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Nilgiri

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Dear Thumbi believes it or not the voting right is the only right that gives some power to the common Indians and creates a kind of fear in the Indian polity class.
Now people start understanding the value of votes and democracy, at least some of them has started voting beyond caste,creed , region and religious lines

There need to be far more attention given to:

1) law and order
2) institutions (especially for common pluralistic benefit)
3) Individual rights...but needs 1 + 2 to happen first

...for this democratic right/expression to really deliver its potential. But look at how all 3 are abused by all political parties instead.

i.e no one seems too interested in developing and entrenching these...and most of electorate is stuck judging on other irrelevant qualities or lack thereof...and politicians rather make pact between thieves on this stuff in their own cushy time.

This country (like other countries in general) will grow and develop largely in spite of ruling class and politicians (however fast or slow that ends up being)...rather than because of them. The very fitting opposite of what politicians portray.

We (the people) have finally been allowed more freedoms (at least there in this economic realm) than during the cold war era on this....but we need lot more (for next phases, or we simply will be too long stuck in this one at mounting cost) and for govt to recede and focus far more on only what govt is about (they seem all too keen to not do so having gotten used to the void left by previous large-occupants in the political realm).

I will feel lot more confident in pace of development (and take more interest in political side) if even just 1 of these 3 is done (say law and order and strict fair and neutral approach on it on all-citizens the same basis)...but it is not being done. So my interest is not too great, as there is less in the "box" that is defined there....rather I look for organised information and interest elsewhere in the country.
 

crixus

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Not a fan of Mamta. But boy, was PK right.
That's true his prediction was spot on, the only thing is she made an opponent out of Shuvendhu, she might have won Bengal but lost her own election.
Like Rahul Gandhi's Piddi story made Hemanta Biswa Sarma, Mamata's Nandi gram defeat made him a leader of her stature
 

crixus

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Propaganda machine switched on after Akhlaq was killed. Propaganda machine switched off after bloodbath in Bengal

Propaganda machine switched on after Akhlaq was killed. Propaganda machine switched off after bloodbath in Bengal​


ByManisha Inamdar
May 5, 2021

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Manisha Inamdar





Narratives prevail, facts do not. Propaganda spreads, truth doesn’t.
Direct Action Day is being repeated in West Bengal, wherein Hindus, irrespective of supporting any party ideology, were attacked and butchered. Their women were gang raped and their properties were destroyed in a revenge for not voting for TMC. Genocide of Hindus and their exodus in 2121, which is reminding genocide of Hindus in Kashmir in 1990, is fact and truth.

Back in 2015, one random killing of 52 years old Mohammad Akhlaq for stealing and slaughtering a calf—which was blown into campaign of “India is an intolerant country” and “secularism is in danger” from national daily to international platform—was a successful propaganda and narrative, which reached to the last man. Would the truth of bloodbath in West Bengal shake the national conscience the way propaganda of “India is intolerant” brought shame to India?
All India Trinamool Congress (popularly known as TMC) massively won Assembly Election 2121, nevertheless its goons took revenge from those who voted for BJP. Revenge created a frightening picture of blood, gore, death and destruction. The most barbaric visuals, which was deeply distressing, was of gang rape of BJP female workers. The whole nation was outraged, when disturbing pictures went viral. One would wonder why victorious TMC would create such bloodbath, when they should enjoy the power. But, TMC had to teach a lesson to those who dared to exercise its democratic rights to vote for BJP in the Assembly Election, to those voters particularly, Hindus, who were able to vote under heavy security. But, the moment the result was out, TMC goons went on rampage to target Hindus.
1E404F8F-D900-4908-ACA4-565702251C69.jpeg

