India Coffee House

[Nilgiri]

Sad to see his departure.... rest in peace.

Industrialist Rahul Bajaj, India's original 'Make in India' king, dies at 83

Eminent industrialist and former chairman of the Bajaj group, Rahul Bajaj, who put Indian industry on the world map and was known for his outspokenness, died on Saturday due to age-related illness, according to a group official.

www.tribuneindia.com

Eminent industrialist and former chairman of the Bajaj group, Rahul Bajaj, who put Indian industry on the world map and was known for his outspokenness, died on Saturday due to age-related illness, according to a group official.

Bajaj (83), who stood down from his position of non-executive director and chairman of Bajaj Auto on April 30 last year and remained as the Chairman Emeritus, was not keeping well for some time and passed away at around 2:30 pm on Saturday. His last rites will be held on Sunday, the official said.

President Ram Nath Kovind and Prime Minister Narendra Modi expressed grief at the demise of Bajaj and recalled his contributions to the world of industry.

While the President said Bajaj’s career reflected the rise and innate strength of the nation’s corporate sector and his death leaves a void in the world of industry, Modi said Bajaj was also passionate about community service and was a great conversationalist.

Bajaj is survived by two sons, Rajiv Bajaj and Sanjiv Bajaj, and a daughter Sunaina Kejriwal.

Born on June 10, 1938, he headed the Bajaj group of companies which have presence across segments such as automobiles, general and life insurance, investment and consumer finance, home appliances, electric lamps, wind energy, special alloy and stainless steel, material handling equipment and travel.

After taking charge of the Bajaj group business in 1965, Rahul Bajaj led it to the growth path. He steered the diversified entity during India’s transition from a closed economy to a liberalised one and drove the company to expand its product portfolio with the Bajaj brand finding foothold in global markets while warding off emerging competition from Japanese motorcycle makers that challenged the Bajaj Auto’s scooters.

Under his stewardship, flagship firm Bajaj Auto saw its turnover growing to Rs 12,000 crore from just Rs 7.2 crore with the firm’s scooters becoming the mainstay.

The company’s Bajaj Chetak scooter became an aspirational symbol for the middle class Indian families then, with the ‘Humara Bajaj’ tune becoming synonymous with their hopes of a better future.

In 2005, he had started passing the baton of the company to son Rajiv Bajaj, who became the managing director of Bajaj Auto and led the company to become a truly global automobile player.

One of the most successful business leaders of India, Bajaj was elected to Rajya Sabha in June 2006 and remained a member till 2010.

CII president T V Narendran described him as one of greatest and tallest visionary leaders, auto maker TVS chairman Venu Srinivasan said Bajaj strode across the Indian industrial landscape like a colossus.

Known for his outspokenness, in November 2019, at an event organised by the Economic Times in Mumbai where Home Minister Amit Shah, Finance Minister Nirmala Sitharaman, and Commerce Minister Piyush Goyal were present, the veteran industrialist spoke about the government’s ‘stifling of criticism’, among other things.

“This environment of fear, it’s definitely on our minds. You (the government) are doing good work; and despite that, we don’t have the confidence that you’ll appreciate criticism,” he had said.

Bajaj was recipient of many awards, including the Padma Bhushan and honorary doctorates from many universities.

He also held many other positions, including the chairman of Indian Airlines and chairman of the board of governors of the Indian Institute of Technology, Bombay.

He was also a former chairman of the International Business Council, World Economic Forum and a former member of the South Asia advisory board of Harvard Business School.

Besides, he was a former member of the International Advisory Council of the Brookings Institution in Washington, DC.

The industrialist also spearheaded the CSR activities of the Bajaj Group of companies and charitable trusts including Jamnalal Bajaj Foundation.

He had done BA (Honours) in Economics from Delhi University, a law degree from Mumbai University and an MBA from Harvard Business School.

 

[Rajendra Chola]

Will have to read your posts (and everyone elses) in more measured way when I have bit more time.

