start .. beside they did well with bmc power .. they have a prototype of 1500 ,1000 600 400 powerpacks which are expected to be put in service within the coming 5 years .. building an engine is a time consuming process as we know ..
Its normal that the new owners ahve different aproches and views for the company .. this iscompletly normal ..they may see some projects as non profitable and the may decide go make a reform .. dont exaggerate things
These problems aiuld occure every where with all companies

BMC was a decent truck manufacturer before the government seized it and gave it to Erdo's man Ethem. They turned this company into a political toy and the purpose of this company has become making a tank for propaganda purposes while making Erdo's cronies a lot of money.

10 years ago BMC trucks were much more popular. Nowadays it's rare to see them. Personally I have never seen a BMC Tuğra in traffic. If the politics didn't get involved and they just kept doing their damn job, they could have added some value to the Turkish economy and more qualified companies would have made Altay a reality. They chose the easy path. Why bust your ass trying to make good products while you can just take money from the government?

At this point they deserve every bit of hate that they get.
Not because they failed to make the tank but because they are corrupt bastards.

 

[Ryder]

What is the use of giving the tank to another company by now?
With the current rate, even if the Altay tank was transferred to another company, it wouldnt be ready before 2024

Erdo's problem is that he viewed Arabs and those with Arab origin as ppl with brain who can do shit; Arabs in general knows nothing except money
I mean what will swearing on Ethem do? Nothing! Te guy probably escaped Turkey by now
Now the Altay tank project is screwed and CHP wont sit quiet and I agree with them for once tbh.

I think its money in the end. Anybody can be a parasite just with money.

If ethem sancak has not been taken to trial this shit is going to repeat itself again and a again. For sure there is many like him. If Erdogan calls himself a leader he should put him to trial for embezzlement but I think Erdogan wont do this since him and sancak are pals.

Pathetic!! man the defence of the nation and its interests should not be joked around.

I hope Tosyali cleans the swamp. It seems his serious as his taking bmc out of projects that are impossible for them to do and out of their league.

Bmc should not bother making tanks. They should stick to whatever they feel they are good at rather than trying to be the jack of all trades.

 

[TheInsider]

I think the blame bmc recieves is to a large extent unfair ... The only problem with the tank is the power pack .. there were no solutions till recently with the korean power pack .. which is still new and will be used for the first time (engine+tran) in a single platform .. it will need quitely longer duration .. erdogan need the tank befor 2023 elections and he put a massive pressure on them .. but these steps needs time .. we can really rate bmc performance when they have a ready to use packs and then there job start .. beside they did well with bmc power .. they have a prototype of 1500 ,1000 600 400 powerpacks which are expected to be put in service within the coming 5 years .. building an engine is a time consuming process as we know ..
Its normal that the new owners ahve different aproches and views for the company .. this iscompletly normal ..they may see some projects as non profitable and the may decide go make a reform .. dont exaggerate things
These problems aiuld occure every where with all companies

This is simply not true. The powerpack is not the only problem. BMC has no tank and tracked vehicle production or tracked vehicle upgrade capability in general. There are a dozen MTU powerpacks available but BMC can't produce the tank. Leopard modernization offer was a joke BMC welded Altay turret on top of a Leo2A4. That turret has no stabilization can't turn left and right. There is no modernized Leo2 prototype that is in mobility or fire tests. The military factory was given to BMC so that BMC can retool it to produce main battle tanks guess what up to this day that ability couldn't be gained. BMC says it will gain the ability by 2022 but patience is running thin. The first T-155 Fırtına-II is produced by the military factory, not by BMC. BMC contributed nothing to it other than adding its own profit over the price.

 

[Elaser]

Let wait till the korean powerpack is ready to be integrated into Altay before attacking Bmc.

Besides no one would prefer to have Altay instead of the TB2... Turkey is not under threat of armored invasion so it can wait...

 

[Saithan]

I think the blame bmc recieves is to a large extent unfair ... The only problem with the tank is the power pack .. there were no solutions till recently with the korean power pack .. which is still new and will be used for the first time (engine+tran) in a single platform .. it will need quitely longer duration .. erdogan need the tank befor 2023 elections and he put a massive pressure on them .. but these steps needs time .. we can really rate bmc performance when they have a ready to use packs and then there job start .. beside they did well with bmc power .. they have a prototype of 1500 ,1000 600 400 powerpacks which are expected to be put in service within the coming 5 years .. building an engine is a time consuming process as we know ..
Its normal that the new owners ahve different aproches and views for the company .. this iscompletly normal ..they may see some projects as non profitable and the may decide go make a reform .. dont exaggerate things
These problems aiuld occure every where with all companies

It's not even BMC fault because without RTE and AKP the company would not even have qualified for the tender in the first place.

