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ekemenirtu

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Turkey is mired and pretty much surrounded by enemies, If we had nukes and solid economy I guess we'd be more vocal about it.

But we have to thread carefully when everyone is pretty much ready to tear Turkey apart like they did after WW1.

A country of 80 million people in today's world - where China and India have more than 1300 million people each - and at least another 10 countries have 100 million people each - can only go so far.

This is particularly true for countries in the Middle East. Turkey, Iran, Egypt and the rest are yet to hit the 100 million mark. Tiny populations = low potential.

Better not challenge "superpowers"/"hyperpowers".
 

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Excerpt:

Britain's decision to leave the EU after its Brexit referendum means that the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, or CETA, will no longer apply to the country at the end of the year.

The new deal preserves CETA's key provision until a more comprehensive agreement can be reached later: the elimination of tariffs on 98 per cent of Canadian exports to Britain, which is Canada's fifth largest trading partner with $29 billion in two-way merchandise trade in 2019.

International Trade Minister Mary Ng said legislation would be introduced in Parliament soon so the interim deal could be ratified. Ng noted that Canada did not give Britain any additional market access to British cheese, preserving the status quo of the country's supply management system.

Canada's dairy industry has complained loudly in the past about the additional foreign access to the Canadian market under previous trade deals, including CETA and the new Canada-United States-Mexico Agreement.

Ng and her British counterpart, Liz Truss, committed to negotiating a new and more comprehensive agreement in the coming year. She said the new deal would explore co-operation around women's economic empowerment, the environment and digital trade.


(More at link)
 

Nilgiri

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TORONTO -- Canada is no longer training with the Chinese military, the Minister of National Defence Harjit Sajjan told the House of Commons on Thursday, after Conservative defence critic James Bezan questioned why Prime Minister Justin Trudeau would maintain such relations with China.

The issue came to a head following a report by the Globe and Mail that top officials at Global Affairs, concerned the Chinese government would view it as a retaliatory move over its detention of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor, was “alarmed” that General Jonathan Vance cancelled winter military exercises with the People’s Liberation Army in 2019 at CFB Petawawa.

The news comes as Kovrig and Spavor marked their second anniversary in Chinese prison on what Canada and its Western allies say are unfounded espionage charges that followed Canada’s arrest of Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou on a U.S. extradition warrant in December 2018.

“Our government always stands up for Canadians at home and abroad and this includes our relationship with China. But let me be very clear, we do not train with Chinese military,” said Minister Sajjan, adding that this initiative was originally put in place by the Conservative government under Stephen Harper.

“It was the previous government that actually signed a co-operation plan initiative in 2013 under Rob Nicholson, when he was the Minister of National Defence … because of the agreement they had signed, this is one of the reasons why we actually changed our approach because of the concerns the member outlined,” Sajjan said.

Bezan, who served as Parliamentary Secretary of National Defence under Nicholson at the time, said Canada was engaging in “hostage diplomacy” and that the Chinese government back then “is completely different to the Chinese government today.”

Conservative leader Erin O’Toole called the joint training exercise a “dangerous path for the Trudeau government to take" and called Canada's dealings with China a "dangerously naive approach [that] has put Canada and our citizens at risk.”

The Canadian Armed Forces have participated in various joint and regional military exercises for decades with some two dozen Pacific Rim countries. Specifically, Canada advanced its bilateral defence relationship with China through talks between senior military officials on both sides in March 2012 and June 2013. The Cooperation Plan Initiative, which would guide defence-related activities, was signed in Ottawa in August 2013.

China’s President Xi Jinping, who came into power in March 2013, has tightened his control over the country in recent years through mass detention and surveillance of its Muslim population in Xinjiang, a crackdown on activism, heavy Internet censorship, consolidation of power and removal of presidential term limits. He has also taken a more assertive and harder-line approach to foreign affairs and defending China’s interests.

Meng’s arrest, and the subsequent arrest of Kovrig and Spavor shortly after, soured relations between Canada and China. Trudeau has spoken to U.S. president-elect Joe Biden about the situation, but has not said whether Biden might revisit the Justice Department’s efforts to extradite Meng. Should the U.S. withdraw its charges against Meng, it could give China a reason to release Kovrig and Spavor.