But this one strikes close to me...I am reminded of a dear (long departed and much missed) elder family member of mine who faced quite some shocking treatment from some Christian radicals/extremists. She never forgot it....and this made some fury within her (as wonderful a person as she otherwise was)....so much so that she stood out in her political support for my otherwise tempered family. Congress party crystallised as enemy for her...so much so she would lend full support even to types like VP Singh (that attracted distaste from say my father). She simply wanted to see INC utterly destroyed.

This is a lady though that had the greatest abiding honour and respect for Kamaraj though (and his congress of the time).

But there are radicals and extremists in each group of people...that have their effect in the end on regular people.

More people have to become attuned to this phenomenon rather than fight fire with fire.

It is easier said than done.



Congratulations and best wishes are in order

You would be surprised the stories coming out of TN. I had someone when I was in college days, travelling somewhere in Sivaganga alone in a bus, person near me requested me to convert.

My friend who is very docile, someone who in the gang is always polite, has an unknown hatred for evangelists. When he was a kid, playing cricket with his friends, promising them to buy a new bat and ball, someone took the kids to the nearby Church and starting saying prayers to clense the kids of "demonic influence". Since 2004, after Tsunami, Church started receiving lots of foreign money and started to court DMK, ADMK, VCK even BJP parties for benefits. It's shocking to see pastors sitting with political leaders asking people to vote for a party. It's completely illegal. Imagine iyengars of Chidambaram temple asking its devotees to vote for a party.
But parties are sitting tight, mouth shut, for money and funding. Church in TN has become fundamentalists. I can't give a percentage, but the hate Church has for native culture can be felt. You speak against it, you get labelled as Hindutva.

 

[crixus]

We used to have bajaj pulsar 150 cc and Baja Chetak ... really loved that ad buland bharat ki buland tasvir

 

[Joe Shearer]

You would be surprised the stories coming out of TN. I had someone when I was in college days, travelling somewhere in Sivaganga alone in a bus, person near me requested me to convert.

My friend who is very docile, someone who in the gang is always polite, has an unknown hatred for evangelists. When he was a kid, playing cricket with his friends, promising them to buy a new bat and ball, someone took the kids to the nearby Church and starting saying prayers to clense the kids of "demonic influence". Since 2004, after Tsunami, Church started receiving lots of foreign money and started to court DMK, ADMK, VCK even BJP parties for benefits. It's shocking to see pastors sitting with political leaders asking people to vote for a party. It's completely illegal. Imagine iyengars of Chidambaram temple asking its devotees to vote for a party.
But parties are sitting tight, mouth shut, for money and funding. Church in TN has become fundamentalists. I can't give a percentage, but the hate Church has for native culture can be felt. You speak against it, you get labelled as Hindutva.

This is really shocking to hear. Really disturbing.

 

[Rajendra Chola]

This is really shocking to hear. Really disturbing.

This is resulting in reverse polarisation. God forbid, if there will be religious social unrests in TN, it will be Christians and not with Muslims. Hundreds of reports are already there of Christians singing in front of ancient Hindu temples, cleansing it of demon, giving sermons to Hindus in front of their temples, going to every home (it still can be considered fundamental right to propagate their religion, but not hate). One famous preacher called Hindu temple as Satanic presence. Not a single party condemned him. He finally apologized when pulled up in court. Look up Mohan Lazarus, George Ponnaiah, Bishop Ezra Sarkunam etc.

 

[crixus]

10 Facts About Ilker Ayci, The New CEO Of Air India​

Ilker Ayci, the former Turkish Airlines Chairman, was appointed the Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director of Air India on Monday​

All IndiaEdited by NDTV NewsdeskUpdated: February 14, 2022 5:51 pm IST
by Taboola
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Ilker Ayci said he was delighted and honoured to join the Tata Group



