TR Defence Exports & Updates

[zio]

We can use 3 TEI-TS1400 in one platform

 

[Afif]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1689451271504424960

Is it possible to put Gokdogan and Bozdogan on Indonesian F16 without getting approval from US?

Nope.

 

[DBdev]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1689451271504424960

Is it possible to put Gokdogan and Bozdogan on Indonesian F16 without getting approval from US?

Yep

UBAS project is platform independent firing system for Air to Air (Gokdogan and Bozdogan) and many other locally produced ammunition like ÇAKIR, SOM, SOM-J, LAÇİN ve TOLUN.
https://www.savunmasanayist.com/milli-muhimmatlarin-f-16lara-entegrasyon-sorunu-cozuluyor/

 

[Afif]

Yep

UBAS project is platform independent firing system for Air to Air (Gokdogan and Bozdogan) and many other locally produced ammunition like ÇAKIR, SOM, SOM-J, LAÇİN ve TOLUN.
https://www.savunmasanayist.com/milli-muhimmatlarin-f-16lara-entegrasyon-sorunu-cozuluyor/

The issue is not about technical solution only.

You simply cannot modify US platforms outside the contract limits.

Also, as far as I understood the UBAS Project, it maybe able to fire Air to ground weapons and WVR missiles but it won't be able to utilise the full potential of Gokdogan as it would require full integration with the FCR.

Gokdogan will probably be launched in slave mode.

 

[DBdev]

The issue is not only about technical solution only.

You simply cannot modify US platforms outside the contract limits.

Also, as far as I understood the UBAS Project, it maybe able fire Air to ground weapons and WVR missiles but it won't be able to utilize the full potential of Gokdogan as it would require full integration with the FCR.

Gokdogan will probably be launched in slave mode.

Sure you can. It requires changing sensors and mission computers, but it can be done as in Ozgur project.
You must be willing to be free from America's control though.

 

[Anmdt]

Gokdogan will probably be launched in slave mode.

Head of SAGE, Mr. Okumuş has told otherwise. He stated Gökdoğan can be used at full potential and they found a way (UBAS is the way). Several weapon systems have been used in that slave mode for more than 15 years with a simple-not that simple-tweak.

outside the contract limits

As you state, whatever contract is telling. More than a decade ago SAGE tweaked weapon identification system (likely written a layer to communicate with the embedded code) to get Turkish made weapons recognized as the equivalent. This hasn't caused any mayhem years ago as TR was experimenting with SOM, guidance kits and et al. (Tolun, multi-rack carrier etc.).

 

[Umigami]

You must be willing to be free from America's control though.

Looking at regional situation and We're on process of upgrading to Viper standards so it's unwise to abandon US.

 

[Huelague]

Looking at regional situation and We're on process of upgrading to Viper standards so it's unwise to abandon US.

Dont worry. US needs you against China.

 

[Afif]

Ukraine's MİLGEM Corvette order rises to 4​

Ukraine is on the way to increase the MİLGEM Corvette order to Turkey to four. The construction activities of the first two corvettes are currently ongoing in Turkey.


Ukraine had ordered MİLGEM Corvette to Turkey in 2020. The corvette, which has been given a firm order, is being built in Turkey under the main contractor of STM . The Hetman Ivan Mazepa Corvette , built in Turkey , was launched with a ceremony held last year.

During the ceremony, it was learned that Ukraine ordered the 2nd MİLGEM Corvette and its construction activities started with the performance of the sheet metal cutting ceremony. According to the information compiled by SavunmaSanayiST.com; Ukraine is on the way to increase the MİLGEM Corvette order to Turkey to 4.

Regarding the issue, Vasyl Bodnar, the Ambassador of Ukraine to Ankara, made a statement to Naval News on the subject. In a statement made by Bodnar, “Our close cooperation with Turkey has a significant impact on our defense capabilities. We launched the first Corvette last year and the second is being built here.

We expect to hold the keel insertion ceremony in mid-August and some crew to start work on the first Corvette.” statements were included.

​

2 More Corvette Orders Coming​

On the other hand, Ukraine is preparing to order 2 more MİLGEM Corvettes to Turkey. Referring to the 2 new corvettes to be ordered, Vasyl Bodnar said, “We have a memorandum signed on 4 corvettes before and it depends on the situation on the front. We'll see how the builds continue and where we can do it. There was also the idea to continue construction in Ukrainian shipyards. However, due to military activities and danger today, they will most likely be built here in Turkey.” said.

​

Ukrainian crew will be trained for MİLGEM Corvette​

Referring to the training activities of the Ukrainian crews that will take part in the corvettes, Bodnar made the following statements: “First of all, they will start training on land with equipment, engines, ammunition, artillery and all the systems they will have. So land training still continues.


Later, when the ship will sail, it will most likely do so in the area of the ports located here. His whereabouts are still hidden for security reasons, but they will still have the opportunity to work with the Turkish company that built it. Afterwards, naval exercises will be held depending on the decision of both sides.”

