TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[Radonsider]

Or it will have an internal limiter for acceleration

 

[Fairon]

We need to get rid off m48s

We can do that with either Tulpar or Kaplan to be honest and I think this would be more beneficial. (Considering marines also using M48 as well).

 

[Saithan]

Too early to celebrate. I’ll wait for the first deliveries.

 

[Ryder]

M48s should be sold as surplus ome of them should also be used as cannon fodder tanks.

 

[Huelague]

What will be the unit cost of one Altay tank?

 

[Yasar_TR]

What will be the unit cost of one Altay tank?

There is an English saying;
How long is a piece of string?
it indicates that something cannot be given a finite measurement.
Originally, the BMC had won the 250 tank order with a bid of 3.5 billion Euros. If that is still valid or not; But that then meant 14 million Euros per tank. But we didn’t know what that included. e g Akkor? additional ERA?
It will all depend on the new power pack cost and how much profit “the new owners” will want to make.
Whatever will be will be. People are so fed up with the handling of the whole issue that the price at the moment is a secondary point. It has become a matter of national prestige now. Let us produce a few dozen first. Then we can fight over how expensive it is or not. Think of it as a prototype initial production run.

 

[Manomed]

There is an English saying;
How long is a piece of string?
it indicates that something cannot be given a finite measurement.
Originally, the BMC had won the 250 tank order with a bid of 3.5 billion Euros. If that is still valid or not; But that then meant 14 million Euros per tank. But we didn’t know what that included. e g Akkor? additional ERA?
It will all depend on the new power pack cost and how much profit “the new owners” will want to make.
Whatever will be will be. People are so fed up with the handling of the whole issue that the price at the moment is a secondary point. It has become a matter of national prestige now. Let us produce a few dozen first. Then we can fight over how expensive it is or not. Think of it as a prototype initial production run.

Will it be T1 or T2?

 

[Radonsider]

iirc T-2

 

[Manomed]

iirc T-2

good T1 isn't good anymore

 

[Ecderha]

You all forget something!
It happened all time!
When West saw that Turkiye succeed with embargoed parts -> then they just change behavier and send a person or a Notification that Turkiye from NOW on Can get their part/platform without Any Greed % applied before.

So Let see are MTU will bend over for Turkiye

 

[Huelague]

There is an English saying;
How long is a piece of string?
it indicates that something cannot be given a finite measurement.
Originally, the BMC had won the 250 tank order with a bid of 3.5 billion Euros. If that is still valid or not; But that then meant 14 million Euros per tank. But we didn’t know what that included. e g Akkor? additional ERA?
It will all depend on the new power pack cost and how much profit “the new owners” will want to make.
Whatever will be will be. People are so fed up with the handling of the whole issue that the price at the moment is a secondary point. It has become a matter of national prestige now. Let us produce a few dozen first. Then we can fight over how expensive it is or not. Think of it as a prototype initial production run.

That’s ridiculous. No matter what, how much additional ERA or APS they want to mount or add of ammunition.

 

[Radonsider]

There is an English saying;
How long is a piece of string?
it indicates that something cannot be given a finite measurement.
Originally, the BMC had won the 250 tank order with a bid of 3.5 billion Euros. If that is still valid or not; But that then meant 14 million Euros per tank. But we didn’t know what that included. e g Akkor? additional ERA?
It will all depend on the new power pack cost and how much profit “the new owners” will want to make.
Whatever will be will be. People are so fed up with the handling of the whole issue that the price at the moment is a secondary point. It has become a matter of national prestige now. Let us produce a few dozen first. Then we can fight over how expensive it is or not. Think of it as a prototype initial production run.

Also, 14 million per tank is not actually 14 million per tank

That number also includes powepack development, nationalising subsystems, establishing centres etc

 

[Baljak]

@Windchime @Baljak

As I mentioned several times in the forum, the most important thing in Altay's power pack integration process is the transmission, not the engine. The Korean DV27K engine has been tested and certified by the Ministry of National Defense Also, this is not a problem because the Korean engine is designed to withstand up to 70 tons of weight.

From the start of Altay development, the engine planned to be used for Altay was MTU MT-883 Ka-501. because the ROC of Altay's drive system was the same as K2.

