Historical Combat, War, Geopolitics History and Analysis

[Nilgiri]

@Nein2.0(Nomad) , probably the largest exception (given scale of what mongols did to kievan rus) to what i was talking about just now:

 

[Ryder]

A Tribute German East Africa during WW1.

African front of ww1 is overlooked and underrated.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Honestly I know the conquistadores are not a pleasant bunch.

Still if I had to choose which time period I would love to be in is being a conquistador in the new world.

I cannot imagine what kind of experience you will go through when you meet a different civilisation. It would be as if the world has changed.

Difficult to justify that horrifying bunch, merely on account of their having had unusual experiences for their time and place. They were really among the extreme points of depravity that the human race has reached, along with various Central Asian specialists in building mountains of skulls.

 

[Ryder]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1434718598111510528

This also includes Ataturk too.

 

[Nilgiri]

Just would like to say this is aptly picked name. (i.e A. T Mahan)

His works form a number of volumes in my largest bookcase.

A good friend of mine (untimely passed away last year... RIP) was his biggest fan. I always remember him when I see the name Mahan....I maybe acquired 20% of his extensive naval historical knowledge...and I will be lucky to get to one third.

A good listen for summary on AT Mahan.

 

[Ryder]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1435577530010963972

Lmaooo good old Colonial Arrogance

 

[Ryder]

Italian irrendentism or Greater Italy played a role in Mussolinis foreign policy.

Mussolini did not just want greater Italy but also wanted lands that used to be under Roman Rule.

Whats interesting is how Italian nationalists believe Corsica, Dalmatia, Malta, Istria and Monaco all belong to Italy due to historical ties and Italian peoples living there.

Honestly even Italian irrendentism influenced Italy going into ww1 because Italy especially wanted lands under Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian rule.

Not just the Greeks who claim Istanbul but even the Italians. Italians believed they were the true heirs to the Roman Empire.

Well Italy underestimated their allies and overestimated itself. It did not get the lands it wanted and basically won WW1 empty handed.

In the Turkish independance war the Italians wanted to get a piece of Anatolia especially Izmir but Izmir was handed over to the Greeks this empty hands sure did piss off a lot of Italians who believed the Allies like the UK, France and the USA betrayed them and failed to keep their promises. Italians left Anatolia they also shipped weapons to the Turkish national movement that was fighting the Greeks.

 

[Nilgiri]

Since its going OT I feel, I brought this here for further discussion if interested:

The Pakistani Army’s special forces were raised as the Special Service Group (SSG) in 1956 using the cadre of 19 (Para) Baloch. This special force was trained in sobotage and disruptive activities behind enemy lines.

On the night of 6th September, around 200 officers and men of the SSG were air-dropped by C-130s near the Indian airbases of Adampur, Pathankot and Halwara on a bold mission to destroy Indian combat aircraft and put the bases out of action. They would then ex-filtrate back to Pakistan, following the numerous rivulets and streams that flow from Punjab back to their home territory.


Pathankot

It was wee hours of the morning when para-troopers landed at Pathankot. The pitch darkness and difficult terrain (it was criss-crossed by canals, streams and the fields were full of water) prevented them from regrouping. Most of them, including their Commander, Major Khalid Butt were arrested by the Police and the Army within the next 2 days.

Adampur


SSG wows the Pakistani public with their marching.



SSG is marched off by the unimpressed Indian public in 1965

View attachment 31273


This group too faced the same fate as the Pathankot team - unable to assemble, they tried to hide in the cornfields during the day. However, the farmers formed mobs and captured them, and some were even killed by the Punjabis. Their Commander, Capt Durrani was also taken POW.


Halwara

Some of the men landed within the airfield perimeter itself and were soon rounded up. However the detachment commander, Major Hazur Hasnain, and one of his men managed to get away in a captured Jeep.


It is clear that troops possesed little knowledge of the terrain and were dropped in too large a number to be effective. The final analysis revealed that more than 180 commandos were dropped out of which 136 were taken prisoners, 22 were killed in encounters with the army, police or the civilians and 22-15 managed to escape to Pakistan. Considering the fact that Pathankot is barely 10 miles from the IB, this number is'nt too much of an achievement.

@Lonewolf @kumata @Nilgiri @crixus

Generally have to go big like Tangail or go home.

Large lessons were learned (by defending team as well) during WW2 when SAS successfully raided major Luftwaffe air base:

Raid on Sidi Haneish Airfield - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So replicating it after OG becomes fraught with difficulties given lessons learnt and actions taken by militaries going forward during war time.

This following recount and analysis gives a larger idea of the duration, intensity (so you can actually learn and adapt to get results) and resources needed by a side to make this kind of thing work in post-WW2 era:

@Kartal1 @Zapper @Nein2.0(Nomad) @Test7 et al.

Thank you to @Paro for bringing my attention to the vid elsewhere.


BTW, Watching this stuff adds lot of credence to Rambo's backstory "north of the border".
Don't push it....don't push it or I will give you a war you won't believe!

 

[Kartal1]

 

[Ryder]

@Ghost soldier @Knowledgeseeker

You guys will enjoy this.