The blame is on RTE as the sole responsible person, as he made the deal and even managed to get "discount" at the signing.

I can understand the need to calling out people who has defended them and BMC, pulling all kinds of lame excuses and pretending that nothing is wrong with the process. But we'll see what happens, I assume pro RTE ppl will play the three monkeys.

 

[Eagleeye]

you guys ruined the thread with your political obsession for bmc and erdogan

 

[Skyfall]

Pages and pages of nonsense about BMC and AK Party. Mostly conspiracy theories and hearsay, no facts, no sources. Very little information about the tank itself. Its a real shame. The same guys are not really interested in defence but obsessed with propaganda.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Let us leave the political side of the Altay project to one side.
Everyone knows what happened and why, in their own way.
Important point is, with current situation where are we? Can we have a MBT production line churning out Altay Tanks in numbers? If so! When? Which company is most qualified to go ahead with Altay and Firtina?
Let us take a page from @TheInsider ‘s posts and discuss the facts. Not should have beens and would have beens.
I personally can’t see this project going forward in it’s current make-up. A serious and rational change has to be implemented.

 

[Combat-Master]

Pages and pages of nonsense about BMC and AK Party. Mostly conspiracy theories and hearsay, no facts, no sources. Very little information about the tank itself. Its a real shame. The same guys are not really interested in defence but obsessed with propaganda.

It's hilarious - the only problem facing Altay is the Powerpack. Yet we have a bunch here yapping on about BMC's inability to assemble a Tank - when next door we have Greek ELVO who've assembled Leopard 2A6HEL.

This is all political riffraff and tribalism that's guiding posts here - no facts and no logic.

 

[Saithan]

As we talked about previous the Altay MBT was built up around the powerpack, so surely we need a powerpack that has the same dimensions or smaller. I don't remember if we had talked about whether the SK engine would fit without any changes.

But I am looking forward to who gets it. It would be very funny if Otokar gets it.

 

[Skyfall]

Once the power pack is ordered we should expect BMC to start production. I don’t really think anything is possible until the power pack is agreed. It’s not like the tanks can be rolled out and an unknown engine added afterwards. What is important now is the progress with the factory, but if the tank palet factory will be used for initial production then I don’t see why there is any rush. It would be a real scandal if a factory was built and the tank program was later cancelled or serious changes were made.

 

[Tornadoss]

It's hilarious - the only problem facing Altay is the Powerpack. Yet we have a bunch here yapping on about BMC's inability to assemble a Tank - when next door we have Greek ELVO who've assembled Leopard 2A6HEL.

This is all political riffraff and tribalism that's guiding posts here - no facts and no logic.

It's not only Altay though, we are still waiting BMC solution for Leopard modernization, aren't we?

 

[Combat-Master]

It's not only Altay though, we are still waiting BMC solution for Leopard modernization, aren't we?

Do you reckon it's an easy task to slap on a new turret and yell yallah, habbibti into battle we go? Don't you think it will have to go through multiple phases of tests, from mobility to firing.. like the Altay had to..


--BTW--
I'm no fan of BMC's leopard upgrade proposal, we should have taken the cost-effective route - Roketsan Add-On armour and Aselsan upgraded electronics.

 

[TheInsider]

Leo2A4 upgrade project(LeoTay) isn't progressing because BMC has no capability to produce the Altay turret. BMC is working hard on gaining that capability.

 

[TheInsider]

It's hilarious - the only problem facing Altay is the Powerpack. Yet we have a bunch here yapping on about BMC's inability to assemble a Tank - when next door we have Greek ELVO who've assembled Leopard 2A6HEL.

This is all political riffraff and tribalism that's guiding posts here - no facts and no logic.

ELVO assembles Leo2. You buy something from IKEA come home and assemble it. BMC will produce Altay. This is inherently different from assembling. Most of the subsystems will come from other providers but there are also things BMC will produce.