TR Artillery Systems & Projects

[Tornadoss]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531918719949086721

These are some accurate shots.

 

[Yasar_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1531918719949086721

These are some accurate shots.

Those are VERY accurate shots. What is the range? Do we know?
Also I wonder if some form of correction kit were used?

Roketsan - 105/155 mm Howitzer Range Correction Kit

www.roketsan.com.tr

 

[TheInsider]

I hope the tests were done with the national powerpack. Our current production rate is 3 or 6 per year if I'm not mistaken. The shots are extremely accurate.

 

[TNAHN]

Those are VERY accurate shots. What is the range? Do we know?
Also I wonder if some form of correction kit were used?

The reason shots are so accurate is because the targets are so close. 2 or 3 km.

 

[TheInsider]

Maybe they are testing the direct shot capability of the system.

 

[Yasar_TR]

View attachment 44474

The reason shots are so accurate is because the targets are so close. 2 or 3 km.

The picture you have and the below firing angles don’t match. I haven’t measured. But one looks like 60-70 degrees another around 40 degrees. You do not fire at these elevations to hit a target at 3km. Also these are projectiles. Hence would follow a trajectory that would be more accute.

 

[TNAHN]

The picture you have and the below firing angles don’t match. I haven’t measured. But one looks like 60-70 degrees another around 40 degrees. You do not fire at these elevations to hit a target at 3km. Also these are projectiles. Hence would follow a trajectory that would be more accute.

Can you prove that the howitzer shots in these pictures were made against the targets in the video? We cannot know because these videos are being montaged. but in the picture I showed, it is clearly seen that the bullet follows a horizontal path. At a 60-degree shot, the bullet has to come down from the top.

 

[Heartbang]

any progress on the hybrid powertrain of eFırtına? and is it being considered for the Altay tank? @TheInsider

 

[Yasar_TR]

Can you prove that the howitzer shots in these pictures were made against the targets in the video? We cannot know because these videos are being montaged. but in the picture I showed, it is clearly seen that the bullet follows a horizontal path. At a 60-degree shot, the bullet has to come down from the top.

Well I took these pictures from the video. There are a number of different angled shots. Having watched it again there isn’t a shot that corresponds to a near horizontal firing.
So these may be different shots hitting the target that do not correspond with actual firing angles.
How do you come up with 2-3 km range?

 

[TheInsider]

In the picture he posted, the artillery shell is nearly parallel to the ground so the range looks to be close but 2-3km might be an exaggeration.

The hybrid powertrain is in development and testing. It is more like an R&D project with no orders. If satisfactory results can be obtained the scope of the project might be widened with a modernization package for the existing Fırtınas. It is not a BMC project.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

1,200hp Engine Delivery for FIRTINA-II K/M Howitzers Starts in June 2022!​

FIRTINA-II K/M Obüsler için 1.200bg Motor Teslimatı Haziran 2022’de Başlıyor!

2018 yılında imzalanan anlaşma altında Kara Kuvvetleri Komutanlığı (KKK) için sipariş edilen Yeni Nesil FIRTINA (FIRTINA-II) Kundağı Motorlu (K/M) Obüsleri için bir süredir beklenen 1.200bg kapasiteli 12 silindirli (V12) AVDS-1790-9A Dizel Motoru teslimatlarına Haziran 2022’de başlanılıyor...

www-defenceturkey-com.translate.goog

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

FIRTINA-II K/M Obüsler için 1.200bg Motor Teslimatı Haziran 2022’de Başlıyor!

2018 yılında imzalanan anlaşma altında Kara Kuvvetleri Komutanlığı (KKK) için sipariş edilen Yeni Nesil FIRTINA (FIRTINA-II) Kundağı Motorlu (K/M) Obüsleri için bir süredir beklenen 1.200bg kapasiteli 12 silindirli (V12) AVDS-1790-9A Dizel Motoru teslimatlarına Haziran 2022’de başlanılıyor...

www-defenceturkey-com.translate.goog

Link already english

 

[Yasar_TR]

Link already english

Not on my screen! Unless I use auto google translate!

Great info on the power pack of Firtina howitzer being upgraded to 1200HP, and more interestingly the same power pack to be used in M60A3 tank modernisation.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

Not on my screen! Unless I use auto google translate!

