Historical Combat, War, Geopolitics History and Analysis

[Afif]

1-alright then since this is your position better not appeal to sharia because this isn't what sharia declares and mandates with regards to "economic freedoms", appeal to the western norms. in this case then this would turn into what i said previously on adopting western values, this is what the west wants from you, you're just giving it to them willingly x).

=> the moment you send your women out and normalize free mixing you surrendered their expected role (domestic one) to the state's institutions which are usually tied legally to international institutions and regulations which the west dominates, meaning your children aren't shaped by your and your wife's beliefs but by what the west thinks they should be, this is issue 1

=>issue 2 is when you send your women to work and mix you're creating an expectation from them through the motive you issued your male population for increased productivity, i'm talking about the psychological drive for career achievement and recognition from strangers for a job well done on the assembly line or the lab, this will crush you demographics, historically countries with large demographics are the ones that endup evolving into large powers, look at europe's population during the 19th century and compare it to that of africa or the middle east, these two areas were picked due to the proximity in geographics and technical level (with ofc the superiority of the west) to minimize other factors. its not THE main cause for it but its one of the necessary aspects.

So, I did my first major in Islamic theology. Not to brag about it, but to simply let you know this sensitive topic of Women's work life and economic activities falls within the area of my academic expertise.

I would only say that, I don't agree with your conclusions. But let's agree to disagree.

2-100% agreed they're puppets of world powers, but what you're proposing here is becoming a proactive puppet that follows the order without being told to, you'll be doing exactly what they want you to, in which way the stuff you're preaching here differ from what the west forces us to do and sanctions us if we dont ?

What i am proposing has nothing to do with becoming West's puppet or adapting contemporary western cultural. (That is your subjective interpretation)

And by the way, historically so called gulf theocracies were bigger puppets of the West then most Muslim countries.

3-you'd be surprised at the level of clarity the people had and the political movements (like the muslim brotherhood, especially pre sayyid qutb's execution) at their political realities, many of which were in mostly benevolent dictatorships like Algeria, they had every chance to adapt and every incentive to do so but the people will choose faith whenever given the chance, election results whenever fair elections were held always brought the islamist parties and the only reason hardliners didn't win is because they weren't allowed to participate from the first place after the algerian experience of 1991 when the jihadi party won by a plurality in the country's first elections, after over 160 years of secularism colonial and national.

Let's just say, I have different interpretations of 20th century political history of Middle East and Arab worlds then yours.

=>malaysia lacks the civilizational baggage our region has in order to pass, their modernization was done at the cost of completely disregarding the faith's political aspect, which isn't far off of what the west requires.

Not true.

 

[Chakib.Y]

So, I did my first major in Islamic theology. Not to brag about it, but to simply let you know this sensitive topic of Women's work life and economic activities falls within the area of my academic expertise.

I would only say that, I don't agree with your conclusions. But let's agree to disagree.



What i am proposing has nothing to do with becoming West's puppet or adapting contemporary western cultural. (That is your subjective interpretation)

And by the way, historically so called gulf theocracies were bigger puppets of the West then most Muslim countries.



Let's just say, I have different interpretations of 20th century political history of Middle East and Arab worlds then yours.



Not true.

1-i can assure you with complete certainty that your position is wrong in the 4 classic school of fiqh, and is wrong if we follow the daleel methodology (out of these schools usool). if you want proof i'd be more than happy to provide.

2-freemixing and sending out women to the public workforce instead of the expected role of them that's been the norm for centuries is verymuch the western contemporary cultural norm.

-fully aware of the gulf monarchies betrayals, the gulf war was the seed for bin laden's project and the mass prosecution of scholars all for their thrones interests in coop with their western friends, they're the same as the other "republican" regimes, they differ on the degree of secularization that's all. they're still west compliant.

3-well i'd be more than happy to hear it.

