China China to unveil J-35A stealth fighter jet

[Gessler]

Bro, I don't think I have compared it with F35. With its high power generation capacity, uniquely capable sensor fusion engine, mutliple implemented extensive upgrade cycles already, F35 leads any platform in class by a wide margin.

That reply was mostly for @Strong AI Who raised questions about where J35's avionics could stand in comparison to American 5th gen standard.

I simply said - if your engine can't match the American standard, then your avionics can't either.

Because one is tied to the other.

However, we did had discussions on F35's power generation specifically on KAAN thread. Afaik, it has three generators 80kw each. One is reserved so it is 160kw in average. I am not sure where did you get 400kva, any source? Perhaps a new development. Though, I did read the news of RTX upgrading its EPACS to 80kw cooling capacity. Which, as you say is enormous.

160 was a very early configuration, it was then upgraded to 300 and then 400 as electrical demand went up.

It's going to increase further as engine upgrade is coming up.

Pentagon pressing ahead with F-35 engine upgrade

The US Department of Defense is affirming its commitment to delivering an engine upgrade for the Lockheed Martin F-35 stealth fighter, with a recent $1.3 billion contract to propulsion supplier Pratt & Whitney to fund continued development of the initiative.

www.flightglobal.com

"The goal of the ECU programme is to improve the capacity of the F-35’s existing single engine to provide electrical power and cooling to onboard systems."

As for AESA sensor, I remember we talked about it a year ago or so. But from what I know now, GaN vs GaAs doesn't matter that much. It is much more about the design of TRM itself, antenna design=gain/directivity, digital beamforming, processing unit, etc. (I.e. you can still make shitty GaN based AESA compared to APG-81) Let's say even if you increase the transmission power output by 100% utilizing powerful GaN TRMs, you will only get an increase in range by roughly 20%. (From what I read, efficiency improvement is minor. Highly efficient GaAs TRM are also designed and manufactured today) So you improve the detection range by putting more TRM and having a bigger array, according to 'AESA radar calculator' developer. By increasing the numbers of TRM and antenna by 100%, you get an 68% increase in detection range (assuming we are using the same TRMs+antenna without changing the other factors, as duty cycle or the environment) On another forum he gave this very simplified equation.

Rfac = ((1200/1200)^3*(10/10))^(1/4)
Rfac = 1

Rfac = ((1200/1200)^3*(20/10))^(1/4)
Rfac = 1.19

Rfac = ((2400/1200)^3*(10/10))^(1/4)
Rfac =1.68

DOWNLOAD-AESA Radar calculator V3.

Though, I can see why GaN array is more lucrative in EW applications. I.e. due to its significantly high transmission output capacity. That's probably why APG-85 EA capabilities is going to be insane.

GaN starts to matter when & if you actually have the ability to take advantage of its higher output capacity. Otherwise it represents a very marginal improvement in capability.

Currently only F35 is equipped to truly make use of GaN's potential.

 

[Radonsider]

That reply was mostly for @Strong AI Who raised questions about where J35's avionics could stand in comparison to American 5th gen standard.

I simply said - if your engine can't match the American standard, then your avionics can't either.

Because one is tied to the other.



160 was a very early configuration, it was then upgraded to 300 and then 400 as electrical demand went up.

View attachment 71871

It's going to increase further as engine upgrade is coming up.

Pentagon pressing ahead with F-35 engine upgrade

The US Department of Defense is affirming its commitment to delivering an engine upgrade for the Lockheed Martin F-35 stealth fighter, with a recent $1.3 billion contract to propulsion supplier Pratt & Whitney to fund continued development of the initiative.

www.flightglobal.com

"The goal of the ECU programme is to improve the capacity of the F-35’s existing single engine to provide electrical power and cooling to onboard systems."



GaN starts to matter when & if you actually have the ability to take advantage of its higher output capacity. Otherwise it represents a very marginal improvement in capability.

Currently only F35 is equipped to truly make use of GaN's potential.

BS

 

[Afif]

 

[Afif]

 

[SilverMachine]

Have to admit, it's a little prettier to look at than the original F-35 it's cheap-imitating 15 years too late. A little less chunky, and the twin engines always looks better asthetically. No VTOL with this thing though, right? Not sure I see the point in dropping that, it's a big part of the 35's usefulness.

 

[uçuyorum]

Have to admit, it's a little prettier to look at than the original F-35 it's cheap-imitating 15 years too late. A little less chunky, and the twin engines always looks better asthetically. No VTOL with this thing though, right? Not sure I see the point in dropping that, it's a big part of the 35's usefulness.

"Dropping" VTOL is a weird statement. But F35B variant carries significantly less fuel and munitions. This is the air force variant anyways

 

[RMZN]

Have to admit, it's a little prettier to look at than the original F-35 it's cheap-imitating 15 years too late. A little less chunky, and the twin engines always looks better asthetically. No VTOL with this thing though, right? Not sure I see the point in dropping that, it's a big part of the 35's usefulness.