“We will always stand up for Canadians who are arbitrarily detained. This is one of the reasons why we actually stopped our training with the Chinese,” Sajjan said.

With files from The Canadian Press
 

Nilgiri

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Here is the problem. If the PM refuses to give a straight answer to a simple question then how are we to find out the answer to anything?

Author of the article:
Michael Higgins
Publishing date:
Feb 11, 2021 • 23 hours ago • 3 minute read

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau was asked a simple question Wednesday.

“Have you reached out to Prime Minister Modi or will you be reaching out to Prime Minister Modi to ensure Canada can get (vaccine) supply from India?” Trudeau was asked by a reporter at a press conference Wednesday morning.

It was an important question, because India’s Serum Institute, described as having the world’s largest vaccine facility, has a contract to supply doses of the Oxford/AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine for global distribution, as well as for domestic use in India. Canadian health officials are reviewing the AstraZeneca vaccine for approval to be used here and the government has ordered millions of doses. It would be good to know if we can count on India’s supplies, given the problems Ottawa has faced with getting shipments from Pfizer and Moderna.

It was a simple question, but Trudeau failed to answer it. Yet, hours later any Canadian curious about the answer could find it out from such places as The Times of India, the Hindustan Times or the Twitter feed of Narendra Modi, the Indian prime minister.

That seemed somewhat odd, since it wasn’t a difficult question, or one intended to trip up the prime minister. It was merely asking for some information.

Trudeau’s answer talked of working with allies, partnering with India to fight COVID, building strong relationships between the two countries, growing the global economy, and creating opportunities for everyone.

Absent from the answer was, well, the answer. Had he reached out to Modi?

Two hours later, Modi tweeted, “Was happy to receive a call from my friend @JustinTrudeau. Assured him that India would do its best to facilitate supplies of COVID vaccines sought by Canada.”

Such clarity was repeated by The Times of India, “PM Modi speaks to Canada’s Trudeau,” and reiterated by the Hindustan Times, “PM Modi speaks to Justin Trudeau.”

One might marvel at the forthrightness of the Indian press or Modi, but really, is it a state secret who our prime minister is talking to? Why the obfuscation?

And here is the problem. If the prime minister refuses to give a straight answer to a simple question then how are we to find out the answer to anything?

If the prime minister had replied, “I will be phoning my pal Modi in a couple of hours,” then one could expect a follow up question to be, “Why?”

However, if the first question is never answered, then the second question is never asked.

So why has the prime minister reached out to Modi?

Could the supply of the 20 million AstraZeneca doses Canada has ordered be in danger? India produces 60 per cent of the world’s vaccines and is busily pumping out tens of millions of doses of Covishield (the local name for the AstraZeneca vaccine.)

Did Trudeau press Modi to ensure we got the 20 million? Did he ask, Oliver Twist-like, for more? Did he request they be delivered earlier on account of being such good allies? Perhaps he wanted to be signed up to India’s vaccine diplomacy?

India has given tens of millions of doses to the developing world. Myanmar, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka and the Maldives have all been helped so far. Africa is to get 10 million doses and several other countries, including Mongolia, Oman, the Philippines, and Bahrain, are likely to get vaccines.

It may be that Trudeau wants to be added to that list of countries because of the severe delays to our vaccine rollout. A few weeks ago, Canada was among the top 10 countries who had administered the most vaccines to its people. Now a Bloomberg Vaccine Tracker has us at 37th place, with 2.98 Canadians being vaccinated per 100 people.

In less than two weeks, we are expecting a shipment of Moderna vaccine. It was to be almost 250,000 doses. But a week after being told it would be less than 250,000 we still have no idea how many doses we are going to get.

The prime minister continues to reassure us that vaccines are on the way — six million vaccinated by end of March, everyone by end of September, he says. But in truth we just don’t know exactly how many doses we are getting or from where.

Perhaps we could ask the prime minister of India.
 

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Canada's House of Commons has voted overwhelmingly to declare China's treatment of its Uighur minority population a genocide.