4-as far as i know they don't rule by sharia nor are they adopters of wala' and bara' in their foreign policies for starters, i suppose you know the significance of these from your studies.

 

[Afif]

@Ryder @Nilgiri @F-6 enthusiast @Gary
Usually, I would just leave it here and recommend to watch.
But on this one, I must insist.

Because tbh, I almost felt nostalgic for the Empire after watching this.

I have never been to West (or in particular, to Britain) So i never understood (on an individual level) how these civilized and highly educated lords and ladies who are smiling and shaking hands with others like very normal human beings of today, were responsible for so much discrimination and misconducts?
Sometimes, (rarely though) it even makes me question if the history we were taught was the right one.

Maybe, somebody lives in the West and knows the evolution of the Western culture in light of history could explain.



Also, it is mind boggling to think, 70 years ago just few people (Jinnah, Nehru, Gandhi, and Mountbatten) and their decisions brought so much consequences for (almost) one fourth of humanity in this subcontinent.

 

[Nilgiri]

Maybe, somebody lives in the West and knows the evolution of the Western culture in light of history could explain.

Well when you have a metropolis (in western world back then and today), you will find the official side of law and order (and the official politics the citizenry can elect to reward or try change the more faceless bureaucracy governing all of this).

But depending on the actual size and depth of the metropolis, this official side is unlikely to have permeated everywhere. Thus you have the room for crime syndicates and such to grow "unofficially" to dispense power and law and order needs within the turf they have been able to stake out (the needs of this dont go away when there is a void from the official side).

i.e some stability (within held territory) to such turf wars involving such syndicates in first place from that void.

Pacts evolve and are made between the official and unofficial side for their mutual desire or even objective of a status quo. The whole thing were a mayor becomes a lackey of say some mafia don etc. Then at some point this cannot persevere and some compact breaks and a revolution happens that might clean things out or reset them in some way.

Colonialism just had a whole different level of this kind of thing going on in what an official side could look like yet be in concert behind the scenes with unofficial darker side doing the dirty work.

Crime syndicates after all have not only the bosses (who might seem somewhat presentable and needed or even supported by some laypeople) but also capos, enforcers and henchmen.

i.e its not even a metropolis (fully contained within a western paradigm) anymore, but something far larger and diverse and far more raw differential power and ego (ultimately hubris) to dispense on the weaker (or to be made weaker) laypeople/serfs/slaves at hand.

Its why for example even after Dyer did what he did at jalianwalla bagh massacre (and anger this stirred even on the official british side, though he would not be punished and even given a huge pension to retire), there were enforcers and henchmen out after it to make Indians there crawl on the streets as a larger collective punishment.

The Crawling Order: A sign of imperial British atrocities - The Sunday Guardian Live

103 years after the infamous incident, we trace what the Crawling Order was, why it happened and the humiliation Indians had to face. The incident

sundayguardianlive.com

 

[Afif]

@Ryder @Gary @Nilgiri
Just dropping it here. (I mean, if you can spare some times from Putin-Wagner circus.)

 

[Afif]

@Nilgiri How accurate is this?

 

[Ryder]

@Ryder @Gary @Nilgiri
Just dropping it here. (I mean, if you can spare some times from Putin-Wagner circus.)

Whats interesting is how the Arabs and Persians outsourced their fighting to the Turkic/Turkish mercernaries.

This actually backfired as the Turks took control.

Arabs were too busy enjoying life forgetting their ancestors constantly struggled.

 

[Afif]

Whats interesting is how the Arabs and Persians outsourced their fighting to the Turkic/Turkish mercernaries.

This actually backfired as the Turks took control.

Arabs were too busy enjoying life forgetting their ancestors constantly struggled.

