Azerbaijan Armenia Tensions

[Waz]

I'd would have liked to see our Azeri bros brings things to a natural conclusion, but it's fine. Get them out from a position of strength. Their ability to make war has been shattered.
Move settlers in.

 

[x_TC_x]

Its quite likely the details of the article are utter nonsense, however its not irrational to presume that Turkish drone operators and military planners were with Azerbaijan.

What makes me think the drone operators from Turkey was the proficiency in their use. They preformed better here then they did in syria and libya.

There is absolutely no reason to say it 'must' have been Turks to operate Azeri UAV/UCAVs.

Firstly, Azeris are operating a wide range of UAVs, UCAVs and LPGMs, and then almost as long as the Turks do. Just for example, Azerbaijan launched licence production of LPGMs already about 5 years ago:
https://defence-blog.com/news/azad-systems-co-presents-new-zarba-unmanned-aerial-vehicles.html

Means: Azerbaijan has enough experienced cadre to run such ops on its own.

Secondly, Azeris are operating a number of UAV/UCAV/LPGM-types of Israeli origin not available (and thus unknown) to the Turks.

Thirdly, even the story about Bayraktar TB.2-deliveries being ordered - and delivered - 'only' this summer is at least 'nifty': there are strong indications that the first were ordered already the last year, and the training of Azeri personnel on them (and again: this personnel was already experienced on other types of UAVs) was going on at least as long.

Finally, the Azeri armed forces underwent a comprehensive reform over the last 5-6 years. They not only 'got rid' of all the Soviet/post-Soviet influence, but also diverse other sorts of influences. Unsurprisingly, they fought this campaign singificantly different than the Turks fought any of their campaigns in northern Syria, too.

This shouldn't mean the TSK officers would be 'bad' or anything of that kind, but they simply plan and run their operations differently.

 

[Combat-Master]

Finally, the Azeri armed forces underwent a comprehensive reform over the last 5-6 years. They not only 'got rid' of all the Soviet/post-Soviet influence, but also diverse other sorts of influences. Unsurprisingly, they fought this campaign singificantly different than the Turks fought any of their campaigns in northern Syria, too.

Turkey fought an hybrid war, where insurgents mixed with civilians in densely populated urban areas. Azerbaijan fought a conventional war while being superior, lines of contact were visible and known, Armenians did not mix into civilian populace.

Very different wars that should not be compared at all.

When assadists got out of hand, they felt Turkish military superiority very well.

 

[500]

the deal is made only because to get an access to naxchivan, thats why they were ready to give up on something for only five years. Turkey knows that once Ukraine vs Russian war starts, Russia will not be able to stay there. We know Russia, they dont have a single research on army technology, they only use old Soviet technology.. Actually, the deal itself was designed by Turkey and Azerbaijan together before even the war started. They specifically focused on Naxchivan that we would never get if there were not any deal...

The problem is that Naxchivan road will be also under Russian supervision.

 

[AzeriTank]

The problem is that Naxchivan road will be also under Russian supervision.

it doesnt really matter, according to contract, they need to secure it, if not, there is another reason to secure the area in the future. We all know that Ukraine will fight with Russia soon, once they destroy all Russian sheeps in Krim, and also bring huge war with Turkish help, especially shooting down Russian jets and shooting their ground forces with tb2, Russia might loose lots of power, even once the ships destroyed, they will not be able to support their operations in Syria. To make it short, we got an opportunity to take in the future when Russia has lots of problem. we can use it for future negotiations...

 

[Azeri441]

Its quite likely the details of the article are utter nonsense, however its not irrational to presume that Turkish drone operators and military planners were with Azerbaijan.

What makes me think the drone operators from Turkey was the proficiency in their use. They preformed better here then they did in syria and libya.

Thats because unlike Syria or Libya, Azerbaijan was the first country to heavily use suicide drones, which themselves took out a lot of targets, including first combat kills on S-300, Tor-M2 and etc. If there was a threat to TB-2 in the area, loitering munitions were sent in first to clear any AD presence. Turkey only had to rely on Electronic Warfare to suppress any AD networks and let TB-2s do their job.

 

[500]

it doesnt really matter, according to contract, they need to secure it, if not, there is another reason to secure the area in the future. We all know that Ukraine will fight with Russia soon, once they destroy all Russian sheeps in Krim, and also bring huge war with Turkish help, especially shooting down Russian jets and shooting their ground forces with tb2, Russia might loose lots of power, even once the ships destroyed, they will not be able to support their operations in Syria. To make it short, we got an opportunity to take in the future when Russia has lots of problem. we can use it for future negotiations...