The motion - which passed 266 to 0 - was supported by all opposition parties and a handful of lawmakers from the governing Liberal Party.

Prime Minister Justice Trudeau and most members of his cabinet abstained.

The motion makes Canada just the second country after the United States to recognise China's actions as genocide.

Lawmakers also voted to pass an amendment asking Canada to call on the International Olympic Committee to move the 2022 Winter Olympics from Beijing "if the Chinese government continues this genocide".
Mr Trudeau has so far been hesitant to label China's actions against the Uighur minority in Xinjiang a genocide, calling the term "extremely loaded" and saying further examination was needed before a decision could be made.

Just one member of his cabinet, Foreign Affairs Minister Marc Garneau, appeared in parliament for the vote. Speaking in the House of Commons, Mr Garneau said he had abstained "on behalf of the government of Canada".

Speaking ahead of the vote, opposition leader Erin O'Toole said the move was necessary to send a "clear and unequivocal signal that we will stand up for human rights and the dignity of human rights, even if it means sacrificing some economic opportunity".

In an open letter to Mr Trudeau earlier this month asking him to "stand up to China", Mr O'Toole noted the recent banning of BBC World News from China - a decision that followed a BBC report alleging systematic rape, sexual abuse and torture in China's "re-education" camps in Xinjiang.

Monday's non-binding motion marks the latest escalation in Canada-China relations, which have soured over recent years.

At the weekend, China's ambassador to Canada Cong Peiwu told the Canadian Press that the motion was "interfering in [China's] domestic affairs".

"We firmly oppose that because it runs counter to facts," he said. "There's nothing like genocide happening in Xinjiang at all."

Rights groups believe that China has detained up to a million Uighurs over the past few years in what the state defines as "re-education camps".

BBC investigations suggest that Uighurs are being used as forced labour.

Canada's symbolic motion does not lay out next steps, but says the Canadian government needs to follow the lead of its US neighbours.

Both the current and former US Secretaries of State, Anthony Blinken and Mike Pompeo, have declared that China's policies against Uighur Muslims and other ethnic minorities in its western Xinjiang region constitute genocide.
 

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Warnings issued and thread ban issued for trolling to certain member for off-topic spam.

I advise other members to not meme etc when replying to him as he is doing his typical tactic.
 

Nilgiri

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Some days back as the vote-session approached (Feb 20th), interview with Mehmet Tohti, prominent Uighur rights activist here in Canada:

Mr. Tohti has not been able to speak to his mother (in PRC) since 2016...has received cruel messages from CCP regarding her status, and does not know location/condition of her and most of his relatives there.

More details on the passing of the motion (Feb 22nd) and condition+situation of Uighurs with Mr. Tohti (after the motion passed) and also one of the liberal party MPs (Sameer Zuberi) that voted (and didnt officially/non-officially abstain unlike other half of his party and its leadership):


Cannot begin to think how being in his shoes and those like him (Mr Tohti) would feel like.

The House of Commons approved a motion accusing the Chinese government of committing a genocide against the Uighur minority. The vote was 266 in favour and zero opposed; Trudeau and the Liberal cabinet abstained.

This is and has been (IMO) shameful performance by our prime minister + cabinet on this issue in copping out and not supporting the 266 (all the opposition party MPs and about half of the liberal party MPs) parliament majority that voted.

Though I cannot say I am totally surprised given earlier vague mumblings he has made on the matter, and that being the executive he has to weigh geopolitical factors and consequences (investment from PRC into Canada has been sizeable lately and there is the "two michaels" hostage issue).

Reference: There are 338 MPs in total....so its about 266/338 = 79% support rate for this motion in parliament.

Thankfully it is good to see that not one MP voted against and only 2 MPs formally abstained (they will be scrutinised)...most liberal MPs abstained unofficially (shameful, this will bear scrutiny).

Big props to conservative party to get the ball rolling on this motion and forming consensus with their political rivals NDP (who are also in opposition)...and visually demonstrating (to Canadian public) which MPs and parties mean what they say in the end w.r.t this issue in a basic way.