Bruh, no matter how much you bashed the lazy arabs of later ages, there no doubt early islamic expansion from Morocco to Indian subcontinent in such short period of time was unprecedented in history. (Although, it is true that they weren't fighting for any 'Arab cause'. They fought as Muslims. That is why Khalid bin Walid is your hero regardless of your ethnicity if you are a Muslim)

 

[Ryder]

Bruh, no matter how much you bashed the lazy arabs of later ages, there no doubt early islamic expansion from Morocco to Indian subcontinent in such short period of time was unprecedented in history. (Although, it is true that they weren't fighting for any 'Arab cause'. They fought as Muslims. That is why Khalid bin Walid is your hero regardless of your ethnicity if you are a Muslim)

The Early Arabs kicked ass.

Khalid Bin Walid is in my top 10.

 

[Gary]

Whats interesting is how the Arabs and Persians outsourced their fighting to the Turkic/Turkish mercernaries.

This actually backfired as the Turks took control.

Arabs were too busy enjoying life forgetting their ancestors constantly struggled.

Its part of the imperial cycle, whenever the early pioneers got rich they outsource the 'hard work' to the lower society caste. Overtime they gain power and influenece

if you look at Russia today, many of their commanders aren't even white Russian.

Rustam Muradov

Yunus Bek Yevkurov

etc

 

[Gary]

Its part of the imperial cycle, whenever the early pioneers got rich they outsource the 'hard work' to the lower society caste. Overtime they gain power and influenece

if you look at Russia today, many of their commanders aren't even white Russian.

Rustam Muradov

Yunus Bek Yevkurov

etc

and oh Sergey Shoygu, which is Tuvan

 

[Ryder]

and oh Sergey Shoygu, which is Tuvan

He also knows Turkish.

Whats surprising too when the Ottomans faced the Russians in WW1 they were pretty surprised to find out they were fighting not just Slavic Russians and Ukrainians but also Turkic peoples.

Ottoman soldiers also got sent to numerous prisoner of war camps in the Russian Empire.

When they were paraded the Muslim Turkic peoples actually felt sad while Armenians pelted them with rocks.

Some Tatars also helped Turkish soldiers escape.

There is a reason why Turkiye does not sanction or bar Russian peoples coming into Turkiye because Russia has lots of Muslim and Turkic peoples who live there.

Basically have religious and cultural ties there.

 

[Afif]

my favorite special force unit will be the Navy SEALS,

In general or team 6 specifically?
Cause, other teams are not even considered tier one.

 

[Gary]

In general or team 6 specifically?
Cause, other teams are not even considered tier one.

DEVGRU

 

[Afif]

DEVGRU

My fav is SAS and 1st SOFD-D.
When fighting a full scale conventional war behind enemy or in urbanised terrain, army guys are the best. (Given their experience with combined arms manoeuvre)

 

[Nilgiri]

@Nilgiri How accurate is this?

Indo-aryan and dravidian are just language groups, so he mixed that up with genetics at the start
(but then uses the proper terms like ASI, ANI etc when it comes to genetic admixture)
Overall the video is pretty good but summarized a lot.'

I liked the connection he made between the horse (who's modern species originates in central asia and thus one would expect native populations to embed the advantage of this animal in warfare both direct and with chariot technology) and open expanse of central asian region as a long term theme of expansion capability of human populations originating there.

The androvo steppe who most likely came to subcontinent are later cousins of the yamnaya he mention that pushed (earlier) west into Europe and thus the indo-european language family we have today....even though the genetic admixtures today are different (given the earlier neolithic legacy natives) among the larger expanses involved.

It is why there are lot of similarities between use of chariots among the celtics, greeks and others in Europe and also Iranic and Vedic people in the overall contemporary iron age period...along with many of the war god motifs and sacrifice details.

There was the sogdians and scythians he missed out as well. The latter was where Cyrus met his end, even though these folks were fellow indo-european and likely fairly closely related iranic (in both overall genetic and linguistic proximity).

The "xiongnu" (turco-mongol-manchu "altaic" etc and however these intermeshed and/or split later) had similar inheritance in the geography and so had the same propensity for expansion when they were able to harness it and there was sufficient fracturing at same time of the river civilizational areas.

