One can make it cheap by ordering in great numbers. Anyway army may order these again in greater number in future.
- Thread starter Joe Shearer
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Tata, Mahindra and Kalyani...they all fielded their MRAPs in Ladakh last year...M4 was better hence selected.
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It all comes down to who offered the highest and most lucrative kickbacks. Nevertheless, this is only an order for 30...we'd have to see who gets the larger order. I hope they distribute instead of giving it all to a single entity (similar to how IA ordered both Tata Safari Storme & Mahindra Scorpio albeit the later in relatively fewer numbers) for the collective upliftment of our private defence industry
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IA is expected to go with this Olive Green paint scheme...to keep in line with the 3200 units of Tata Safari Stormes and1000+ Mahindra Scorpios they've taken delivery of and their signature Woodland Camo. The Bfgoodrich all terrain tyres sporting on the showcase models are for the middle eastern market. Indian models will likely get MRF all-terrain tyres
Mahindra ASLV
Tata Safari Storme
Mahindra Scorpio
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This is exactly why IA went on to order 1300 Mahindra ALSVs. It's the same with Tonbo imaging systems and sights where IA found out during a joint exercise with a NATO country where their troops were using Tonbo sights and praised them how good they were...IA dumbf*cks looked clueless wondering an Indian company is able to produce such good products
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It long time coming but even this circuitious route is welcome (given state of affairs earlier), in doing its bit to slay that babudom monster over time. I hope as many do their part increasingly this route, so the end for this kind of babudom comes as soon as possible.
i.e (private company) develop product ....sells to foreign militaries....foreign military trains with India.....Indian babu suddenly faces pressure from own earlier argument (of phoren approval is ultimate standard...thus phoren maal must be first thing considered etc).
The larger entrenched psychology (of which defence is just a small but apex spear part) of foreign-worship and lack of self-belief (bordering on self-hate with lot) combined with control freak attitude (it was like this for me, so it shall be for you and all others).....has costed India by now unknown trillions of dollars of GDP realised in a year....and far more trillions in total wealth.
The re-awakening/renaissance is directly tied to the amount of defeat inflicted on this psychology....and as much of it retreating from power-cabals as possible.
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After Mahindra, now TATA set to bag contract for armoured vehicles as Army upgrades mobility
Army working on various programmes related to wheeled armoured protection for infantry soldiers to allow faster induction & de-induction in times of crisis like the Ladakh standoff.
SNEHESH ALEX PHILIP 2 April, 2021 1:17 pm IST
The Mahindra light specialist vehicle that the Army has placed orders for | Photo by special arrangement
New Delhi: After Bharat Forge and Mahindra, the TATA Group is set to bag a contract from the Indian Army for heavy armoured protection vehicles for its soldiers deployed in key sectors, ThePrint has learnt.
Sources in the defence and security establishment said the while the programmes to ensure better mobility and protection to infantry soldiers started years ago, the recent standoff with China has shown the need for the critical capability in inhospitable terrains.
The Indian capability was seen wanting in Ladakh where the Chinese displayed greater mobility, inducting and de-inducting troops from frontline areas faster as they used different kinds of vehicles for the infantry.
“The vehicles not only provide protection to the soldiers but also help in faster induction and de-induction,” a source said.
The Indian Army has now sped up the process for its own acquisition process.
The first to hit off the ground were M4 armoured vehicles, of South African origin, which were tested in Ladakh during the standoff with China.
Last month, the Ministry of Defence also signed a contract with Mahindra Defence Systems Ltd (MDSL) for a supply of 1,300 light specialist vehicles to the Indian Army, at a cost of Rs 1,056 crore.
Sources said there are two more programmes for procurement of special wheeled vehicles, one of which has TATA as the frontrunner.
M4 and light specialist vehicles
With the Army upgrading its mobility power, orders for 27 M4 armoured vehicles were placed in February with the Pune-based Bharat Forge of the Kalyani group, which has a tie-up with the South African firm Paramount Group.The vehicles, a multi-role platform, designed to meet the requirements of the armed forces for quick mobility in rough terrain and in areas affected by mine and IED threats, are expensive as 27 of them cost Rs 177.95 crore.