Earlier statement (before vote) from conservative party leader:
They got about 54% of liberals in end to support the bill openly....but PM+cabinet stayed away shamefully.

The vote to lobby IOC to move 2022 winter olympics away from PRC (if it does not stop what its doing to Uighurs) passed 229 - 29.

Those 29 MPs that voted against will all be scrutinised too.

With these motions and vote results, pressure will mount upon PM Trudeau and Liberal Party going forward to clarify their position and take a firm stance.

Hopefully more countries in EU/europe/developed world now follow precedence set by USA (strongly bipartisan) and now Canada (bipartisan to lesser degree) on this matter w.r.t their legislative bodies at the minimum.

Canada should also take more meaningful actions w.r.t imports (sourced from uighur forced labour camps), following the (recent) US lead on this.

Canada must push for access for on-site investigation with western peers consensus and help of Turkey and Kazkahstan (w.r.t Uighur refugees there) as Mr. Zuberi said in 2nd vid.

This all of course needs PM + Cabinet to get on board firmly with the political consensus in the legislature...and the requisite commitees and bill formation.

It cannot be left to be non-binding motion...actual bills need to come about now.

As much pressure needs to be also put on American legislators and Biden admin w.r.t magnitsky act adoption w.r.t sanctions on specific CCP individuals involved.

This has come up for discussion at several junctures by Mr. Bill Browder himself.

Canada and EU have similar legislations passed or are under consideration....these should also be implemented ASAP w.r.t individuals responsible for perpetrating crimes on Uighur people at such collective level.

@Joe Shearer @VCheng @Sinan @xenon5434 @Madokafc @Vergennes @Costin84 @AlphaMike @Saithan @Fuzuli NL @anmdt @T-123456 @Deliorman @Jackdaws @UkroTurk @Kartal1 @Paro et al.
 

Nilgiri

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Chinese Ambassador reaction (for anyone interested in the other perspective, in case you never heard any of it before):

No surprise comments on all these videos are turned off on youtube.
BTW someone need to push youtube so we at least know who turned off comments option when that is done for a video...(i.e the publisher or youtube).
 

VCheng

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Canada and EU have similar legislations passed or are under consideration....these should also be implemented ASAP w.r.t individuals responsible for perpetrating crimes on Uighur people at such collective level.

It will be interesting to see how far China can be pushed in this matter.
 

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Genocide is a legal term. Why governments decide about that?
 

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Chinese Ambassador reaction (for anyone interested in the other perspective, in case you never heard any of it before):

No surprise comments on all these videos are turned off on youtube.
BTW someone need to push youtube so we at least know who turned off comments option when that is done for a video...(i.e the publisher or youtube).
It's the publisher.
 

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The anglo-american world and china are in conflict, its natural that such an open and obvious genocide will be used against China. However for Turkey efforts should be made to rescue these people. The conflict between the anglo american world and china is only going to escalate, it is none of Turkeys business, they deserve each other. But the safety of the Uighur people must be settled.
 

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Uygurs were oppressed for decades now all of a sudden people started caring because the Tibetans have gone old fashioned.

Im against China why were the Uygurs ignored this whole time?? When it came to the Tibetans the Uygurs were ignored now its opposite.
 

Nilgiri

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Uygurs were oppressed for decades now all of a sudden people started caring because the Tibetans have gone old fashioned.

Im against China why were the Uygurs ignored this whole time?? When it came to the Tibetans the Uygurs were ignored now its opposite.

Well if you listen to Mr. Tohti, he came to Canada in 1998 itself and has been highlighting the human rights problem. Lot of uighur testimony itself talks about the situation really taking a turn in the last decade or so....that makes it stand out compared to previous period (corellates with the re-education camps evidence too).

Have to remember during cold war the whole area was isolated to begin with (as PRC itself was isolated from western world + economy etc)....and PRC could not push itself around in such draconian way (on specific minority as opposed to entire population like in GLF and cultural rev etc) given the threat imposed by USSR to the north and west....and less than ideal relations with the US/West too.

