Canada Navy Canada Surface Combatant (CSC) Program

[Ted Barnes]

New concept art from LM

 

[DAVEBLOGGINS]

New concept art from LM

Nice image Ted however a 360 degree computer graphic view from LM would be better.

 

[Ted Barnes]

Nice image Ted however a 360 degree computer graphic view from LM would be better.

There are all kinds of those pictures and video, its just that they are not released to the public. Just last week I saw a presentation on the CSC, very interesting.

 

[DAVEBLOGGINS]

There are all kinds of those pictures and video, its just that they are not released to the public. Just last week I saw a presentation on the CSC, very interesting.

Care to keep the group informed Ted and share some of those pics & videos?

 

[Ted Barnes]

Care to keep the group informed Ted and share some of those pics & videos?

I believe I said they are not released to the public.

 

[DAVEBLOGGINS]

I believe I said they are not released to the public.

Understand completely Ted, however if you are the "spokesman'" for LM, let's not tease the "public" or forum members.

 

[Nilgiri]

Understand completely Ted, however if you are the "spokesman'" for LM, let's not tease the "public" or forum members.

I like his teasing lol...

 

[DAVEBLOGGINS]

I like his teasing lol...

Yeah, he does have a knack for that........doesn't he?

 

[DAVEBLOGGINS]

New Graphic from the RCN confirming my prediction of 24 VLS. It still has CAMM VLS with 24 more missiles.
View attachment 40550

There are all kinds of those pictures and video, its just that they are not released to the public. Just last week I saw a presentation on the CSC, very interesting.

Can you at least tell the forum what "version" of the MARLIN 30 30mm gun did Canada buy? Also, if they have moved the Satcom antennas fwd to around the "new" mast, why could they not then increase the size of the CIAD Sea Ceptor missiles from 24 to 48? There would certainly be enough room for them there either side of the VLS there now and would not be a problem with weight distribution. Just a thought. Cheer!

 

[Ted Barnes]

Some for tidbits for the people not in the know. From someone that was just at CANSEC.

• Safran is providing the New Generation Dagaie System which launches decoys. They are providing one system per ship two launchers total, one port one starboard fitted above the flex deck space on the ASM deck by the looks of things.
  
  They can launch the standard IR and RF decoys (chaff and flare), but can also do an Active Offboard Decoy which is an interesting touch. I expect that last one creates emissions that simulate a ship and can pull radar homing missiles away. It's also able to deploy Anti Torp decoys but I expect that the torp decoy system will be dedicated (I believe ULTRA electronics is providing that).
  
  The Safran vendor told me however the MDA was dealing with the ammunition that it would use, which the MDA vendor didn't know too much about, but that might have been a language barrier (the Safran vendor was very Parisian and between her accented English and my terrible French there might have been a breakdown).
  
  
• Speaking of MDA they are providing quite a bit of stuff. X-band fire control radar, laser warning detector, laser dazzler/defence system (not for people but to counter laser targeting), and the ESM communications suite. I was told that they are also optimizing the antenna for the RAVEN ECM. MDA is also integrating the entire EW suite together, or perhaps they are second fiddle to LMC for that integration work. That was a bit unclear to me.
  
  
• IrvinGQ is providing a floating decoy.
  
  
• Leonardo is going to provide the MARLIN-WS 30mm as the guns for the quarters above the hangar. I'm guessing that they bid both the 30mm and 127mm together beating out BAE for the package.
  
  What is interesting to me is the three options available either Remote Controlled, Coax Camera or Independent Line of Sight. If I had to pick an option it would be ILOS. The fact that the gun can take external targeting information from CMS is very interesting. This opens up the potential of the Xband FC radar giving information to the gun which will then automatically swivel and shoot with the appropriate rounds (dual feed so you can select one of two options).
  
  The elevation is -19 to +70 and it has airburst munitions which are the best option vs boat swarms and small UAV's/loitering munitions

 

[Nilgiri]

Some for tidbits for the people not in the know. From someone that was just at CANSEC.

• Safran is providing the New Generation Dagaie System which launches decoys. They are providing one system per ship two launchers total, one port one starboard fitted above the flex deck space on the ASM deck by the looks of things.
  