Meanwhile, the 1,300 light specialist vehicles that Mahindra is to deliver in the next four years are authorised to various fighting units for carriage of medium machine guns, automatic grenade launchers as well as anti-tank guided missiles.
The Mahindra vehicles, in fact, beat a TATA platform to be selected.
“These vehicles are different from the M4 and are meant for specific operations. The Army is looking at different types of troop carrying wheeled vehicles which offer various grades of armoured protection,” another source in the defence establishment said.
Incidentally, certain specialised units of the Army have gone in for light strike vehicles (LSVs) from Force Motors that offer a lot of room for special operations as they can be air-dropped for operations deep inside enemy territory.
‘A welcome modernisation’
While contracts are being signed now, the fact is that they are long pending programmes, a source explained.He added that the LSV for the Special Forces, which was inked in 2018, was actually envisioned in 2002 as part of a study conducted by the Army for modernisation of Special Forces.
Similarly, armoured protection for infantry soldiers was a proposal that was first moved in 2011 by the department concerned in the Army, only to be set aside by the force’s top hierarchy for certain reasons.
“The contracts inked are actually a very welcome modernisation process. Infantry soldiers need to have mobility and protection. In many countries, infantry is complete mechanised infantry,” former Western Army Commander Lt Gen K.J. Singh told ThePrint.
The Mechanized Infantry Regiment of the Army is the youngest and was the brainchild of former Army chief K. Sundarji, who is also fondly called the ‘Father of the Mechanised Infantry Regiment’.
Gen Sundarji had during his tenure from 1986 to 1988, introduced a number of technical and operational initiatives for the force and went on to raise the Mechanised Infantry Regiment. With emphasis on speed, technology and mobile weaponry, the youngest arm of the Indian Army is now an integral part of the strike forces.
Given that the Army’s operational areas range from the deserts and plains to high altitudes, Lt Gen. Singh questioned why the force cannot go in for terrain-specific vehicles rather than placing larger order of all-terrain systems.
Mobility by air and water has increased
The recent standoff with China is eastern Ladakh also showcased how the ability to induct men and equipment has changed over the years.As India raced against China in the initial phases to counter its aggression last year, the Air Force came handy with its latest fleet of transport aircraft and helicopters.
Men and some of the urgent equipment, including tanks and armoured personnel carriers, were inducted into the Ladakh sector by air.
“Army’s mobility also needs to be seen in the context of the air lifting capabilities of the Air Force. Had it not been for the IAF, induction of men and material would have taken a little more time,” a source said.
It is not just in air and land that the Army is undergoing a jump in mobility prowess but also in the waters.
Army has gone in for emergency procurement of specialised boats to counter the faster and heavy vessels of the People’s Liberation Army.
https://theprint.in/defence/after-m...ed-vehicles-as-army-upgrades-mobility/632859/
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Mahindra ALSV vs Kalyani M4 Vs Tata LAMV
APR 8, 2021 Kalyani M4, Mahindra ASLV, Tata LAMV
Mahindra ALSV vs Kalyani M4 Vs Tata LAMV
-Bhagavan Hindustani
Mahindra has recently received an order of 1300 for their ALSV (Armored Light Special Vehicle). It was indeed a proud moment for Mahindra so much so that Anand Mahindra himself took it to social media to announce the news. Kalyani also won the contract for supplying their M4s to armed forces. After these orders, rumours came out that TATA will also be supplying armoured vehicles to armed forces and people started to speculate that it would be LAMV (Light Armoured Multirole Vehicle).Though these vehicles look similar, they actually belong to different categories and in this article we will dive a bit deeper into how these vehicles are different from each other.
Mahindra ALSV
ALSV from Mahindra is one hell of a machine and has been designed and developed indigenously by Mahindra. This is modular vehicle and complies with STANAG Level – II safety standards. The front, side and rear provide protection for four crew members up to STANAG level II. This vehicle can also carry an extra load of 400 kilograms along with crew and their battle gear.ALSV has a 3.2l 215 Hp multi-fuel diesel engine which is capable of running on either diesel or other NATO standard fuels. It also comes with an optional 4 or 6 speed automatic gearbox combination, 4 x 4 drivetrain with real differential locks, high travel all wheel independent suspension system and with central type inflation system. Top speed of this vehicle is around 120 kmph and this can do 0-60 kmph in less than 12 seconds. It has 30 degree gradability and can run on flat tyres for 50 kilometres. Mahindra also included self-cleaning air filtration system for desert conditions and scavenging system.
