TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[Combat-Master]

ELVO assembles Leo2. You buy something from IKEA come home and assemble it. BMC will produce Altay. This is inherently different from assembling. Most of the subsystems will come from other providers but there are also things BMC will produce.

Name those things that BMC will produce, I'm curious.

Greeks producing Leopard 2A6HEL

HULL

Turret

 

[TheInsider]

Name those things that BMC will produce, I'm curious.

I can't name 6k parts.

'Kirpi'yi bütün ordular istiyor, onları sıraya koyduk'

BMC Yönetim Kurulu Başkanı Sancak, 'Kirpi' diye dünya markası olan bir aracı üretiyoruz ordumuza. Kirpiyi diğer bütün ordular da istiyor, onları sıraya koyduk. Bazı ülkeler istiyorlar, onlara 2020, 2022'ye tarih veriyoruz." dedi. - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

Altay tankının ise 36 bin parçadan oluştuğunu belirten Sancak, BMC olarak bunun 6 bin parçasını üreteceklerini aktararak, "Yüzde 18'i BMC'nin malıdır, yüzde 72'si KOBİ'lerimizindir." dedi.

 

[Combat-Master]

I can't name 6k parts.

'Kirpi'yi bütün ordular istiyor, onları sıraya koyduk'

BMC Yönetim Kurulu Başkanı Sancak, 'Kirpi' diye dünya markası olan bir aracı üretiyoruz ordumuza. Kirpiyi diğer bütün ordular da istiyor, onları sıraya koyduk. Bazı ülkeler istiyorlar, onlara 2020, 2022'ye tarih veriyoruz." dedi. - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

You can't name 6k parts because you don't know.

Also, this article doesn't give any idea of the level of complexity of BMC's 6,000 parts production out of 36,000 parts for Altay..

 

[TheInsider]

I have never claimed that I know. What I claimed is a good portion of the tank will be produced(not assembled) by BMC and I proved it.

Now you tell me how many parts ELVO is producing? What is the contribution of ELVO? They are not even responsible for the quality of the end product and system integration. ELVO is just a subcontractor for the assembly. On the other hand, BMC is the main contractor and system integrator like KMW. If those things were so easy suddenly companies start outsourcing everything like lego pieces to create a perfectly working major products.

 

[Huelague]

7 years ago when Altay was first designed, it was the best MBT in the world.

BMC stole the chance from more experienced, more competent companies and did fuckall with it.

The tank became obsolescent before it was even produced. At this point it would make more sense to cancel the project and develop an Altay-2 with an unmanned turret like T-14 Armata.



I've been talking about the technical side of this tank since early 2010s. I'm not going to debate the same old shit forever, I have a life. You're free to go read up old news if you're so interested.

I swear you people are instagrammers of the firearm world. This is like porn to you. you just want to come here, look at the gun pics and have a good wank. If the topic gets any deeper you quickly lose interest. It's too much thinking for you

Altay is not obsolete if you think on 50 yrs old tanks we still use.

 

[Huelague]

If you think about the fact that Altay has the same 4-man configuration with the 3-man turret as M48 Patton. You'll see my point.

I think the advantages of the unmanned turret are so obvious that it makes the old configurations obsolescent if not obsolete.

Because we can't really upgrade the current tanks into a new configuration, we need a complete redesign.

Is a 4-man Altay tank able to fulfil its requirements?

 

[Combat-Master]

What a mind job! And in 3D. Are the BMC engineers qualified to assemble anything better than Hatehof Navigator?

Well, if you weren't living under a rock for the past couple of months BMC showcased their Altug 8x8 and also had footage of integrating indigenous Azra engine into it.

I have never claimed that I know. What I claimed is a good portion of the tank will be produced(not assembled) by BMC and I proved it.

Now you tell me how many parts ELVO is producing? What is the contribution of ELVO? They are not even responsible for the quality of the end product and system integration. ELVO is just a subcontractor for the assembly. On the other hand, BMC is the main contractor and system integrator like KMW. If those things were so easy suddenly companies start outsourcing everything like lego pieces to create a perfectly working major products.

You're the one laying down accusations with no solid footing, what exactly is BMC finding it difficult to do and can you provide a source?

I'm not going to slide this thread into what offsets Greeks got in the production and assembly of Leopard 2A6HEL. Every new Leopard that's being produced, hull and turret come from Greece. You claimed BMC can't produce Turret, our next-door neighbour who has no design capability is producing them and exporting them.