 

[Nilgiri]

Rare archival footage of RAF bomber mission procedures in WW2 (filmed mostly by Air Cmde on base location there)...
It includes quite some detail, well worth a watch.

 

[Nilgiri]

Edward Shames, last ‘Band of Brothers’ veteran, dies at 99...RIP.

@VCheng

Edward Shames, last of the surviving WWII officers who inspired HBO's 'Band of Brothers,' dies at 99

Shames, who took part in D-Day and the Battle of the Bulge, was in Easy Company, the unit that inspired the 'Band of Brothers' book and miniseries.

www.usatoday.com

 

[VCheng]

Edward Shames, last ‘Band of Brothers’ veteran, dies at 99...RIP.

@VCheng

Edward Shames, last of the surviving WWII officers who inspired HBO's 'Band of Brothers,' dies at 99

Shames, who took part in D-Day and the Battle of the Bulge, was in Easy Company, the unit that inspired the 'Band of Brothers' book and miniseries.

www.usatoday.com

As the line in the song goes, "wheel in the sky keeps on turning!"

The inevitable passing of generations slowly changes society., whether we realize it or not.

 

[Nilgiri]

As the line in the song goes, "wheel in the sky keeps on turning!"

The inevitable passing of generations slowly changes society., whether we realize it or not.

Bud and I earlier had a chat about Bob Dole (who also recently passed as I am sure you saw).

He told me Senator Dole helped in making known the larger heroism and sacrifice of the 5th Army in Northern Italy....operations in the last part of WW2 that are often forgotten and overlooked.

Dole penned a forward to The War North of Rome, describing the Fifth Army’s war after Rome fell:

The War North Of Rome: June 1944- May 1945: Brooks, Thomas R.: 9780306812569: Amazon.com: Books

The War North Of Rome: June 1944- May 1945 [Brooks, Thomas R.] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The War North Of Rome: June 1944- May 1945

www.amazon.com

I will be acquiring and reading that book later.

He was also known to visit the site of his grievous wounding (assumed fatal by the medic who gave him "one last shot" morphine):

Bob Dole returns to visit the battlefields where he fought and was severely wounded in 1945

Museums, trails and fortifications of the Gothic Line on the Modena Apennines in the municipality of Montese

www.lineagoticamontese.eu

 

[VCheng]

Bud and I earlier had a chat about Bob Dole (who also recently passed as I am sure you saw).

He told me Senator Dole helped in making known the larger heroism and sacrifice of the 5th Army in Northern Italy....operations in the last part of WW2 that are often forgotten and overlooked.

Dole penned a forward to The War North of Rome, describing the Fifth Army’s war after Rome fell:

The War North Of Rome: June 1944- May 1945: Brooks, Thomas R.: 9780306812569: Amazon.com: Books

The War North Of Rome: June 1944- May 1945 [Brooks, Thomas R.] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The War North Of Rome: June 1944- May 1945

www.amazon.com

I will be acquiring and reading that book later.

He was also known to visit the site of his grievous wounding (assumed fatal by the medic who gave him "one last shot" morphine):

Bob Dole returns to visit the battlefields where he fought and was severely wounded in 1945

Museums, trails and fortifications of the Gothic Line on the Modena Apennines in the municipality of Montese

www.lineagoticamontese.eu

As somebody once quipped, never think too much of yourself, because one day the very last person to be even aware that you ever existed will also die.

 

[Nilgiri]

Edward Shames, last ‘Band of Brothers’ veteran, dies at 99...RIP.

@VCheng

Edward Shames, last of the surviving WWII officers who inspired HBO's 'Band of Brothers,' dies at 99

Shames, who took part in D-Day and the Battle of the Bulge, was in Easy Company, the unit that inspired the 'Band of Brothers' book and miniseries.

www.usatoday.com

Analysis of one of the actions seen by Easy Company (that Mr. Shames was part of) during Market Garden:

 

[Nilgiri]

There is growing rasputitsa in lot of places

There is a massive growing pow camp north of kiev that russians have to upkeep (ukrainians need not spend a dime)...

There is now more for (logistically inclined) folks to read on this kind of thing:


Over here (read the full twitter thread), as to why there is this self-imposed POW camp feature in Russian military logistic chains:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500213943012319252

LOGISTICS LOGISTICS LOGISTICS!!!!!

@Joe Shearer @Vergennes @xenon5434 @Fuzuli NL @MisterLike @Paro @Saithan @AlphaMike @Lordimperator et al.

The more things change, the more they remain the same......mud gridlock and all.

Here was deeper historical delve (in same context) of a respected friend in another gathering (TIFWIW) that you folks may find useful context:



Why could the Soviets conduct the offensives of 1944 and 1945 like they did? American and British support via Lend-Lease. In particular massive numbers of American trucks.

Without those trucks the Red Army would have still made progress but at a much, much slower pace. Their offensives would have outrun their supplies much more quickly than they actually did. Would they still have killed massive numbers of Germans? Yes. Would they have been much further east in May 1945 than they actually were? Yes.

