TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[Umigami]

but couldn't the same hull have been remodelled? meaning the hull armour isn't too much tougher than an IFV's or does the strength of the Hull not matter as it is a light tank?

Well, our army requirements are STANAG level 5 for front armour and 4 for side.

 

[Umigami]

Kaplan MTprototype

Kaplan MT first article

As we can see here. Even the first prototype isn't really the same with first article. Suggesting there were a design process happen here. It's not existing hull at all.

 

[Tsenal]

Is the Kaplan an actual tank or is it an IFV hull with an Cockeril turret on top?

I'm asking since i recently came across an FNSS IFV that looks extremely like the Kaplan.

IFV's have rear ramp door with 10+ troop capacity. Kaplan is a traditional tank.

 

[No Name]

Kaplan MTprototype
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Kaplan MT first article
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As we can see here. Even the first prototype isn't really the same with first article. Suggesting there were a design process happen here. It's not existing hull at all.

yep your right.

 

[Merzifonlu]

We have around 2500 M48 tanks and we have been able to keep them operational. Why don't we replace the turrets of these tanks with unmanned turrets and turn them into armed unmanned ground vehicles? They can provide serious firepower support.

 

[No Name]

We have around 2500 M48 tanks and we have been able to keep them operational. Why don't we replace the turrets of these tanks with unmanned turrets and turn them into armed unmanned ground vehicles? They can provide serious firepower support.

Russia try that, and it failed you need soldiers to protect the tank which sort of gets rid of the advantage of an unmanned platform.

 

[YeşilVatan]

We have around 2500 M48 tanks and we have been able to keep them operational. Why don't we replace the turrets of these tanks with unmanned turrets and turn them into armed unmanned ground vehicles? They can provide serious firepower support.

We should be looking into converting those into unmanned platforms with new turrets. They can be a serious boon in static lines such as the Syrian situation. Wouldn't be much help in mobile, fast operations though.

Gotta stress I'm not an expert. What do you guys think? Is that doable?

 

[Merzifonlu]

Russia try that, and it failed you need soldiers to protect the tank which sort of gets rid of the advantage of an unmanned platform.

We are not Russia! If the task description is done correctly for drones, this will work.

 

[boredaf]

Or, we could just use the chassis, and get them a new turret (plus armor upgrades) to turn them into support vehicles, something like Russian BMPT Terminator with autocannons, grenade launcher and whatnot.

 

[Afif]

We have around 2500 M48 tanks and we have been able to keep them operational. Why don't we replace the turrets of these tanks with unmanned turrets and turn them into armed unmanned ground vehicles? They can provide serious firepower support.

I guess, you mean fire support for infantry?
it would be a really good idea, specially for urban operations.

Or, we could just use the chassis, and get them a new turret (plus armor upgrades) to turn them into support vehicles, something like Russian BMPT Terminator with autocannons, grenade launcher and whatnot.

Why not do both? some 105mm turret like @Merzifonlu suggested and others with 30mm auto cannons.

Anyway, i just think m48 is too old to deserve this kind of investments.
Turkish army needs new generation platforms in the long run.

 

[No Name]

Or, we could just use the chassis, and get them a new turret (plus armor upgrades) to turn them into support vehicles, something like Russian BMPT Terminator with autocannons, grenade launcher and whatnot.

The Terminator was a failure.

 

[Afif]

The Terminator was a failure.

You mean the program or the operational concept?

 

[No Name]

I guess, you mean fire support for infantry?
it would be a really good idea, specially for urban operations.

Why not do both? some 105mm turret like @Merzifonlu suggested and others with 30mm auto cannons.

Anyway, i just think m48 is too old to deserve this kind of investments.
Turkish army needs new generation platforms in the long run.

You mean like the Kaplan tank?

 

[No Name]

You mean the program or the operational concept?

I think it might be both as it is hard to tell with Russia.

 

[boredaf]

Why not do both?

Mainly because you can take a lot of weight off and use that to give it an armor upgrade, or so I thought, and, we already have more than enough M60s to upgrade with 105mm turrets. But, as you said, it is very old and I'm not sure whether it'd worth the trouble or not either.

 

[boredaf]

The Terminator was a failure.

I wouldn't judge any concept with how it did with Russian military. That's why I said something like that, if it is feasible/logical.

 

[YeşilVatan]

I thought of something;

Do you guys think if we turned M48s into unmanned, half-mobile defensive platforms it would be good? The would help boost firepower and detection capabilities near the defensive position without risking the lives of the personnel. It would be easy to set up a new defensive position because, just park the tanks. If they are taken out, it's bad but no personnel is lost and you can do counter-fire with something else. Honestly I don't see any bad side to this other than maybe sensors would be a little pricey.

This is a Turkiye-specific solution though. We have static lines that are constantly being probed by small teams of terrorist-insurgents wielding ATGMs. We have the firepower to blast through everything, it's just that the politics and international relations and stuff doesn't allow it.

 

[No Name]

I wouldn't judge any concept with how it did with Russian military. That's why I said something like that, if it is feasible/logical.

To be fair, I did say it was hard to tell with Russia., anyway I found a video that goes over the BMPT Terminator and how it might have been used by them. here.

 

[Afif]

You mean like the Kaplan tank?

In a broader sense i am referring to future ACV 15 replacement.
But it seems Turkish army instead procuring new platform, they are modernizing the existing ones for now.
However, with a good amount of Altay battalions becoming fully operational there will be a need for new generation platform like Tuplar to augment it.

 

[Afif]

I thought of something;

Do you guys think if we turned M48s into unmanned, half-mobile defensive platforms it would be good? The would help boost firepower and detection capabilities near the defensive position without risking the lives of the personnel. It would be easy to set up a new defensive position because, just park the tanks. If they are taken out, it's bad but no personnel is lost and you can do counter-fire with something else. Honestly I don't see any bad side to this other than maybe sensors would be a little pricey.

First and foremost, you really need to find conceptual application of such platform within Turkish military doctrine.
And i dont see any.

This is a Turkiye-specific solution though. We have static lines that are constantly being probed by small teams of terrorist-insurgents wielding ATGMs. We have the firepower to blast through everything, it's just that the politics and international relations and stuff doesn't allow it.

To protect border against insurgents, motorized/light mechanized infantry is much better than tank.