 

[Kartal1]

Rumor is that the BMC is planning on recycling inactive Leopard 2A4 turrets as a result of Leo-Tay (a.k.a the Frankenstein) project. M48s under Naval Infantry Command are to be upgraded to Leo48 status.
News is evaluated as BMC’s commitment to environmental protection!

Is this serious or sarcastic?

 

[TheInsider]

Well, if you weren't living under a rock for the past couple of months BMC showcased their Altug 8x8 and also had footage of integrating indigenous Azra engine into it.



You're the one laying down accusations with no solid footing, what exactly is BMC finding it difficult to do and can you provide a source?

I'm not going to slide this thread into what offsets Greeks got in the production and assembly of Leopard 2A6HEL. Every new Leopard that's being produced, hull and turret come from Greece. You claimed BMC can't produce Turret, our next-door neighbour who has no design capability is producing them and exporting them.

Greeks are not producing hull and turret they are welding German steel. BMC is second to none when it comes to welding things together to create a rigid body. There are so many things inside that hull. Gears, hydraulics, servos, compartments, cables, sensors too many to name.

The hard part is the system integration and making sure all works well. Process engineering, setting up/modernizing a production line. BMC=ELVO with some modification and design capability. BMC is good at welding things and assembling things with some modification capability on existing wheeled platforms like Kirpi. But BMC has to be KMW to successfully complete the Altay project because producing an exactly identical tank with the Otokar blueprint is not enough. Most of the subsystems have major differences from the Otokar era (2016). Aselsan offers a completely new electronics package. You need to do some EMI/EMC tests with the new electronic setup. The turret is redesigned and some stability, mobility tests have to be done again. Integration of a new powerpack even an off-the-shelf one is a challenge that has to be overcome. The only certified powerpack of Altay is euro powerpack. Some subsystems that are under embargo have to be changed with their local counterparts. When you do that you had to make sure that the new parts are working as intended.

In the engines department, BMCPower(it is a completely different company and is independent of BMC) is doing great. BMCPower is on its way to creating an engine family in such a short time. BMCPower is having problems with the 1500hp rated transmission though. It was supposed to be running for the first time around/ right after IDEF but this is not the case at the moment. We will see if this is a minor setback or requires a serious redesign.

 

[Saithan]

Let’s not forget that BMC managed to haul in a lot of engineers after the government support, so perhaps some of them are good at what they do, but the project manager isn’t.

 

[Combat-Master]

Let’s not forget that BMC managed to haul in a lot of engineers after the government support, so perhaps some of them are good at what they do, but the project manager isn’t.

A foreign embargo on a critical component (engine) of the MBT is a point in which to smear BMC at being poor at managing projects?

Does it get any better lmao...

 

[Combat-Master]

"Minister Kang Eun-ho, responsible for the Defense Procurement Program (DAPA) in South Korea, said that he signed the declaration of intent on the Altay tank engine supply today."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1451460294744629248

Let's hope the S.Korean powerpack can pass 10,000km mobility tests.

 

[Saithan]

A foreign embargo on a critical component (engine) of the MBT is a point in which to smear BMC at being poor at managing projects?

Does it get any better lmao...

Well my comment was in regard to BMC upgrade of Leo. Perhaps you thought it was an excellent job ?

 

[Combat-Master]

Well my comment was in regard to BMC upgrade of Leo. Perhaps you thought it was an excellent job ?

I have no reason to think it's a bad job.

 

[Combat-Master]

Leopard modernization offer was a joke BMC welded Altay turret on top of a Leo2A4. That turret has no stabilization can't turn left and right.

We can see who the real joke is;

 

[Elaser]

We can see who the real joke is;

Eventhough turret is welded to the hull it still is flexible...right?

 

[Combat-Master]

Eventhough turret is welded to the hull it still is flexible...right?

BMC is so advanced they've mastered flexible welds and stabilization on the X-axis.

 

[Elaser]

BMC is so advanced they've mastered flexible welds and stabilization on the X-axis.

Yes no need for complex nbc system

 

[Nutuk]

How many Leopard 2A4 mod have been delivered?

Either none or we do not hear SSB talking about deliveries

 

[Abdelaziz]

How many Leopard 2A4 mod have been delivered?

Either none or we do not hear SSB talking about deliveries

Is there is a contract ? BMC introduced a prototype but no contract yet have been received