  They can launch the standard IR and RF decoys (chaff and flare), but can also do an Active Offboard Decoy which is an interesting touch. I expect that last one creates emissions that simulate a ship and can pull radar homing missiles away. It's also able to deploy Anti Torp decoys but I expect that the torp decoy system will be dedicated (I believe ULTRA electronics is providing that).
  
  The Safran vendor told me however the MDA was dealing with the ammunition that it would use, which the MDA vendor didn't know too much about, but that might have been a language barrier (the Safran vendor was very Parisian and between her accented English and my terrible French there might have been a breakdown).
  
  
• Speaking of MDA they are providing quite a bit of stuff. X-band fire control radar, laser warning detector, laser dazzler/defence system (not for people but to counter laser targeting), and the ESM communications suite. I was told that they are also optimizing the antenna for the RAVEN ECM. MDA is also integrating the entire EW suite together, or perhaps they are second fiddle to LMC for that integration work. That was a bit unclear to me.
  
  
• IrvinGQ is providing a floating decoy.
  
  
• Leonardo is going to provide the MARLIN-WS 30mm as the guns for the quarters above the hangar. I'm guessing that they bid both the 30mm and 127mm together beating out BAE for the package.
  
  What is interesting to me is the three options available either Remote Controlled, Coax Camera or Independent Line of Sight. If I had to pick an option it would be ILOS. The fact that the gun can take external targeting information from CMS is very interesting. This opens up the potential of the Xband FC radar giving information to the gun which will then automatically swivel and shoot with the appropriate rounds (dual feed so you can select one of two options).
  
  The elevation is -19 to +70 and it has airburst munitions which are the best option vs boat swarms and small UAV's/loitering munitions

@Anmdt @AlphaMike

 

[DAVEBLOGGINS]

Some for tidbits for the people not in the know. From someone that was just at CANSEC.

• Safran is providing the New Generation Dagaie System which launches decoys. They are providing one system per ship two launchers total, one port one starboard fitted above the flex deck space on the ASM deck by the looks of things.
  
  They can launch the standard IR and RF decoys (chaff and flare), but can also do an Active Offboard Decoy which is an interesting touch. I expect that last one creates emissions that simulate a ship and can pull radar homing missiles away. It's also able to deploy Anti Torp decoys but I expect that the torp decoy system will be dedicated (I believe ULTRA electronics is providing that).
  
  The Safran vendor told me however the MDA was dealing with the ammunition that it would use, which the MDA vendor didn't know too much about, but that might have been a language barrier (the Safran vendor was very Parisian and between her accented English and my terrible French there might have been a breakdown).
  
  
• Speaking of MDA they are providing quite a bit of stuff. X-band fire control radar, laser warning detector, laser dazzler/defence system (not for people but to counter laser targeting), and the ESM communications suite. I was told that they are also optimizing the antenna for the RAVEN ECM. MDA is also integrating the entire EW suite together, or perhaps they are second fiddle to LMC for that integration work. That was a bit unclear to me.
  
  
• IrvinGQ is providing a floating decoy.
  
  
• Leonardo is going to provide the MARLIN-WS 30mm as the guns for the quarters above the hangar. I'm guessing that they bid both the 30mm and 127mm together beating out BAE for the package.
  
  What is interesting to me is the three options available either Remote Controlled, Coax Camera or Independent Line of Sight. If I had to pick an option it would be ILOS. The fact that the gun can take external targeting information from CMS is very interesting. This opens up the potential of the Xband FC radar giving information to the gun which will then automatically swivel and shoot with the appropriate rounds (dual feed so you can select one of two options).
  
  The elevation is -19 to +70 and it has airburst munitions which are the best option vs boat swarms and small UAV's/loitering munitions

The MARLIN-WS 30mm options are very interesting. The ILOS option would be an excellent choice for the CSC Frigate. My only query would be, what X Band Illumination Radar will MDA present to LM for the CSC Frigate. This radar will be critical for Mid-Short range targeting as well as air & surface tracking. My belief has always been, will MDA develop their own radar system or will they acquire an "off-shore" system, such as the French Naval Sea Fire 500 X band Illumination radar for the CSC Frigate and "Canadianize" it? An excellent radar choice for FC targeting.