Former Turkish Airlines Chairman Ilker Ayci has been appointed the new Chief Executive Officer (CEO) and Managing Director (MD) of Air India by its new owners, the Tata Sons, on Monday. In a press release, Tata Sons said that after a lot of discussions, the board approved the nomination of Mr Ayci as CEO and MD of Air India. The company added that the appointment was subject to regulatory approvals. Mr Ayci will take charge on or before April 1, 2022.
After his appointment, Mr Ayci said that he was delighted and honoured to join the Tata Group and lead the iconic airline. He went on to add that he would “utilise the strong heritage of Air India to make it one of the best airlines in the world with a uniquely superior flying experience that reflects Indian warmth and hospitality”.
Here are 10 things about the new CEO and MD of Air India:
1) Ilker Ayci was born in the city of Istanbul, Turkey, in the year 1971.
2) He graduated from the Department of Political Science and Public Administration at Bilkent University in Turkey in 1994.
3) After graduating from Bilkent University, Mr Ayci served as a researcher in the Department of Political Sciences at Leeds University in the UK in 1995.
4) Mr Ayci also completed a Master's degree in International Relations from Marmara University in Turkey in 1997.




5) He began his career in 1994 and has been associated with organisations such as Kurtsan Ilaclari A.S., and Istanbul Metropolitan Municipality, among others.
6) Between 2005 and 2006, Mr Ayci worked as a general manager for Basak Sigorta A.S., and then for Gunes Sigorta A.S. between 2006 and 2011.
7) He has also been on the board of the Turkish Football Federation and Turkish Airlines Sports Club, apart from being a Member of The Canadian Turkish Business Council and a Member of the US-Turkey Business Council.
8) Mr Ayci was previously the Chairman of the Republic of Turkey Investment Support and Promotion Agency in 2011. It's the official organisation in charge of promoting Turkey's investment opportunities to the international business community.


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9) He was elected vice president of the World Association of Investment Promotion Agencies in 2013, and then its chairman in January 2014.
Comments10) Until very recently, Mr Ayci was the chairman of Turkish Airlines and was on the company's board before that.

10 Facts About Ilker Ayci, The New CEO Of Air India

Ilker Ayci, the former Turkish Airlines Chairman, was appointed the Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director of Air India on Monday

www.ndtv.com

@T-123456 @Nilgiri @Jackdaws @Zapper

 

[crixus]

I think he is the first Turkish origin CEO of any Indian company

 

[Zapper]

Eager to see Tata with the leadership of Ilker who did a commendable job with Turkish airlines turn around Air India after the govt screwed up so badly

 

[Zapper]

https://nordicmonitor.com/2020/04/o...usiness-by-head-of-turkish-investment-agency/

@crixus

 

[The Ultranationalist]

RIP sir.

 

[crixus]

https://nordicmonitor.com/2020/04/o...usiness-by-head-of-turkish-investment-agency/

@crixus

I think every company do proper background check before handing over offer letter , I am sure they have discussed this issue and got a satisfactory clarification.

As Deng Xiaoping said :

"It doesn't matter whether a cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice."

 

[Nilgiri]

https://nordicmonitor.com/2020/04/o...usiness-by-head-of-turkish-investment-agency/

@crixus

Nordicmonitor has deepset animus against Turkish state currently....so not an honest source on these matters.

It is run by what Turks call a "Gulenist" iirc.

 

[Nilgiri]

You would be surprised the stories coming out of TN. I had someone when I was in college days, travelling somewhere in Sivaganga alone in a bus, person near me requested me to convert.

My friend who is very docile, someone who in the gang is always polite, has an unknown hatred for evangelists. When he was a kid, playing cricket with his friends, promising them to buy a new bat and ball, someone took the kids to the nearby Church and starting saying prayers to clense the kids of "demonic influence". Since 2004, after Tsunami, Church started receiving lots of foreign money and started to court DMK, ADMK, VCK even BJP parties for benefits. It's shocking to see pastors sitting with political leaders asking people to vote for a party. It's completely illegal. Imagine iyengars of Chidambaram temple asking its devotees to vote for a party.
But parties are sitting tight, mouth shut, for money and funding. Church in TN has become fundamentalists. I can't give a percentage, but the hate Church has for native culture can be felt. You speak against it, you get labelled as Hindutva.