No, Ukraine and Russia will not fight soon. The Ukrainian army is no match to Russian at all.

 

[Bayraktar TB2]

There is absolutely no reason to say it 'must' have been Turks to operate Azeri UAV/UCAVs.

Firstly, Azeris are operating a wide range of UAVs, UCAVs and LPGMs, and then almost as long as the Turks do. Just for example, Azerbaijan launched licence production of LPGMs already about 5 years ago:
https://defence-blog.com/news/azad-systems-co-presents-new-zarba-unmanned-aerial-vehicles.html

Means: Azerbaijan has enough experienced cadre to run such ops on its own.

Secondly, Azeris are operating a number of UAV/UCAV/LPGM-types of Israeli origin not available (and thus unknown) to the Turks.

Thirdly, even the story about Bayraktar TB.2-deliveries being ordered - and delivered - 'only' this summer is at least 'nifty': there are strong indications that the first were ordered already the last year, and the training of Azeri personnel on them (and again: this personnel was already experienced on other types of UAVs) was going on at least as long.

Finally, the Azeri armed forces underwent a comprehensive reform over the last 5-6 years. They not only 'got rid' of all the Soviet/post-Soviet influence, but also diverse other sorts of influences. Unsurprisingly, they fought this campaign singificantly different than the Turks fought any of their campaigns in northern Syria, too.

This shouldn't mean the TSK officers would be 'bad' or anything of that kind, but they simply plan and run their operations differently.

There is absolutely no reason to say it 'must' have been Turks to operate Azeri UAV/UCAVs.

Firstly, Azeris are operating a wide range of UAVs, UCAVs and LPGMs, and then almost as long as the Turks do. Just for example, Azerbaijan launched licence production of LPGMs already about 5 years ago:
https://defence-blog.com/news/azad-systems-co-presents-new-zarba-unmanned-aerial-vehicles.html

Means: Azerbaijan has enough experienced cadre to run such ops on its own.

Secondly, Azeris are operating a number of UAV/UCAV/LPGM-types of Israeli origin not available (and thus unknown) to the Turks.

Thirdly, even the story about Bayraktar TB.2-deliveries being ordered - and delivered - 'only' this summer is at least 'nifty': there are strong indications that the first were ordered already the last year, and the training of Azeri personnel on them (and again: this personnel was already experienced on other types of UAVs) was going on at least as long.

Finally, the Azeri armed forces underwent a comprehensive reform over the last 5-6 years. They not only 'got rid' of all the Soviet/post-Soviet influence, but also diverse other sorts of influences. Unsurprisingly, they fought this campaign singificantly different than the Turks fought any of their campaigns in northern Syria, too.

This shouldn't mean the TSK officers would be 'bad' or anything of that kind, but they simply plan and run their operations differently.

There is absolutely no reason to say it 'must' have been Turks to operate Azeri UAV/UCAVs.

Firstly, Azeris are operating a wide range of UAVs, UCAVs and LPGMs, and then almost as long as the Turks do. Just for example, Azerbaijan launched licence production of LPGMs already about 5 years ago:
https://defence-blog.com/news/azad-systems-co-presents-new-zarba-unmanned-aerial-vehicles.html

Means: Azerbaijan has enough experienced cadre to run such ops on its own.

Secondly, Azeris are operating a number of UAV/UCAV/LPGM-types of Israeli origin not available (and thus unknown) to the Turks.

Thirdly, even the story about Bayraktar TB.2-deliveries being ordered - and delivered - 'only' this summer is at least 'nifty': there are strong indications that the first were ordered already the last year, and the training of Azeri personnel on them (and again: this personnel was already experienced on other types of UAVs) was going on at least as long.

Finally, the Azeri armed forces underwent a comprehensive reform over the last 5-6 years. They not only 'got rid' of all the Soviet/post-Soviet influence, but also diverse other sorts of influences. Unsurprisingly, they fought this campaign singificantly different than the Turks fought any of their campaigns in northern Syria, too.

This shouldn't mean the TSK officers would be 'bad' or anything of that kind, but they simply plan and run their operations differently.

1.No, the news of TB2 was first aired around April/June .
2. These are UCAVS (azerbaijan never operated UCAVs) and they operated it the same way they did in Libya and Syria (one spotter, one shooter).
3. Compared to the performance of July battles when Armenia attacked Tovuz, is like day and night.
4. Turkey did a comprehensive exercise with Azerbaijan before the war and left the f16s and a unknown number of personel in Azerbaijan, suggesting it was more than moral or political support Turkey lend Azerbaijan in this war.
5.You are assuming like the poster you replied too.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1287135505440743425

 

[Bayraktar TB2]

The reason TB2 outperformed in this war is because suicide drones like harop who took out high value airdefence which it was designed to do and minimizing the losses of TB2s .