Though their "eastern steppe" language family is markedly different to the earlier western steppe guys.

Western steppe is thought to also have produced the Huns/uralic people, linguistic legacy in Hungary and Finland/Estonia/Sami (along with original areas of Russia that still have small tribes preserved there iirc, just like with turkics and mongolics).

Again the genetic admixture is a more complicated contrast to linguistic.

Turkiye as well....its why Turkish people "overall" look different to central asian "Turkic"....sometimes very different...given anatolian populations before oghuz ingress. But the languages are proximate...oghuz, karluk (chagatai), kipchak branches etc.

 

[Afif]

Don't know if you guys watched it before, but for me it was interesting.
@Nilgiri @Ryder @Gary @F-6 enthusiast et al.


Edit- Question, why nobody recognizes anything?
Whatever happened in 1971, (Whether you consider it genocode or not) international community (including many prominent muslim countries like Turkey, KSA, Indonesia, Malaysia) are surprisingly silent about it compared to other atrocities of 20th century.

However, I should also add, there is not so much grievance in Bangladeshi society today about what happened 50 years ago, compared to others societies in different parts of the world who seriously hold on the memories of atrocities that were committed against them.

 

[Ryder]

Don't know if you guys watched it before, but for me it was interesting.
@Nilgiri @Ryder @Gary @F-6 enthusiast et al.


Edit- Question, why nobody recognizes anything?
Whatever happened in 1971, (Whether you consider it genocode or not) international community (including many prominent muslim countries like Turkey, KSA, Indonesia, Malaysia) are surprisingly silent about it compared to other atrocities of 20th century.

However, I should also add, there is not so much grievance in Bangladeshi society today about what happened 50 years ago, compared to others societies in different parts of the world who seriously hold on the memories of atrocities that were committed against them.

We cant recognise any atrocities due to Armenian genocide bs.

We only talk about atrocities against other countries when they start talking about the armenian issue we remind them to look at the skeletons in their own backyard.

Also Pakistan does not recognise the Armenian genocide so we dont recognise their atrocities.

You scratch my back I scratch yours.

 

[Gary]

Don't know if you guys watched it before, but for me it was interesting.
@Nilgiri @Ryder @Gary @F-6 enthusiast et al.


Edit- Question, why nobody recognizes anything?
Whatever happened in 1971, (Whether you consider it genocode or not) international community (including many prominent muslim countries like Turkey, KSA, Indonesia, Malaysia) are surprisingly silent about it compared to other atrocities of 20th century.

Consider that the country you mentioned doesn't have a particularly bright record on human treatment, it's not surprising.

In the 70s, Saudi, Indonesia, Turkey are considered close allies with Pakistan (against Soviet Communism) and considerable ties in the field of intelligence,so maybe that explain.

At the time of operation torchlight, these respective country would have seen it as internal Pakistan matters

 

[Ryder]

Consider that the country you mentioned doesn't have a particularly bright record on human treatment, it's not surprising.

In the 70s, Saudi, Indonesia, Turkey are considered close allies with Pakistan (against Soviet Communism) and considerable ties in the field of intelligence,so maybe that explain.

At the time of operation torchlight, these respective country would have seen it as internal Pakistan matters

Geopolitics when it comes to relations many countries will not mention the atrocities done by said country because the country will mention their atrocities.

No country has a clean record. This includes Australia in our short we lots of controversaries and a dark past a lot of Australians even find it discomofrting that in our short history we did some pretty awful shit I know a lot of people are like you are descended from an immigrant community so you done nothing im born here so.

A lot of countries especially Western and European countries need to get off their high horse. Human history and geopolitics is full of blood.

Human nature regardless of race, religion and ethnic group. What matters is one group having the power and technology to implement their agenda.

Westerners were just more successful in applying that violence with technology and using political cunningness to get what they want also disease mainly in the New World.