The MT-883 Ka-501 engine is a short stroke engine. However, the DV27K engine is a long stroke engine that produces high torque at low RPM. The dry weights of MT-883 ka501 and DV27K are 1,800 kg and 2,550 kg. The short-stroke engine is relatively compact with a small weight, but the long-stroke engine is heavy due to the inherent limitations of the cylinder's structure. Germany has unique technology in the field of 1500hp short-stroke diesel tank engines. Realistically, South Korea's current engine technology cannot develop 1500hp short-stroke tank engines such as the MT-883 Ka-501.

When using the MT-883 Ka-501 engine on the K2, the acceleration was 7 seconds and the DV27K was 8.7 seconds. Altay was also developed as a main battle tank with heavy armor, but the K2 is a mobility tank for operation in mountainous terrain. Anyway, these two engines have different cylinder structures, but they're tank engines with 1500hp, and they have the same maximum speed.

Also, when we talk about the durability of the transmission, we should pay attention to the fact that the Korean transmission is not just a problem of durability, but a design defect. If the durability of the transmission is a problem, the transmission must be redesigned completely, but if it is a defect in a simple part, it can be solved by improving the product.

In addition to the forum, Turks often mention groundless misinformation about Korean power packs on Twitter, and the transmission currently being tested in Altay is a transmission with improved design defects. It is too early for us to judge in advance that Korean power packs do not pass Altay's durability test.

 

[Radonsider]

As I mentioned several times in the forum, the most important thing in Altay's power pack integration process is the transmission, not the engine. The Korean DV27K engine has been tested and certified by the Ministry of National Defense Also, this is not a problem because the Korean engine is designed to withstand up to 70 tons of weight.

From the start of Altay development, the engine planned to be used for Altay was MTU MT-883 Ka-501. because the ROC of Altay's drive system was the same as K2.

The MT-883 Ka-501 engine is a short stroke engine. However, the DV27K engine is a long stroke engine that produces high torque at low RPM. The dry weights of MT-883 ka501 and DV27K are 1,800 kg and 2,550 kg. The short-stroke engine is relatively compact with a small weight, but the long-stroke engine is heavy due to the inherent limitations of the cylinder's structure. Germany has unique technology in the field of 1500hp short-stroke diesel tank engines. Realistically, South Korea's current engine technology cannot develop 1500hp short-stroke tank engines such as the MT-883 Ka-501.

When using the MT-883 Ka-501 engine on the K2, the acceleration was 7 seconds and the DV27K was 8.7 seconds. Altay was also developed as a main battle tank with heavy armor, but the K2 is a mobility tank for operation in mountainous terrain. Anyway, these two engines have different cylinder structures, but they're tank engines with 1500hp, and they have the same maximum speed.

Also, when we talk about the durability of the transmission, we should pay attention to the fact that the Korean transmission is not just a problem of durability, but a design defect. If the durability of the transmission is a problem, the transmission must be redesigned completely, but if it is a defect in a simple part, it can be solved by improving the product.

In addition to the forum, Turks often mention groundless misinformation about Korean power packs on Twitter, and the transmission currently being tested in Altay is a transmission with improved design defects. It is too early for us to judge in advance that Korean power packs do not pass Altay's durability test.

We got the info of Korean transmission performing not so well in Altay by İbrahim Sünnetçi, but maybe he meant "Not as good as Renk transmission"

 

[Manomed]

As I mentioned several times in the forum, the most important thing in Altay's power pack integration process is the transmission, not the engine. The Korean DV27K engine has been tested and certified by the Ministry of National Defense Also, this is not a problem because the Korean engine is designed to withstand up to 70 tons of weight.

From the start of Altay development, the engine planned to be used for Altay was MTU MT-883 Ka-501. because the ROC of Altay's drive system was the same as K2.

The MT-883 Ka-501 engine is a short stroke engine. However, the DV27K engine is a long stroke engine that produces high torque at low RPM. The dry weights of MT-883 ka501 and DV27K are 1,800 kg and 2,550 kg. The short-stroke engine is relatively compact with a small weight, but the long-stroke engine is heavy due to the inherent limitations of the cylinder's structure. Germany has unique technology in the field of 1500hp short-stroke diesel tank engines. Realistically, South Korea's current engine technology cannot develop 1500hp short-stroke tank engines such as the MT-883 Ka-501.