The Mahindra Armored Light Specialist Vehicle Specifications:
| Engine | Engine Type | Electronically controlled, Turbocharged, inline 6 Cylinder Diesel Engine |
| Cylinders | 6 Cylinder Diesel Engine- Turbocharged | |
| Power | 215 hp @ 3600 rpm | |
| Torque | 500 nm @ 2000 rpm | |
| Transmission | Transmission Type | 4/6 Speed Automatic |
| Suspension | Front (option) | Independent suspension |
| Rear | Independent suspension | |
| Brakes | All Four Wheels | Heavy Duty Brakes |
| Steering | Steering Type | RHD / LHD with power steering |
| Turning Circle Radius | 14.5m | |
| Drivetrain | Drive System | 4X4 |
| Fuel | Fuel Type | Diesel & NATO Fuels |
| Tyres | Tyre | 318/80 R17 |
Mahindra ALSV
Kalyani M4
Kalyani M4 is a license produced version of South Africa’s Mbombe 4 which is built by Paramount group. Indian army gave an order worth of 177.5 crores to Bharat Forge for the supply of this vehicle. This is a very limited orderM4 has a maximum payload capacity of 2300 kilos whereas ALSV has a maximum payload capacity of just 1000 kilos. This vehicle can carry 8 crew members along with their battle load. M4 is powered by a six cylinder engine which generates 465 hp and 1627 NM of torque which is literally twice that if the ALSV. This engine comes mated to a CVT gearbox just like our scooters (funny but yes we have to deal with it). M4 also comes with 4 x 4 drivetrain and all wheel independent suspension and can achieve a top speed of 140 kmph, 20 kmph higher than the ALSV.
Apart from these above mentioned features, M4 also comes equipped with ABS, run-flat tyres and a low range gearbox for heavier off road duties. This can also be used to drive over IEDs and over rough terrains with mines.
Kalyani M4
TATA LAMV
Another prominent player who doesn’t need an introduction is TATA motors. Tata motors have been manufacturing defence vehicles for quite some time now. Recent rumours involved LAMV and so we will try to know about LAMV today.LAMV also known as Light Armoured Multi Role Vehicle was first showcased in Defexpo 2014. It consists of all composite detachable crew pod with V-shaped hull for protection against IEDs and landmines just like the other two here. LAMV also confirms to a maximum safety of STANAG Level II (a and b). This has the capability to carry 4 crew members with a maximum payload of 1500 kilos and with a maximum gross vehicle weight of 8000 kilos. LAMV comes powered by a water cooled 210 hp turbo charged engine. This also comes with 4 x 4 capabilities and all independent suspension system.
LAMV comes with a manually operated open turret with mounting support for a 7.62 or 12.7 mm machine gun. The forward parts of the vehicle confirms to NIJ Level III ballistic protection for the gunner. LAMV can achieve top speeds of 105 – 110 kmph.
Tata LAMV
| Mahindra ALSV | Kalyani M4 | Tata LAMV | |
| Engine output (hp) | 215 | 465 | 210 |
| Top speed (kmph) | 120 | 140 | 105-110 |
| Crew | 6-8 | 8 | 4 |
| Payload capacity (kilos) | 1000 | 2300 | 1500 |
| Fuel type | Diesel and NATO fuels | Diesel | Diesel |
| Drivetrain | 4×4 | 4×4 | 4×4 |
| Safety | STANAG Level II | (data not available) | STANAG Level II (a and b) |
https://alphadefense.in/alsv-m4-lamv/
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Bhishma is all set to get a deadlier system - Alpha Defense
The Indian army is all set to equip its main battle tanks Bhishma T90 S / SK with a state-of-the-art active protection system (APS).
alphadefense.in
The Indian army is all set to equip its main battle tanks T90 S / SK with a state-of-the-art active protection system. As per the latest development, the Indian army has invited Indian vendors to supply 818 units of AFV Protection & Counter Measure System for tank T-90 S/SK, including ESP and installation on tanks.