Unlike most people here, I was informed about copyrights at university. I have the culture to know that I cannot share the content of a company/institution with a commercial purpose in another publication/website/forum just because I want it. The important thing here is not your comfort or pleasure, but the permissions of the magazine.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Unlike most people here, I was informed about copyrights at university. I have the culture to know that I cannot share the content of a company/institution with a commercial purpose in another publication/website/forum just because I want it. The important thing here is not your comfort or pleasure, but the permissions of the magazine.

When you are restricted like that, then you need to write a small explanatory note as a concise translation of the article. The language of the forum is English and we all have to abide by it. It has nothing to do with my comfort or pleasure! No need to be pragmatic and cocky!

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

When you are restricted like that, then you need to write a small explanatory note as a concise translation of the article. The language of the forum is English and we all have to abide by it. It has nothing to do with my comfort or pleasure! No need to be pragmatic and cocky!

Then you will ask me to add the title in English, you will not complain "Why I cannot see the content in the article in front of me". Judging by the exclamation marks you put, you're the pragmatic and smug one.

 

[TheInsider]

We also have the export rights of the powerpack. IMHO it is a great success. According to the link, 53 power packs will be delivered this year. The first one will be delivered in June. Those power packs can also be used for upgrading M60 tanks without any change or additional engineering redesign. It is fully compatible with the existing M60 tanks and requires no changes on the tank it is plug and play. Now there is no obstacle to a national SABRA upgrade package. I also have additional info that the BMC Power 1000HP powerpack will be used to power 35-40ton class heavy IFVs after securing this deal.

We should upgrade another 150-200 M60A3 tanks and bring those to M60T standards. 300 LEO2T, 250 Altay (40 T1/210 T2), and 300-350 M60T(currently 160+) can satisfy our needs for the foreseeable future. Altay T3 should be hugely redesigned to make it compatible with the new MBT trends.

 

[what]

Then you will ask me to add the title in English, you will not complain "Why I cannot see the content in the article in front of me". Judging by the exclamation marks you put, you're the pragmatic and smug one.

All we're asking for is a summarizing sentence and the title of the article in English, not for us but for the many non Turkish speaking users.

 

[Khagan1923]

Translation of the full article for those who can't speak Turkish.

Delivery of 1,200bhp Engine for FIRTINA-II K/M Howitzers to Start in June 2022!


In June 2022, deliveries of the long-awaited 1,200bhp 12-cylinder (V12) AVDS-1790-9A Diesel Engine for the New Generation FIRTINA (FIRTINA-II) Self-Propelled Howitzers ordered for the Turkish Land Forces Command (KKK) under an agreement signed in 2018 will begin. According to the information we have obtained, the first of the 53 engines planned to be delivered this year under the agreement will be delivered to Turkey in June, and the remaining engines will be delivered to Turkey until the end of 2022.

Within the scope of the New Generation FIRTINA K/M Howitzer Project, a total of 140 Howitzers will be produced at the 1st Main Maintenance Factory Directorate (ABFM). According to the MSB 2021 Annual Report, a total of 6 New Generation FIRTINA K/M Howitzers were produced in 2021 and made ready for inspection and acceptance activities. In the said Howitzers, the German MTU product MTU MB-881 KA-500 Diesel Engine with a capacity of 1,000bg and Allison product X1100-5A3 Automatic Transmission power group, which is also used in the T-155 FIRTINA K/M Howitzer, were used. The power pack in the T-155 FIRTINA K/M Howitzers, of which 281 units were delivered, came ready-made from South Korea.

New Generation FIRTINA K/M Howitzer will be powered by RENK America Combat Propulsion Systems Company (formerly L3 Harris Combat Propulsion Systems business unit) product with a dry weight of 5,100lb (2,313kg) 1200bg (895kW) AVDS-1790-9A Diesel Engine and X1100™-5A4 Automatic Transmission developed by Allison Transmission for the Next Generation T-155 FIRTINA Self-Propelled Howitzer (FIRTINA-II) Program. BMC Power (ASFAT AŞ) is responsible for the integration of this power group.