After rape, murder, bloodbath in Bengal, did any intellectual Bengali express his disgust, “this is not the Bengal I grew up? Did any intellectual return his award to protest against the killing of Hindus? Did any newspaper in Bengal cry, “democracy is in danger?” Did people of Bengal call “Mamata Banerjee a dictator or fascist”, although she is a ruthless one? Was Bengal called an intolerant state for Hindus, even if Hindus have no country to live?
The answer is NO. No intellectual is ashamed of being Bengali today, no award was returned, no one cried, “democracy is in danger” neither Mamata Banerjee was called dictator or fascist, nor Bengal was termed as an intolerant state for Hindus. But, why did a random killing of Mohammad Akhlaq in Uttar Pradesh UP in 2015 provoked the entire intelligentsia to run a campaign against the state of India as if all the institutions failed in the country?
The intelligentsia—who had been enjoying perks and favours from the previous government—are eco system under the cover of custodians of democracy, secularism and freedom of speech. It was a mutual benefit for both parties. For example, journalists used to be an integral part of previous Prime Minister’s foreign visits. They had powers to the extent of deciding portfolios in allocation of ministries. Then, there were actors and other intellectuals, who were part of the network with benefit. When the current government took office, it disassociated with such networks, and also disconnected the umbilical cord of mutual benefit. The action turned the network of intelligentsia against the present government.
When Mohammad Akhlaq was killed for stealing and killing a calf in UP in 2015, it came as a golden opportunity for the intelligentsia, who set the propaganda machine into motion creating narratives after narratives. They amplified every element in the killing of Akhlaq. They painted entire Muslim community as victims. They whitewashed Muslim community’s atrocities of thousand years. At the same time, they didn’t write about Hindu genocide in Kashmir. Thereafter, narratives from propaganda machines flew thick and high in the sky; India is intolerant towards minorities, secularism is in the danger zone in India, freedom of expression does not exist in the state etc.
But, the same propaganda machine is switched off and the eco system is enjoying the ghastly visuals in Bengal, in which hundreds of Hindus, particularly BJP grass root workers were forced to leave, more than a dozen of BJP workers were killed, female workers were gang raped and their properties were destroyed. Hence, democracy is safe and sound, secularism is robust. Mamta Banerjee is a warrior Chief Minister, and Bengal is a peaceful and prosperous state.
Those who control the media, control people’s minds. Media persons, intelligentsia, actors, self-proclaimed seculars and liberals build a network and ecosystem. MainStream Media and Social Media, the propaganda tools to create narratives, were driven day and night by the network and eco system to fly anti-establishment narrative thick and high, when Akhlaq was killed. Hence, Akhlaq’s kins were hugely compensated, Hindus were defamed. Bloodbath and exodus of Hindus in Bengal do not suit the narrative of the ecosystem, hence no narrative was built. Forget about compensation, Muslim perpetrators of TMC would not even be punished.
Unfortunately, narratives prevail, facts do not. Propaganda spreads, truth doesn’t. Bloodbath of Hindus didn’t prevail, as the narrative was not set.

 

Jackdaws

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Looks like another blow to the credibility of the Modi regime

First Twitter marked a tweet by multiple BJP leaders as "Manipulated Media"



Then just like the Trump administration, the Modi regime is trying to bully Twitter

 

Nilgiri

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Twitter has next to no credibility to begin with as a non-biased institution.

Are they elected and accountable to anything?
 

Jackdaws

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Twitter has next to no credibility to begin with as a non-biased institution.

Are they elected and accountable to anything?
Firstly, it is not an institution. Secondly, if Twitter thru its own resources finds out that it is enabling false news / info which itself is liable for libel / defamation suits, then Twitter is well within its rights to protect itself by marking such tweets as such.
 

Raptor

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Firstly, it is not an institution. Secondly, if Twitter thru its own resources finds out that it is enabling false news / info which itself is liable for libel / defamation suits, then Twitter is well within its rights to protect itself by marking such tweets as such.
There are many such fake news spreaders and Twitter never marks them as manipulated media.
Clearly a bias.
 

Nilgiri

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Firstly, it is not an institution. Secondly, if Twitter thru its own resources finds out that it is enabling false news / info which itself is liable for libel / defamation suits, then Twitter is well within its rights to protect itself by marking such tweets as such.

I am saying it should not act like it is one if it is not (an actual legal institution)...if it wants credibility on what it actually is (a platform).

Whenever and wherever Twitter has been brought to court on libel/slander/defamation (regarding members that use it, yes including blue check marks), it has argued on the premise it is a platform.

i.e twitter (when own neck potentially exposed) itself says such matters in court should be resolved by the parties involved on pitching and receiving the libel....and that twitter is not responsible for it.

So twitter really cannot do that and expect to be taken credibly when it intervenes anyway in political dispute instances (in arenas well past tort-crime which they are bounded by law).

i.e let the accuser and defendant (if the matter is of great import) resolve it in the actual legal institutions they have at hand....regarding what is fake, real, grey and carries libel in it.

i.e it (Twitter) is hypocritical on this. The senate testimony given by Dorsey on the inner workings of twitter speak even more on this, on the systematic bias in operation (he was literally unable to give a straight answer on it).

This non-credible and biased intervention has squelched the free speech one would expect on a platform in many instances.

There is a reason why google-twitter-facebook-youtube are known as big tech oligarchs with biased gatekeeping that is eroding their credibility on what they themselves assert they are.