New System under Make II:
During this process, two prototypes of AFV Protection & Counter Measure System for tank T-90 S/SK to be developed by the shortlisted vendors. Once these systems are developed, Indian army will test these and then 818 units of AFV Protection & Counter Measure System for tank T-90 S/SK will be procured from the same vendor.
Developmental Trials:
The Infamous Indian army trials will be fast tracked for this requirement. The trails will be conducted in three phases :
- Phase – I : User Trial Readiness Review (UTRR). Development of prototype and to bring the AFV Protection & Countermeasure System for Tank T-90 S/SK for user trial level and ensure that, the equipment meets the desired parameters and safety standards. The prototype will be evaluated on UTRR prepared by PFT.
- Phase – II : User and Tech Trials (Summer and Winter Trials). To evaluate indigenously developed AFV Protection and Counter Measure System for tank T-90 S/SK and ascertain its suitability for induction in the Army.
- Phase III : During this trials the system will be tested with live ammunition with a working tank. The selected agency will be supplied with the following :
- The shortlisted vendor will be provided with 1 T90 Tank for the fitment of the system.
- The Indian army will also provide the crew for the tank operation.
- The firing range will also be provided by the Indian army.
- Weapon and ammunition will be provided by the Indian army.
Desired capabilities:
The desired system should have both soft kill and hard kill capabilities. The Idea is to have following capabilities:
- Soft kill.
- Should provide an audio-visual warning on being lased or engaged by a hostile platform.
- Use decoy smoke for anti lasing and camouflage against acquisition and detection of own platform.
- Be able to degrade/defeat in-coming laser/ IR/Radar guided missiles by means of electro optical signals and or IR and or jamming.
- Hard kill.
- Use sensors to detect incoming projectiles.
- Use countermeasures to destroy/degrade incoming projectiles
The most interesting requirement here is effectiveness that desired system should have against various type of the projectiles.
(a) ATGM – 90 % or more
(b) HEAT round from 125 mm tank gun -70 %
(c) RPG/RL- 90 % or more
In addition, the system should have scope of further improvement providing protection against KE Projectiles in future.
The overall weight of the system should not be more than 1000 KG. The system should deflect or destroy hostile attacks to protect against threats from guided missiles, RPG/RL, and projectiles fired up to a velocity of 1000 m/sec. The fitting of any component of the system, should not be more than the height of the existing Anti-Aircraft Machine Gun bracket, which implies that the Indian army does not want to increase the visual profile of the T90.
The system should be capable of operating in the cold desert of Ladakh and the hot desert of Rajasthan with an operating temperature margin of 45 degrees to -5 degrees centigrade. The system should function when static or on the move and should be capable of all-weather day and night operations.
It Should be capable of detecting more than one direction of attack in case of a near-simultaneous hostile threat (minimum 0.5-second gap) and neutralize up to two threats. It Should have high safety against accidental activation by false projectiles such as small arms fire, artillery, splinters, etc. The danger zone for dismounted troops operating in the vicinity should not exceed a 50 m radius of the tank.
Old Ghost is still haunting:
In today’s scenario, an active protection system is one of the most important components that enhance the survivability of the main battle tank. Indian Army earlier tried equipping its main battle tanks with an active protection system during which Russian “Arena” and Israeli “Trophy” were the final contenders. However, “Arena” withdrew from the tender leaving Trophy as a single vendor in the competition. This competition was halted due to the infamous single vendor situation, leaving the Indian army in limbo.
Indian army has again started this quest but this time it is under “make in Indian”, categorized as Make II. The active protection system will be an indigenous system and will ensure that the Indian army’s tank fleet is much better protected.
Credit:
By Alpha Defense
Alpha Defense initially a solo venture but now a defense group by people from various demographics of India covering defense news and updates. We believe in unbiased analysis of every subject in hand. Our mission is to provide simplfiied defense information to the public.
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