People don't realise just what a logistical miracle the UK and US pulled off. Six separate major campaigns in six different areas of the world. At the same time. North West Europe. Mediterranean. Battle of the Atlantic. Burma. South West Pacific. Central Pacific.

On top of that was the significant Lend Lease support being given to both China and the Soviet Union.

Today we see the sorts of logistical ability from Russia that the Soviets would have had without Lend Lease support.

What this also shows is just why the Falklands War in 1982 gave the Soviets such a fright. Consider what the UK did on the hoof within 3 months at the end of a 10,000 mile supply chain with essentially only one intermediate base. Then think what it could do in Europe right at its home base along with other powers of comparable size (France and West Germany) and with the US to back things up.

Consider also how it reinforces the logistical prowess displayed with the Gulf War in 1991. 700,000 US troops. 50,000 UK troops. 25,000 French troops. All deployed from nothing inside five months. Not just light infantry like in the Falklands but heavy, mechanised forces.

Now we have an incompetent, badly led force with appalling logistics (they can't even operate in scale within 150 miles of their own frontier without supply issues of serious magnitude) against a motivated, patriotic defender that is getting rapidly supplied with plenty of modern firepower suitable for defence.

This is costing the Ukrainians terribly in blood and damage to infrastructure. It is costing the Russians much more.

 

[meghdut]

A very high risk amphibious assault by one of the most celebrated albeit flawed military leaders of WW2. However it worked and can be considered as one of the riskiest as well as most rewarding military success.

 

[Nilgiri]

LOGISTICS LOGISTICS LOGISTICS!!!!!

@Joe Shearer @Vergennes @xenon5434 @Fuzuli NL @MisterLike @Paro @Saithan @AlphaMike @Lordimperator et al.

The more things change, the more they remain the same......mud gridlock and all.

Here was deeper historical delve (in same context) of a respected friend in another gathering (TIFWIW) that you folks may find useful context:



Why could the Soviets conduct the offensives of 1944 and 1945 like they did? American and British support via Lend-Lease. In particular massive numbers of American trucks.

Without those trucks the Red Army would have still made progress but at a much, much slower pace. Their offensives would have outrun their supplies much more quickly than they actually did. Would they still have killed massive numbers of Germans? Yes. Would they have been much further east in May 1945 than they actually were? Yes.

People don't realise just what a logistical miracle the UK and US pulled off. Six separate major campaigns in six different areas of the world. At the same time. North West Europe. Mediterranean. Battle of the Atlantic. Burma. South West Pacific. Central Pacific.

On top of that was the significant Lend Lease support being given to both China and the Soviet Union.

Today we see the sorts of logistical ability from Russia that the Soviets would have had without Lend Lease support.

What this also shows is just why the Falklands War in 1982 gave the Soviets such a fright. Consider what the UK did on the hoof within 3 months at the end of a 10,000 mile supply chain with essentially only one intermediate base. Then think what it could do in Europe right at its home base along with other powers of comparable size (France and West Germany) and with the US to back things up.

Consider also how it reinforces the logistical prowess displayed with the Gulf War in 1991. 700,000 US troops. 50,000 UK troops. 25,000 French troops. All deployed from nothing inside five months. Not just light infantry like in the Falklands but heavy, mechanised forces.

Now we have an incompetent, badly led force with appalling logistics (they can't even operate in scale within 150 miles of their own frontier without supply issues of serious magnitude) against a motivated, patriotic defender that is getting rapidly supplied with plenty of modern firepower suitable for defence.

This is costing the Ukrainians terribly in blood and damage to infrastructure. It is costing the Russians much more.

On further reading of the lend-lease corridor particulars for the (~ 50% of total chain) route : US ---> Vladivostok ----> Trans siberian railway etc, some matters of further interest surfaced.

The Soviets did the bulk of the sea shipping ....given the americans transferred large part of their western merchant marine to lease to soviets as the first block of the arrangement.

It seems the IJN was most reluctant to interdict Soviet flagged shipping (even in waters really close to Japan), for fear of breaking the non-aggression agreement with the soviets after khaklin gol et al.

This upset the Germans a great deal!...and soured the Axis relationship at this stage quite deeply apparently.

@Joe Shearer @Anmdt

 

[Joe Shearer]

On further reading of the lend-lease corridor particulars for the (~ 50% of total chain) route : US ---> Vladivostok ----> Trans siberian railway etc, some matters of further interest surfaced.

The Soviets did the bulk of the sea shipping ....given the americans transferred large part of their western merchant marine to lease to soviets as the first block of the arrangement.

It seems the IJN was most reluctant to interdict Soviet flagged shipping (even in waters really close to Japan), for fear of breaking the non-aggression agreement with the soviets after khaklin gol et al.

This upset the Germans a great deal!...and soured the Axis relationship at this stage quite deeply apparently.

@Joe Shearer @Anmdt

A very weird chapter, when Russia/USSR used her 'neutrality' towards Japan to flood war materiel in through Vladivostok. I wonder if Japan's hilarious attack on the Aleutians was a peevish response by some intransigent elements at Tokyo to send a signal to the Russians.