Not too surprised at all (I have had my ears open a while now...from various sides/sources too)

Lately I just tend to put into some larger perspectives (this is what helps me in the end dealing with the identity politics undercurrents and reactionary swellings in many different groups)

The way I see it each identity group (worldwide) tends to have:

1) Staunch conservatives (some portion of these being theocrat/zealot/radical/extreme or prone to it)

2) Regular "middle"...made of a number of apologists for the above...but also providing some counter-inertia against them

3) Progressive/Liberal that keep some portion of the identity for utility/legacy/inertia but are very open/tolerant/functional/pragmatic to other groups (or prioritise other identities they have).

Some portion of (3) avidly reject (or even work to undermine) all trappings of (especially cultural and/or national) identity entirely...and somewhat unwittingly drive group 1's force potentials.

Some folks (maybe even most) even straddle across all these in varying degrees/aspects since there are lot of segments to each part (I consider myself as one of these, but its complicated of course).

Religions are no different and represent some of the oldest (especially continuous) identities regarding it...exacerbated by religions having clashed in history.

The perceived flux, wax and wane of these groups of people within each identity (impacting on each other and other groups) is a long subject to get into.

When it manifests in political arena, it becomes "identity politics" in the basic sense. Flashpoints can be quite low in duration but high in intensity. ....or can be high in duration and low in intensity (and everything in between).

In India we have its particular unique form...with the large majority (itself a collection of groups) and many numbered minorities....all of them each looking (well group 1 of each that is) to strengthen their leverage and position for the long term (and not really giving enough pause for thought and rational peaceful deference)

Why does it all happen (almost inevitably)?

Why and how does a smaller group perceive and acts (via group 1) w.r.t a larger "Established" group on that is what we see in various ways everywhere (as the smaller gets pushed into corners easier and gets both defensive and prone to exploratory outbursts as well)?

It is often complicated by smaller groups having developed organisational, institutional, economic and even political muscle...that they do not compromise on easily (because of these being perceived shields to protect their smaller numbers).

The bigger majority must be attuned to this as possible....India is still finding its way on this (lot of countries took centuries inevitably with lot of sad reversals on progress made).

I for one know a fellow in california that worked for NASA/JPL in his younger life....now long retired and has become extreme conservative + dogmatic on some very silly things (against science + logic).

The evangelical thing as it manifests there basically....he got into a big argument with me about the Earth being exactly as old as it says in the bible...and his support towards biblical creationism soon followed as well...and I eventually just side stepped that whole aspect of him altogether (in both our mental interests and friendship on other things).

This guy was a very high level NASA engineer (and he leans quite liberal on lot of other things is the funniest part haha). For example he has a very headstrong Vietnamese wife....a very fascinating woman by herself actually with a deep story.

Maybe later I will get into some other stories I have (there is one about a Mormon that had long convo with me on a train, where he basically tried to initiate a conversion, though I only understood what that all was much later as part of his "mission" heh).

But regarding the evangelising theocracy-driven approach....I can similarly give number of deep comments some quebecers have told me about what anglo-saxon churches tried to usurp/displace and the blowbacks given by that (be it 20 years ago, or 50 years ago or 100 years ago and more).

That too these are fellow Christians in the end! (Barely registering any theological separation in say the relative hindu/dharmic fold)

But its really too long a story to get into depth (maybe later again I will)...I simply want to bring to attention for now that the issue at hand is somewhat universal, and India has its particular versions and variants of it.

Overall Ceterus Paribus, With the abrahamic religions in general, there is a theological dogma of the finality of one life (in that you need to be saved in this life and only this one) that drives the proselytsying (and agitation) of their evangelicals, jesuit priests and so on (especially the conservative to radical types)...compared to the dharmic fold in general (where there is often a more default larger acceptance all human souls in all religions eventually reach the ultimate reality).

One can definitely run into it in a bad way....in any number of ways when you come across a theocrat or variant thereof.