When using the MT-883 Ka-501 engine on the K2, the acceleration was 7 seconds and the DV27K was 8.7 seconds. Altay was also developed as a main battle tank with heavy armor, but the K2 is a mobility tank for operation in mountainous terrain. Anyway, these two engines have different cylinder structures, but they're tank engines with 1500hp, and they have the same maximum speed.

Also, when we talk about the durability of the transmission, we should pay attention to the fact that the Korean transmission is not just a problem of durability, but a design defect. If the durability of the transmission is a problem, the transmission must be redesigned completely, but if it is a defect in a simple part, it can be solved by improving the product.

In addition to the forum, Turks often mention groundless misinformation about Korean power packs on Twitter, and the transmission currently being tested in Altay is a transmission with improved design defects. It is too early for us to judge in advance that Korean power packs do not pass Altay's durability test.

Im confident about korean transmission and engine.

 

[Radonsider]

Im confident about korean transmission and engine.

I am confident with those too, also Batu engine, just, not the transmission

 

[Saithan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573257459619463171

Challenges on establishing ecosystem for Altay.

 

[Fairon]

We got the info of Korean transmission performing not so well in Altay by İbrahim Sünnetçi, but maybe he meant "Not as good as Renk transmission"

Yes but after that the narrative is changed. İbrahim Sünnetçi also suprised by this. Because apparently both of the information(powerpack integration is not going well and it is actually going well) have the same source.

Is this either a misunderstanding or something is changed behind the scenes.

We will see what happens but as it seems until we see the serial produced Altay's we can't be sure of anything.

 

[Ecderha]

As I mentioned several times in the forum, the most important thing in Altay's power pack integration process is the transmission, not the engine. The Korean DV27K engine has been tested and certified by the Ministry of National Defense Also, this is not a problem because the Korean engine is designed to withstand up to 70 tons of weight.

From the start of Altay development, the engine planned to be used for Altay was MTU MT-883 Ka-501. because the ROC of Altay's drive system was the same as K2.

The MT-883 Ka-501 engine is a short stroke engine. However, the DV27K engine is a long stroke engine that produces high torque at low RPM. The dry weights of MT-883 ka501 and DV27K are 1,800 kg and 2,550 kg. The short-stroke engine is relatively compact with a small weight, but the long-stroke engine is heavy due to the inherent limitations of the cylinder's structure. Germany has unique technology in the field of 1500hp short-stroke diesel tank engines. Realistically, South Korea's current engine technology cannot develop 1500hp short-stroke tank engines such as the MT-883 Ka-501.

When using the MT-883 Ka-501 engine on the K2, the acceleration was 7 seconds and the DV27K was 8.7 seconds. Altay was also developed as a main battle tank with heavy armor, but the K2 is a mobility tank for operation in mountainous terrain. Anyway, these two engines have different cylinder structures, but they're tank engines with 1500hp, and they have the same maximum speed.

Also, when we talk about the durability of the transmission, we should pay attention to the fact that the Korean transmission is not just a problem of durability, but a design defect. If the durability of the transmission is a problem, the transmission must be redesigned completely, but if it is a defect in a simple part, it can be solved by improving the product.

In addition to the forum, Turks often mention groundless misinformation about Korean power packs on Twitter, and the transmission currently being tested in Altay is a transmission with improved design defects. It is too early for us to judge in advance that Korean power packs do not pass Altay's durability test.

Issue was that there ARE two separate OFFICIAL information about "power pack integration process "

1. They said test on Altay tank are almost finish and THERE ARE ISSUE with power pack. Even more they said that power pack transmission FAILED and there are workshop is going on to analysis how this can be overcome.
Government officials said at that time that result is BAD and FAIL.

2. At present government officials saying another things about Korean "power pack integration will be used and integrated to initial Altay production"
Both information contradict each other!?

So at moment I personally have some Reservation about all information Said . Lets wait and see what will happend

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Mr Ismail Demir: "We have applied Altay technology to the tanks we have. The capabilities of our tanks are no longer the same as they were 5-6 years ago."