 

[DAVEBLOGGINS]

The LM SPY 7 advanced radar system for the CSC Frigate has just received the Government of Canada's official nomenclature –
AN/SPY 7 (V) 3. See below:

The Canadian Surface Combatant SPY-7 Radar Earns Official Government of Canada Designation

new_item_en

www.canadiandefencereview.com

 

[DAVEBLOGGINS]

The Liberal government is now "mulling" over the idea of giving Irving Shipyard another $300 million to upgrade its yard to build the CSC Frigates. See below:

Liberals mull giving Irving an extra $300 million to build warships

An Irving executive says the shipyard needs upgrades that were not originally anticipated to build the Canadian Surface Combatant Ships.

ottawacitizen.com

 

[Ted Barnes]

The Liberal government is now "mulling" over the idea of giving Irving Shipyard another $300 million to upgrade its yard to build the CSC Frigates. See below:

Liberals mull giving Irving an extra $300 million to build warships

An Irving executive says the shipyard needs upgrades that were not originally anticipated to build the Canadian Surface Combatant Ships.

ottawacitizen.com

Its actually 100M for a syncrolift and changes to the internals of the existing structure. I love when David Pugliese quotes "industry sources" which is pretty much in every hit piece he writes, probably Davie shipbuilding.

 

[Ted Barnes]

 

[DAVEBLOGGINS]

Its actually 100M for a syncrolift and changes to the internals of the existing structure. I love when David Pugliese quotes "industry sources" which is pretty much in every hit piece he writes, probably Davie shipbuilding.

David Pugliese says $300 Million more needed by Irving to build the CSC Frigates; you quote $100 Million for a new synchrolift and "internals changes". Which is it 1 or 3? What are your "sources"? (don't tell me; need to know....right?) It's getting to the point now that nobody knows who is lying to get a "headline", or who is telling the truth in Ottawa lately!

 

[Ted Barnes]

David Pugliese says $300 Million more needed by Irving to build the CSC Frigates; you quote $100 Million for a new synchrolift and "internals changes". Which is it 1 or 3? What are your "sources"? (don't tell me; need to know....right?) It's getting to the point now that nobody knows who is lying to get a "headline", or who is telling the truth in Ottawa lately!

Pugliese is a well known opponent of the CSC and has consistently painted it in a bad light and well known with playing fast and lose with the "facts" just like Ken Hansen.

 

[DAVEBLOGGINS]

Pugliese is a well known opponent of the CSC and has consistently painted it in a bad light and well known with playing fast and lose with the "facts" just like Ken Hansen.

Playing "fast and lose" with the facts as you say, is never good for anyone especially the Canadian public and the RCN for their future naval requirements. As we all know "Nothing" has been signed yet WRT the CSC frigate program and this requirement by Irving to build these "monsters" could very well "go-by-the way-side" just as quickly as Irving thinks it has put one over on the Liberal government! The only losers in all of this mess will be the RCN and its sailors. If you can't substantiate your articles then best to not write anything at all!

 

[Ted Barnes]

Playing "fast and lose" with the facts as you say, is never good for anyone especially the Canadian public and the RCN for their future naval requirements. As we all know "Nothing" has been signed yet WRT the CSC frigate program and this requirement by Irving to build these "monsters" could very well "go-by-the way-side" just as quickly as Irving thinks it has put one over on the Liberal government! The only losers in all of this mess will be the RCN and its sailors. If you can't substantiate your articles then best to not write anything at all!

Put "one over" right......where's your substantiation of that eh? The simple fact is that the prime contractor expected to build a substantially smaller vessel in tonnage when they signed the combat package contract and the government years later bloated so the prime contractor has gone back to the government for more funds. In project management if the client continues to make changes that violates the budget then you are certainly in your rights to ask for more funds. You don't have to agree with it because you have your mind made up. Why do you think they are in contract talks right now? You are right nothing has been signed except for years of effort to design the ship, and agreements in place with all the suppliers to supply the systems. Systems are getting built for these ships right now BTW. The government has gone all in on these ships and they are getting produced despite what Pugliese, Hansen and what you say.