The Tsunami 2004 episode was one you mention, I came across it another way regarding the Nepal Earthquake too....the "soul vulture" evangelical groups as I remarked to an elderly US conservative Christian friend (who had quite a chuckle about that term).

But in general I try look past these in-group vs out-group strife/tension as far as I can (as its a global thing in the end to human species)....I look for the best aspects/attributes of every group and treat those as the default when remembering them by).

My mind is somewhat frail and weary by these things if it kept count of all the negative stuff each group has given to me and those I know...keeping a running tally there (subject to bias and my own inherited privilege) sits wrong with me...so I put that (correctly I feel) as the tribal (mean, vindictive, angst ridden) human nature surfacing via the inherited identity.

For example (with the Indian Christians specifically) I deeply appreciate their contribution when there is deep recognition, synthesis and understanding of the older spiritual culture they have sojourned to....like that of G U Pope and his astonishing translation and commentary on the tiruvasagam.

The impact of Christian-run schools on my family as a whole also runs very deep....they have strong institutional strength and legacy there...and very well deserved one IMO (though this has become controversy and flashpoint as well in some spots in whichever way as well).

There are certain advantages to some aspects of realised human psyche and endeavour with a one-life finality/absolute that I also perceive (with the Christian religion especially given the contours of its particular absorption into Europe historically).

It is a long conversation with lot of give and take in the debate.....few really explore these nuances with a good intent and well rounded perspective and knowledge on it.

India was, is and will be no stranger to this stuff in its great matrix of reality and possibility (of the religion and identity spectrum)...and its great variance by region on top.

How to keep the extreme contained systematically as possible (especially the escalation chain I speak of regarding agitation + resentment) away from actionable power (over other human souls) is the trillions of dollars question and matter in the end.

India has a certain bulk and glue deep within it that aids it compared to say Europe (given the contexts of wealth and enlightenment IMO of the 20th century and the drastic failure Europe realised on it with all it had going for it)....

....but India is also so massive and diverse there are huge painful consequences by even a small % churn (normalised, sinusoidal or transient accelerative).

 

[Ryder]

Congrats to Ilker Ayci hopefully he succeeds and turns around Air India.

 

[Nilgiri]

I would like to invite @xenon5434 @Saithan and @merzifonlu to read the last few pages (at their leisure and interest) as I know they have interest and their own opinions on this subject (both at large and specifically to India).

Starting from HTurk original posted video is probably best for context:

Coffee House

Happy Independence Day to fellow Indian members

defencehub.live

Probably best to read all the way through (to this post) first to see all the responses,discussion context and convo addition + evolution etc....and then give any remarks on their thoughts if they have any.

Any comments, questions etc at any point are most welcome from all members.

Joe is an especially valuable resource on this matter if you can get him to share his stories/perspective...often from time long before one was born

 

[Joe Shearer]

This is resulting in reverse polarisation. God forbid, if there will be religious social unrests in TN, it will be Christians and not with Muslims. Hundreds of reports are already there of Christians singing in front of ancient Hindu temples, cleansing it of demon, giving sermons to Hindus in front of their temples, going to every home (it still can be considered fundamental right to propagate their religion, but not hate). One famous preacher called Hindu temple as Satanic presence. Not a single party condemned him. He finally apologized when pulled up in court. Look up Mohan Lazarus, George Ponnaiah, Bishop Ezra Sarkunam etc.

You have successfully made my blood run cold. George Ponnaiah has been in the news from time to time, but now I am warned to keep an eye out for the other two.

What you describe is hate speech, as egregious as that of the monkeys who claim to represent Hindus and make violent speeches and create dramatic moments, and needs legal action in concert with local police, as quickly as possible, before these trends are any further strengthened and stabilised.