At IDEF '19, a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) was signed between the Ministry of National Defense (MoND) and Caterpillar Defence UK (CAT UK) for the development of a new power pack consisting of a 12-cylinder (V12) diesel engine with a capacity of 1,200bhp and an Allison X1100-5A3 based automatic transmission to be used in FIRTINA-II K/M Howitzers. According to the information I received from company officials at the time, 1st ABFM engineers would also take part in the development process of the new engine, which would be shaped on the core of an existing Caterpillar Defence UK engine, and since the engine to be produced here would not contain parts and sub-systems subject to ITAR restrictions, there would be no restrictions on its export (ITAR-Free). However, Turkey later agreed with L3 Harris, which was reported to have made a better offer in terms of budget for this requirement. On March 1, 2021, the German company RENK announced that it would acquire the Combat Propulsion Systems business unit and the Magnet-Motor GmbH business unit of L3Harris Technologies.

On the other hand, this new power pack with a capacity of 1,200bg is also proposed as part of the modernization of the M60A3 Main Battle Tanks. According to the information we have received, since the power pack is designed to be compatible with the M60 AMT power pack, that is, to fit into the pool where the existing power pack is placed, no additional changes will be required in both the chassis and the tank body within the scope of the integration work, thus minimizing the cost of the upgrade. The 1,200bg (895kW) AVDS-1790-9A Diesel Engine has the same dimensions as the 750bg AVDS-1790-2C engine used in the M48 and M60 AMTs, which has a dry weight of 4,900lb, and the common parts utilization rate between the two engines is over 70%. The Allison X1100-5A4 Automatic Transmission will replace the current generation CD-850 transmission. Introduced as a cost-effective mobility / mobility improvement solution for the M60 AMT, the new power pack consisting of the AVDS-1790-9A Diesel Engine and the X1100™-5A4 Automatic Transmission (touted as the 'Turkish Power Pack') is estimated to improve the M60 AMT's acceleration by 46%, speed by 36%, top speed by 47% and climbing capability by over 40%. With the use of a common power pack in the M60 AMT and FIRTINA-II K/M Howitzers, significant savings can be achieved in life cycle cost and initial procurement cost, while significant savings can also be achieved in costs such as operational and maintenance spare parts, storage operations and maintenance training.

FIRTINA-II, whose prototype tests were conducted in 2017, is a new generation version of the T-155 FIRTINA K/M Howitzer; The new turret design with ammunition conditioning sections, fully electric and servo-controlled turret loading system (replacing the existing hydraulic-based turret loading system), improved Fire Control System, increased rate of fire, extended effective range, fully automatic ammunition loading system (FIRTINA-I is equipped with an electrically powered and electronically controlled automatic ammunition loading system) and ASELSAN product 12. 7mm SARP UKKS for self-protection, as well as direct fire capability. Some of the existing FIRTINA-I K/M Howitzers are also expected to be upgraded to FIRTINA-II level.

On February 5, 2019, Minister AKAR had previously announced the signing of an agreement with Qatar for the sale of FIRTINA K/M Howitzers, but did not provide information on the amount of the agreement or the number of FIRTINAs to be delivered.

 

[Khagan1923]

A couple interesting points here.

1. The first agreement was signed with Caterpillar to develop an engine with ITAR-free components together with Turkish engineers based on the core of an already existing Caterpillar engine.
This agreement was scraped later after L3 Harris offered a better deal in terms of financials.
2. German Company RENK has bought the L3 Harris Propulsion Systems Business with which the deal was signed.

The question here is, will this powerpack be ITAR-Free too? L3 Harris(RENK) touts it as "The Turkish Powerpack" but how much export freedom do we have? How smart was it to go into business with an company that has been bought by a german company with which we already have problems (Altay Transmission). Or have we gone into another business adventure where we will get the short end of the stick once we want to export our howitzers by having the german government be able to veto the transfer of engines?! Or even have further orders of powerpacks be cancelled by the german government and land at the same spot we were at with MTU?!

Essentially the question here is how much power has Germany over the RENK America Combat Propulsion Systems Company?

3. X1100™-5A4 Automatic Transmission has acc. to the article been developed solely for the Firtina-II by Allison Transmission. Is this true?

4. The article talks about a possible powerpack upgrade of the M60A3 fleet but I did not get the feeling it was a sealed deal.

5. Some Firtina-I will be upgraded to the Firtina-II standard. Why not upgrade all? Maybe some are just too old?