It has affected not only the (more visible) right-wing/conservative voices and politicians....but also centre and left (that again are deemed to go against the "acceptable" narrative within nebulous overton window that such oligarchs keep lock step in consort with their political backers and sponsors).

It is quickly approaching the point where they will be prosecuted as publishers (rather than platforms) by the growing counter-culture movement to big tech oligarchy.

All political actors (whichever facemask of aggresor/victim they have picked) very quickly see the precedent (of twitter intervention where a platform shouldnt in first place) set now and have grown accustomed to try use that heft for their own political purpose:

The Congress on Thursday also wrote to Twitter asking it to permanently suspend the accounts of BJP leaders J.P. Nadda and Union minister Smriti Irani for “spreading misinformation and unrest in the society”. A day earlier, the party had lodged a police complaint seeking registration of cases against Nadda and Irani, in addition to BJP general secretary B.L. Santosh and spokesperson Sambit Patra over the alleged forgery of documents.
 

Nilgiri

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Guys, I have merged the modi-analysis thread and congress toolkit thread into the earlier large thread for India politics/news.

It is defence oriented forum at large (so I think its best to let individual threads + merge later be relevant only for defence related topics), so lets keep all this stuff in here.

I will pin the thread for convenience.

Also this way interested members can read the previous topics/replies/perspectives members have.....more easily in broad spectrum context regarding politicians, leaders, political parties of India.
 

Nilgiri

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I am saying it should not act like it is one if it is not (an actual legal institution)...if it wants credibility on what it actually is (a platform).

Whenever and wherever Twitter has been brought to court on libel/slander/defamation (regarding members that use it, yes including blue check marks), it has argued on the premise it is a platform.

i.e twitter (when own neck potentially exposed) itself says such matters in court should be resolved by the parties involved on pitching and receiving the libel....and that twitter is not responsible for it.

So twitter really cannot do that and expect to be taken credibly when it intervenes anyway in political dispute instances (in arenas well past tort-crime which they are bounded by law).

i.e let the accuser and defendant (if the matter is of great import) resolve it in the actual legal institutions they have at hand....regarding what is fake, real, grey and carries libel in it.

i.e it (Twitter) is hypocritical on this. The senate testimony given by Dorsey on the inner workings of twitter speak even more on this, on the systematic bias in operation (he was literally unable to give a straight answer on it).

This non-credible and biased intervention has squelched the free speech one would expect on a platform in many instances.

There is a reason why google-twitter-facebook-youtube are known as big tech oligarchs with biased gatekeeping that is eroding their credibility on what they themselves assert they are.

It has affected not only the (more visible) right-wing/conservative voices and politicians....but also centre and left (that again are deemed to go against the "acceptable" narrative within nebulous overton window that such oligarchs keep lock step in consort with their political backers and sponsors).

It is quickly approaching the point where they will be prosecuted as publishers (rather than platforms) by the growing counter-culture movement to big tech oligarchy.

All political actors (whichever facemask of aggresor/victim they have picked) very quickly see the precedent (of twitter intervention where a platform shouldnt in first place) set now and have grown accustomed to try use that heft for their own political purpose:

The Congress on Thursday also wrote to Twitter asking it to permanently suspend the accounts of BJP leaders J.P. Nadda and Union minister Smriti Irani for “spreading misinformation and unrest in the society”. A day earlier, the party had lodged a police complaint seeking registration of cases against Nadda and Irani, in addition to BJP general secretary B.L. Santosh and spokesperson Sambit Patra over the alleged forgery of documents.

 

Jackdaws

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Parallels are often drawn between Palestine and Kashmir. For years, there have been arguments that Indian Kashmir is an “occupied territory”, much like Palestine. Both Kashmir and Palestine are viewed by many as territories fighting for the “right to self-determination”.

One significant contradiction, however, is that Kashmiris have always shown solidarity and support for Palestinians and their cause, while the latter has not reciprocated the same. What could be the reason for this one-sided affection, if one may call it.

Kashmir’s Support For Palestine


India’s Kashmir Valley has a long history of showing support for Palestinians. A key reason for this being the Al Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem, the world’s third holiest site in Islam.

The most intense anti-Israel protest that occurred hitherto was in Srinagar when Israel annexed East Jerusalem in June 1967. Churches were reportedly set on fire, even some foreign tourists were attacked. In Srinagar, a curfew was imposed for more than 160 hours and large protests were held at major mosques and other historically significant places.