Because they dont need a VTOL fighter lol. Meanwhile the US Navy also prefers the F-35C over the B variant.

Also how is it 15 years late? China didn't enter into any conflict with the US yet. Now they will mass produce their own domestic 5th gen carrier fighter.

 

[SilverMachine]

The point being the tech in this thing, being an F-35 knock-off, was impressive and cutting edge when the Joint trike Fighter team did it. By the time the Chinese are actually fielding this thing operationally, it'll be old news compared to the new variants & potentially even new early-stage airframe the wet will be coming up with. Yes, quality isn't everything and can sometimes be overcome with quantity, and China can no doubt do quantity. But plane-for-plane nobody's that worried about this thing.

And yeah that's a point I guess about VTOL, not like China has a lot of carriers to work with. Still, you'd figure being able to land/park them anywhere flat would be an advantage in any future conflict to break out.

In any case, 35s, OG real ones or off-brand copies alike, are pretty lame. 22's still for the win.

 

[blackjack]

China is like 3 years behind Taiwan in semiconductor technology and we all do know Japan or Taiwan are like number 1 in MMICs https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Te...ities-just-3-years-behind-TSMC-teardown-shows So that is indeed impressive considering they were really behind before but closing the gap really fast. The rate they are going they might be equal to or surpassing Taiwan or Japan meaning if future avionics upgrades happen(which they usually do) the radar on the aircraft will more than likely be more advanced than US radars since they get their MMICs from either Japan or Taiwan.

Still undecided if the latest avionics on the Su-57 will receive photonic radars or not because 2024 was the timeframe the PIC production started while they have the newer Su-57s with new avionics and new engines set for 2025.

https://technomoscow.ru/event/tekhnoklub-proizvodstvo-fotonnykh-integralnykh-skhem-fis/?ysclid=m3jsbw4vxq604797559

Ученый назвал сроки испытания фотонного процессора в России

В России соберут экспериментальный образец фотонного процессора, который сможет обрабатывать информацию в сотни раз быстрее современных цифровых нейросетей. Об этом сообщил РИА Новости участник ...

www.rbc.ru

Scientists of the National Center for Physics and Mathematics Have Created a Sample of Analog Photonic Processor, with its Performance Close to the World Record

In the device, the information processing speed is close to the record for such processors – over five quadrillion (5.3 * 1015) bits per second

ssau.ru

Ростех - Медиа - Новости - «Швабе» поделился планами по развитию радиофотоники

rostec.ru

They have started producing PICs a little over a week ago.

https://iz.ru/1786402/maria-neduk/nahodka-dla-fotona-v-rf-nacnut-proizvodit-pribory-svazi-novogo-pokolenia

Assuming this is used the radars will be using particles of light(photons) instead of electrons from radio waves for digital processing of information which would give radar readings more accurate readings with rumors the signal to noise ratio would improve by 100 times meaning if you can see a .01m2 target at 400kms instead of a 1m2 target, It can also operate with 100ghz frequencies without atmospheric conditions effecting range because of photons being used for the electronic processing instead of electrons which is used in conventional methods for radars that use MMICs. The radars are as thin as skin which can be bodied across the aircraft.


Lets say for the sake they wont use photonic radars but GaN(they made the modules for the Himalayas EW system in 2014) for the new 2025 radars. They already have 360 degree infrared and UV coverage, 360 degree radar coverage(I have Niip.ru and latest KRET news articles that state the back uses active radar detection for those interested that its no longer 240-degree detection but 360) with long wave 180-degree infrared detection because of their IRST. The MIRES uses data fusion of all of this for more pinpoint accuracy to deal with incoming missiles through situational awareness. Su-57 would utilize DIRCM to blind infrared homing heads and over like 2,200 AESA T/R modules with Himalayas for heavy suppression for anything X-band or lower on radar homing heads, and if worse comes to worst chaffs and flares for additional countermeasures will be used for infrared and radar homing heads.

The most underestimated feature is the aircrafts maneuverability. By trading speed for agility, the Su-57 can point its stealthiest aspect to the threat on a dime (distance of combat will shorten if 2 stealth aircrafts get closer and closer making maneuverability more important the closer they come), instantly cutting detection range. The reduced speed will also significantly reduce doppler returns as well as IR returns from skin friction heating.

Another interesting thing is that Link 16 is 300-500 nautical miles. S-108 has like a 800km max distance(s-107-1 data) S-111 boasts 1,500km range for Su-57, now they made a breakthrough where the distance can be 6000kms https://rostec.ru/media/news/razrab...ustoychivost-zagorizontnoy-svyazi-do-6000-km/