You do realise, of course, that in spite of the urge to call out these actions, it is of the utmost importance for apolitical and secular-minded Hindus to retain their balance, and not to throw out the baby with the bath-water - not, in other words, condemn all Christians, everywhere in the state, or in the country, leave alone the world, for the actions of an intemperate and head-strong minority. The utmost self-discipline is needed.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Not too surprised at all (I have had my ears open a while now...from various sides/sources too)

Lately I just tend to put into some larger perspectives (this is what helps me in the end dealing with the identity politics undercurrents and reactionary swellings in many different groups)

The way I see it each identity group (worldwide) tends to have:

1) Staunch conservatives (some portion of these being theocrat/zealot/radical/extreme or prone to it)

2) Regular "middle"...made of a number of apologists for the above...but also providing some counter-inertia against them

3) Progressive/Liberal that keep some portion of the identity for utility/legacy/inertia but are very open/tolerant/functional/pragmatic to other groups (or prioritise other identities they have).

Some portion of (3) avidly reject (or even work to undermine) all trappings of (especially cultural and/or national) identity entirely...and somewhat unwittingly drive group 1's force potentials.

Some folks (maybe even most) even straddle across all these in varying degrees/aspects since there are lot of segments to each part (I consider myself as one of these, but its complicated of course).

Religions are no different and represent some of the oldest (especially continuous) identities regarding it...exacerbated by religions having clashed in history.

The perceived flux, wax and wane of these groups of people within each identity (impacting on each other and other groups) is a long subject to get into.

When it manifests in political arena, it becomes "identity politics" in the basic sense. Flashpoints can be quite low in duration but high in intensity. ....or can be high in duration and low in intensity (and everything in between).

In India we have its particular unique form...with the large majority (itself a collection of groups) and many numbered minorities....all of them each looking (well group 1 of each that is) to strengthen their leverage and position for the long term (and not really giving enough pause for thought and rational peaceful deference)

Why does it all happen (almost inevitably)?

Why and how does a smaller group perceive and acts (via group 1) w.r.t a larger "Established" group on that is what we see in various ways everywhere (as the smaller gets pushed into corners easier and gets both defensive and prone to exploratory outbursts as well)?

It is often complicated by smaller groups having developed organisational, institutional, economic and even political muscle...that they do not compromise on easily (because of these being perceived shields to protect their smaller numbers).

The bigger majority must be attuned to this as possible....India is still finding its way on this (lot of countries took centuries inevitably with lot of sad reversals on progress made).

I for one know a fellow in california that worked for NASA/JPL in his younger life....now long retired and has become extreme conservative + dogmatic on some very silly things (against science + logic).

The evangelical thing as it manifests there basically....he got into a big argument with me about the Earth being exactly as old as it says in the bible...and his support towards biblical creationism soon followed as well...and I eventually just side stepped that whole aspect of him altogether (in both our mental interests and friendship on other things).

This guy was a very high level NASA engineer (and he leans quite liberal on lot of other things is the funniest part haha). For example he has a very headstrong Vietnamese wife....a very fascinating woman by herself actually with a deep story.

Maybe later I will get into some other stories I have (there is one about a Mormon that had long convo with me on a train, where he basically tried to initiate a conversion, though I only understood what that all was much later as part of his "mission" heh).

But regarding the evangelising theocracy-driven approach....I can similarly give number of deep comments some quebecers have told me about what anglo-saxon churches tried to usurp/displace and the blowbacks given by that (be it 20 years ago, or 50 years ago or 100 years ago and more).

That too these are fellow Christians in the end! (Barely registering any theological separation in say the relative hindu/dharmic fold)

But its really too long a story to get into depth (maybe later again I will)...I simply want to bring to attention for now that the issue at hand is somewhat universal, and India has its particular versions and variants of it.

Overall Ceterus Paribus, With the abrahamic religions in general, there is a theological dogma of the finality of one life (in that you need to be saved in this life and only this one) that drives the proselytsying (and agitation) of their evangelicals, jesuit priests and so on (especially the conservative to radical types)...compared to the dharmic fold in general (where there is often a more default larger acceptance all human souls in all religions eventually reach the ultimate reality).

One can definitely run into it in a bad way....in any number of ways when you come across a theocrat or variant thereof.