Students have been at the forefront of such protests. Islamic Students League (ISL), a dissenting group formed in the 1980s, took out protest marches in support of Palestine on many occasions.

Similar protests happened during the 2014 Gaza crisis when Palestinian flags flew over vehicles, poles, and shops in Kashmir to show their solidarity. In the same breath, they protested against the Indian state.

In 2018, hundreds of Kashmiris held rallies in a show of solidarity with the 62 Palestinians killed in Gaza. Even now, common Kashmiris took to the streets protesting against the Israeli aggression in Gaza.

Jammu & Kashmir police sent a clear message that pro-Palestine protests will not be tolerated in the Valley and arrested 22 people, mostly youth, in the last few days.

Kashmir Vs Palestine

The genesis and the nature of the Kashmir and Palestine problems are quite different. The creation of the Israel state is based on The Zionist movement, a religious and political movement that brought thousands of Jews from all over the world back to their “ancient homeland” in the Middle East and they rebuilt Israel as the center of Jewish identity.

Palestine, which was a part of the Ottoman Empire, was dissolved by the Allied Powers after World War I. The League of Nations in 1922 handed the United Kingdom mandatory power over Palestine on the condition that Britain should assist in the formation of a national homeland for the Jews in Palestine, who had suffered a long history of anti-Semitism in Europe.

By 1947, on the eve of the United Nations’ decision to partition Palestine between Jews and Palestinian Arabs, there were around 1.35 million Palestinian Arabs and around 650,000 Jews living in the mandated area of Palestine.

Notwithstanding it, the United Nations General Assembly decided to grant the Jews about 56 percent of Palestine’s land for a Jewish state.

Palestinians and their neighboring Arab states refused to recognize the UN partition resolution. They went to battle with the emerging state of Israel and were defeated.

Israel controlled more than two-thirds of the old British-mandated territory by the end of the war in July 1949, while Jordan acquired control of the West Bank, Egypt, and the Gaza Strip.

However, Israel took control of the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, the Sinai Peninsula, and the Golan Heights in 1967 following a series of wars.

Kashmir — Caught Between India & Pakistan

The Kashmir dispute, on the other hand, dates back to 1947 when India and Pakistan gained independence from British colonialism. This independence resulted in the emergence and continuation of the Indian-Pakistani conflict over Kashmir.

Before independence, Kashmir was a distinct state with a Muslim majority but it was ruled by Hari Singh, a Hindu ruler. As a result, Pakistan dispatched tribal raiders to annex Kashmir in 1947. In response, Kashmir’s monarch requested Delhi for military assistance and protection and was conditioned to be assisted if Kashmir’s king signed the instrument of accession.

After the instrument was signed and the ruler of Delhi sent Indian forces to Kashmir, the first war between India and Pakistan erupted. As a result, in 1948, the United Nations Security Council Resolution 47 specified that Pakistan must remove all of its soldiers from Kashmir, while India must do the same while maintaining some forces on the border to protect Indian territory.

The people of Kashmir would then have complete autonomy in deciding whether they want to be a part of India, Pakistan, or an independent state. However, forces did not withdraw, a referendum did not take place, and a line of ceasefire was established, dividing Kashmir into two parts, one under Indian control and the other under Pakistan.

As a result, war over Kashmir continued with major clashes taking place for years subsequently.

Diverse Religio-Cultural Factors

Among things to understand, the creation of Israel displaced millions of Palestinians. The Arabs saw the establishment of Israel as an extension of imperialism and colonialism, as it brought the European Jewish problem to the Middle East.

The Israeli state had to fight a war with its neighbor for its right to exist. Although Israeli control of the West Bank and Gaza has provided it with defensive control and resources in the event of an Arab attack, it has also brought a large population of Palestinians under Israeli authority.

Palestinians were neither consulted nor given any choice in the creation of the state of Israel. Their occupation is rather forceful, however, the same cannot be said for Kashmir.

Kashmir was legitimately merged on a legal basis through the instrument of accession and became an equal member of the Indian Federal Union.

Unlike Israel, which was based on the sectarian ideology of Zionism, which favored Jews and Judaism over other Middle Eastern religions and cultures, India was not formed on such restrictive philosophy.

Unlike Israel, which publicly protects the rights of Jews over all others, India has never claimed religious exclusivity for its Hindu majority.

On the other hand, India had granted Jammu and Kashmir Articles 370 and 35A (in 1949 and 1954, respectively) in order to protect the autonomy given to them at their accession. These constitutional provisions were withdrawn almost 70 later and the state was bifurcated into two federally controlled Union Territories.