 

[Mis_TR_Like]

President Aliyev driving through a captured area....

 

[guest_07]

Assalamu'alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh to Muslim
& Good day to the rest

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1328443391168950275

 

[guest_07]

Assalamu'alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh to Muslim
& Good day to the rest

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1328501820726054912

 

[guest_07]

Assalamu'alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh to Muslim
& Good day to the rest

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1328488947744378880

 

[GoatsMilk]

Thats because unlike Syria or Libya, Azerbaijan was the first country to heavily use suicide drones, which themselves took out a lot of targets, including first combat kills on S-300, Tor-M2 and etc. If there was a threat to TB-2 in the area, loitering munitions were sent in first to clear any AD presence. Turkey only had to rely on Electronic Warfare to suppress any AD networks and let TB-2s do their job.

View attachment 6564

Suicide drones are very different to Using UCAV's they require far less skill.

Turkey also fought conventionally in Libya where Turks took command of an Arab army that fought against another Arab army that had Russian Wagner troops, troops from egypt, sudan etc as well French advisors. That situation was far more difficult to turn around then Azeri Situation, were in the Azeri case you had a better army. Better technology, better organisation and better soldiers.

In Libya the opposing warlord and his army had 95% control of the country, better tech, more men and more finance. Not to mention that the western world especially france was doing everything to hamper the GNA like placing embargoes and monitoring the seas for equipment going to the GNA.

So if Turks can take command of an arab army where the enemy is even in the capital and turn that around it shouldn't be an issue to take command of a Turkish speaking army in which they already have decades of military training.

But if i had to gamble on this war and the option was next to no Turkish involvement or Turkish involvement that involved operating drones and potential military planners i would gamble on the latter.

And I don't think this diminishes the victory, because you would faced an armenia who would have had russian military planners and other support from them like intelligence. I would have no doubts that russians would have been providing armenians with satellite intelligence to where Azeri deployments were.

Because i would argue the most impressive part of that war was not drone warfare, it was when Azeri soldiers without the support of air or artillery climbed the sides of the cliffs in susha and took that town so rapidly.

 

[GoatsMilk]

1.No, the news of TB2 was first aired around April/June .
2. These are UCAVS (azerbaijan never operated UCAVs) and they operated it the same way they did in Libya and Syria (one spotter, one shooter).
3. Compared to the performance of July battles when Armenia attacked Tovuz, is like day and night.
4. Turkey did a comprehensive exercise with Azerbaijan before the war and left the f16s and a unknown number of personel in Azerbaijan, suggesting it was more than moral or political support Turkey lend Azerbaijan in this war.
5.You are assuming like the poster you replied too.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1287135505440743425

That incident also makes me wonder. In that incident Azeribaijan didn't do so well. From that incident to this shockingly impressive victory makes you wonder what changed. Clearly a day and night difference.

 

[AzeriTank]

No, Ukraine and Russia will not fight soon. The Ukrainian army is no match to Russian at all.

people used to say same thing about NK war, but it happened... Russia doesnt recognize eastern Ukraine. there are "separatists"

 

[Saithan]

Interesting video of a Turk translating Russian media.

 

[GoatsMilk]

people used to say same thing about NK war, but it happened... Russia doesnt recognize eastern Ukraine. there are "separatists"

Russia so far hasn't been able to adapt to the changes in warfare. If they continue along this path in 20 years time things will look very different for them.

 

[Xenon54]

Assalamu'alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh to Muslim
& Good day to the rest

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1328443391168950275

"We will leave nothing to the muslims"
You can see the hate in his eyes while saying this, looks like its not possible to sign peace treaty with Armenians any time soon.
They showed their nature once again yesterday by even attacking Russians.

Armenians are not the victims, no matter how many time they repeat the same lies.


Anyways, there are two options, either they get to their senses (small chance) or the borders stay closed and they get poorer each passing year.

 

[GoatsMilk]

"We will leave nothing to the muslims"
You can see the hate in his eyes while saying this, looks like its not possible to sign peace treaty with Armenians any time soon.
They showed their nature once again yesterday by even attacking Russians.

Armenians are not the victims, no matter how many time they repeat the same lies.


Anyways, there are two options, either they get to their senses (small chance) or the borders stay closed and they get poorer each passing year.

Armenian hate and racism will push them into new wars until armenia ceases to exist. They are entirely responsible for their own downfall.

In many ways armenians are lucky that the Turks don't think or behave like them, because if they did armenia wouldnt exist.