The Tsunami 2004 episode was one you mention, I came across it another way regarding the Nepal Earthquake too....the "soul vulture" evangelical groups as I remarked to an elderly US conservative Christian friend (who had quite a chuckle about that term).

But in general I try look past these in-group vs out-group strife/tension as far as I can (as its a global thing in the end to human species)....I look for the best aspects/attributes of every group and treat those as the default when remembering them by).

My mind is somewhat frail and weary by these things if it kept count of all the negative stuff each group has given to me and those I know...keeping a running tally there (subject to bias and my own inherited privilege) sits wrong with me...so I put that (correctly I feel) as the tribal (mean, vindictive, angst ridden) human nature surfacing via the inherited identity.

For example (with the Indian Christians specifically) I deeply appreciate their contribution when there is deep recognition, synthesis and understanding of the older spiritual culture they have sojourned to....like that of G U Pope and his astonishing translation and commentary on the tiruvasagam.

The impact of Christian-run schools on my family as a whole also runs very deep....they have strong institutional strength and legacy there...and very well deserved one IMO (though this has become controversy and flashpoint as well in some spots in whichever way as well).

There are certain advantages to some aspects of realised human psyche and endeavour with a one-life finality/absolute that I also perceive (with the Christian religion especially given the contours of its particular absorption into Europe historically).

It is a long conversation with lot of give and take in the debate.....few really explore these nuances with a good intent and well rounded perspective and knowledge on it.

India was, is and will be no stranger to this stuff in its great matrix of reality and possibility (of the religion and identity spectrum)...and its great variance by region on top.

How to keep the extreme contained systematically as possible (especially the escalation chain I speak of regarding agitation + resentment) away from actionable power (over other human souls) is the trillions of dollars question and matter in the end.

India has a certain bulk and glue deep within it that aids it compared to say Europe (given the contexts of wealth and enlightenment IMO of the 20th century and the drastic failure Europe realised on it with all it had going for it)....

....but India is also so massive and diverse there are huge painful consequences by even a small % churn (normalised, sinusoidal or transient accelerative).

A wonderful corrective narrative, and very consoling. I find myself so deeply in sympathy with the views expressed. Both points of view, that of alarm expressed by @Rajaraja Chola, that of a somewhat disillusioned longer, broader view, accepting that there is cause for alarm, but not allowing those alarming impulses to commandeer our entire response, are consistent, and I am glad that they are points of view, standpoints that I can sympathise with.

This is a good conversation, revelatory in many ways, reassuring as well, in as many ways. Ultimately, I take my stand on my last paragraph above. Self-discipline, above all, and a calm mind to consider these disturbing matters.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I would like to invite @xenon5434 @Saithan and @merzifonlu to read the last few pages (at their leisure and interest) as I know they have interest and their own opinions on this subject (both at large and specifically to India).

Starting from HTurk original posted video is probably best for context:

Coffee House

Happy Independence Day to fellow Indian members

defencehub.live

Probably best to read all the way through (to this post) first to see all the responses,discussion context and convo addition + evolution etc....and then give any remarks on their thoughts if they have any.

Any comments, questions etc at any point are most welcome from all members.

Joe is an especially valuable resource on this matter if you can get him to share his stories/perspective...often from time long before one was born

It was delightful - and unexpected - to see the deep interest, and almost startling to realise that there was a considerable degree of familiarity with the subject on the part of those who were asking questions. I cannot think of anything more pleasant than this discussion widening further. I am very happy to take part, subject to two important things - first, I should know about what is asked, second, my sudden spells of weakness, that drive me to seek some rest for a few hours, may please be forgiven and understood.

 

[Joe Shearer]

This is a decision that is deep and amazingly rich in collateral benefits. Let us see the situation unfold one step at a time.

On another plane, in a mood of bitter sarcasm. He's Muslim; won't that matter in eastern UP?

 

[Merzifonlu]

You guys, hi.

What do you think of Modi (and RSS)? Why did they come to power and when and under what conditions would they lose power?