It has really been in the recent timeframe (after cold war ended and china opened up economically) there is indisputable evidence from remote sensing and witness + refugee testimony from uighurs (and the leaked PRC, CCP govt documents) w.r.t the "re-education" camps and the genocidal policies implemented.....that make this situation stand out far more from the more regular human rights problems found world over (in both developing and developed world).

In Tibet there is simply no remote sensing evidence for the mass expansion of camps to re-educate them, since for most part their suppression was achieved over the cold war era (esp given cultural revolution brutality) to a more pacified (w.r.t to CCP) state (since they number just 3 million people or so, most concentrated in a few valleys).

In hindsight, Stalin/USSR should have intervened in Turkestan and not let Mao into the area (when mao was very weak)....and British should also have formalised a treaty with Qing empire too about Tibet being buffer independent state in perpetuity too etc...that would have allowed independent India to continue enforcement of such.

But we got to work with world we have now.
 

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Well if you listen to Mr. Tohti, he came to Canada in 1998 itself and has been highlighting the human rights problem. Lot of uighur testimony itself talks about the situation really taking a turn in the last decade or so....that makes it stand out compared to previous period (corellates with the re-education camps evidence too).

Have to remember during cold war the whole area was isolated to begin with (as PRC itself was isolated from western world + economy etc)....and PRC could not push itself around in such draconian way (on specific minority as opposed to entire population like in GLF and cultural rev etc) given the threat imposed by USSR to the north and west....and less than ideal relations with the US/West too.

It has really been in the recent timeframe (after cold war ended and china opened up economically) there is indisputable evidence from remote sensing and witness + refugee testimony from uighurs (and the leaked PRC, CCP govt documents) w.r.t the "re-education" camps and the genocidal policies implemented.....that make this situation stand out far more from the more regular human rights problems found world over (in both developing and developed world).

In Tibet there is simply no remote sensing evidence for the mass expansion of camps to re-educate them, since for most part their suppression was achieved over the cold war era (esp given cultural revolution brutality) to a more pacified (w.r.t to CCP) state (since they number just 3 million people or so, most concentrated in a few valleys).

In hindsight, Stalin/USSR should have intervened in Turkestan and not let Mao into the area (when mao was very weak)....and British should also have formalised a treaty with Qing empire too about Tibet being buffer independent state in perpetuity too etc...that would have allowed independent India to continue enforcement of such.

But we got to work with world we have now.

Communist China should have been stopped ages ago what a shame!!!

That we allowed this monster to grow. They won the civil war, they took tibet and east turkistan.

Now they built themselves an economy with Western help all our jobs got outsourced to China. On top of that they built nukes.

What a shame to be honest. For decades they grew and nobody wants to face them because it will lead to a war if not a World War.
 

Nilgiri

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Communist China should have been stopped ages ago what a shame!!!

That we allowed this monster to grow. They won the civil war, they took tibet and east turkistan.

Now they built themselves an economy with Western help all our jobs got outsourced to China. On top of that they built nukes.

What a shame to be honest. For decades they grew and nobody wants to face them because it will lead to a war if not a World War.

Yup I find western world hypocritical in many ways. They have indulged in human rights violations in middle east (on fake evidence w.r.t Iraq WMD)....all through that time they also helped build up PRC to what it is in some very short-sighted way (they both assumed PRC people cannot level up and stay as cheap wage stuff only etc and also assumed that somehow PRC turns into some less draconian entity after what it had done). It was all part of globalist haze of winning the cold war and deciding to reward PRC in some way since they did their bit to help w.r.t USSR in 2nd half of cold war etc.

US PNTR was signed literally while the blood stains where still quite fresh in tianenmen, ridiculous how hypocritical western govts are and how greedy+dumb wallstreet (And all the donor groups) are.

It is quite unimaginable to me what west has done w.r.t Turkey (NATO ally) for example (this goes well past Erdogan own short-sighted mistakes)...as direct result of this quagmire set up to turkey's south too.

Now we have to deal with this BS going forward....I don't let western apologists and virtue signallers off the hook when they try to act all uppity about this (PRC w.r.t uighurs). I give them a dose of their culpability in all of this....they have to coldly hold themselves to account on it to have any chance of dealing with it well going forward.
 

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