Justifying the move, Prime Minister Narendra Modi had then termed these two special provisions as an impediment to the development of J&K and Ladakh.

“This act of the government will usher in a new dawn in the region and help in the development of the youth there,” he had said.

The controversial revocation of J&K’s special status was aimed at improving tourism, reforming education and health policies, uplifting tribal populations, developing local self-governing organizations, and curbing militancy.

Israel’s occupation of Palestine is driven by the idea of ensuring the security of the former, whereas India justified its action saying it would foster national integrity.

Palestine Not Supporting Kashmir

India has historically been supportive of the Palestinian cause. The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was recognized as the legitimate representative of Palestinians by New Delhi, the first non-Arab government to do so.

In 1975, the PLO opened an office in New Delhi, and full diplomatic relations were established in March 1980. Subsequently, India recognized Palestine as a state on November 18, 1988.

India has undertaken an effort to build relations with Muslim countries since its independence. The formation of Pakistan in 1947 had especially driven India’s support for the Palestinian.

With Nehruvian idealism and the Non-Alignment Movement emerging in post- Independence years, India sought to find its ideological footing and cultivate the goodwill and assistance of the several Arab nations of West Asia. India’s proximity to the Soviet bloc also contributed to its support for Palestine back then.

Over the years, Indian and Palestinian leaders have exchanged visits on a regular basis. India has provided material and technical assistance to the Palestinian people in addition to its strong political support for the Palestinian cause at the international and bilateral levels. Palestine has also received financial assistance from India.

Under Prime Minister Modi, India’s relations with Arab countries have improved significantly even though he seems to be following what is called a ‘de-hyphenation policy’ on the Israel-Palestine issue.

In February 2018, Narendra Modi became the first Indian Prime Minister to make an official visit to Palestine. He was conferred upon the ‘Grand Collar of the State of Palestine’, the highest civilian award of the land.

Even in the ongoing Israel-Palestine conflict, India has not supported Israel and instead advocated a two-state solution. India has adopted a balancing out policy towards Israel and Palestine for long. Though India has emphasized that its Israel policy is not hyphenated to Palestine’s but New Delhi has tried to maintain a balance in diplomatic ties.

India’s envoy to the UN has urged both sides to show “extreme restraint, desist from actions that exacerbate tensions”, and refrain from trying to change the existing status quo, including in East Jerusalem and its neighborhood.

“Jerusalem has a special place in the hearts of millions of Indians, who visit the city every year,” the envoy said. “The Old City also houses the Al Zawiyya Al Hindiyya – the Indian Hospice, which is a historic place associated with a great Indian Sufi saint Baba Farid and located inside the Old City.

Tirumurti, the Indian envoy recently said that India believes every effort should be made to create conducive conditions for the resumption of talks between Israel and Palestine.

“In conclusion, I reiterate India’s strong support to the just Palestinian cause and its unwavering commitment to the two-state solution.”

After the abrogation of Article 370 from Jammu and Kashmir in 2019, the reaction of the Arab world, including Palestine, was not harsh and critical. This was in stark contrast to Pakistan’s constant accusation that there had been widespread human rights violations after New Delhi had withdrawn the special status to Jammu and Kashmir.

Turkey has also joined this chorus and leveled similar allegations against India.

India is today a significant trading partner with countries in the Middle East, which do not see Kashmir as a stumbling block. For several decades, India’s pro-Palestinian stance has gained traction among Muslim countries.

Despite having outstanding relations with Israel, India’s ties with the Middle Eastern countries including Palestine have intensified dramatically. Given these circumstances, Palestinian support for Kashmir is quite unlikely.


 

Nilgiri

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On raw pan-islamic and/or pan-islamist basis,

Kashmiri Muslims:

make up of India's total muslim population ( ~ 10 out of 200 million).

i.e there is 95% narrative external to Kashmir entirely w.r.t muslims in India in the first place....especially what do rest of muslims in India think/feel about Kashmir within secular framework of Indian constitution.


Israeli arabs (who often identify as palestinian as well, but have Israeli citizenship and participate in the Israeli state and politics and day to day affairs) make up 20% of Israel's population (about 1.8 million out of 9 million)

Palestinians (living in West Bank and Gaza) number around 4.7 million.

These (disparate) numbers set the raw contours and inertia in the relationships across borders that media/commentary often overlooks and treats everything as 1:1.

The separatists among Kashmiri muslims also do not speak for their entirety (as article in couple spots seem to insinuate on 1:1 basis with Palestine cause).....certainly not anywhere close to the more unified basis palestinians seem to have.
 

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