According to the statement made by the Deputy Minister of Defense of Ukraine, Alexander Myronyuk, the armament of the ADA Class MİLGEM corvettes of Ukraine will be as follows:

​

MİLGEM ADA Class Corvette (Ukraine)​

• 76mm OTO Melara Super Rapid Sea Gun
• VL MICA NG Medium Range Air Defense System
• 35mm CIWS
• ASELSAN STAMP 12.7mm Stabilized Weapon System
• 8x NEPTUNE or ATMACA or HARPOON Anti-Ship Missiles
• 324mm MU90 Impact Torpedo
• 3D Search Radar manufactured by ASELSAN or Thales
• Vision Master FT Radar
• A total of 8 VLS (4x2) with 4 cells each on port and starboard sides

​

Air Defense Missile System: MBDA MICA​

Alexander Myronyuk: “As an air defense missile system in ADA Class Corvettes to be produced for Ukraine, the possibility of a European-based MBDA production MICA system is being evaluated. The manufacturer stated that the missiles are ready for delivery to Ukraine. The planned system is a modern system that is constantly evolving and adapted for use with corvettes. Turkish corvettes have much more opportunities in this regard.” made statements.

It is stated that MBDA production MICA HSS is specially designed for small tonnage ships such as gunboats and corvettes. The system has already been installed on ships of the French Naval Group, the Dutch SIGMA 10514, the Khareef and Gowind frigates from BAE Systems.

The capabilities of the MICA version developed for the Navy offer the ability to destroy targets up to 20 km range and 9 km altitude. The missile's speed and maneuverability are sufficient to destroy targets moving at speeds up to Mach 3, allowing interception of supersonic missiles. The missile is also capable of intercepting Sea-Skimming cruise missiles.

​

Continue with ADVENT in SYS​

Alexander Myronyuk: “Unfortunately, today, the Ukrainian defense industry cannot offer a system that can exceed the capabilities of the Turkish GENESIS – HAVELSAN production – Combat Management System, which was created within the scope of the state program and has been developed for a long time. Therefore, this system will be used in Ukrainian corvettes without modification.”

In addition, Türk GENESİS; It should be noted that it is already integrated into all NATO standards for communications and automated command and control systems, including the tactical data network Link 16. It was also decided to retain the ship's original sensor systems, radar combat and radio complex. These will be the same as in the Turkish Navy corvettes.” said.

Defense Express said, “Thus, the Ukrainian corvette will be much more efficient than its counterparts in the Black Sea compared to the basic version of the ADA, thanks to a more powerful air defense system. To explain, the Russian corvettes of the “Buyan-M” class and the project 22160 do not have enough air defense, which allows even the Bayraktar TB2 Armed UAV to work.” found in the appendix.

Ukrayna'nın MİLGEM Korveti siparişi 4'e yükseliyor

Ukrayna, Türkiye'ye verdiği MİLGEM Korvet siparişini dörde yükseltme yolunda. İlk iki korvetin inşa faaliyetleri, halihazırda Türkiye'de devam ediyor.

www.savunmasanayist.com

 

[uçuyorum]

It is kinda annoying that Ada class based designs we sell end up being better equipped than ours. Hoping for ADA class improvements sooner rather than later.

 

[Afif]

ADA Class is selling like hotcakes.

And holy cow! Ukriane bought 2 ADA corvettes for $260 millions only.

that figure is still baffling to me, but it seems almost all defence news reported the same.

(Initial contract was $236 millions. But given the variation in the configuration and workshare it increased to $260 millions.)

Chief of Ukrainian navy stated first ship is costing around 150 millions only.

Ukrainian Ada will provide Air Defence Missions | TURDEF

Ukraine will acquire two Ada Class corvettes from Turkiye. Turkish Navy used them for ASW, but Ukrainian corvettes will serve for air defence missions.

www.turdef.com

Recently, Malaysian Ada is costing $177 millions per ship. (If the original budget of $530 millions for three ships did not increased)

However, on the other hand, the original and Pak Milgem program cost was $250 millions per ship.

I find Such wide variations in cost very interesting.

 

[Agha Sher]

ADA Class is selling like hotcakes.

And holy cow! Ukriane bought 2 ADA corvettes for $260 millions only.

that figure is still baffling to me, but it seems almost all defence news reported the same.

(Initial contract was $236 millions. But given the variation in the configuration and workshare it increased to $260 millions.)

Chief of Ukrainian navy stated first ship is costing around 150 millions only.

Ukrainian Ada will provide Air Defence Missions | TURDEF

Ukraine will acquire two Ada Class corvettes from Turkiye. Turkish Navy used them for ASW, but Ukrainian corvettes will serve for air defence missions.

www.turdef.com

Recently, Malaysian Ada is costing $177 millions per ship. (If the original budget of $530 millions for three ships did not increased)

However, on the other hand, the original and Pak Milgem program cost was $250 millions per ship.

I find Such wide variation in cost very interesting.

Is Ada for Malaysia confirmed?

Pakistan's Ada class is highly customized and almost on par with the I-class frigate (2900 tonnes).

 

[Afif]

Is Ada for Malaysia confirmed?

Pretty much I think

STM Signs ToT for Malaysian LMS Batch II | TURDEF

STM signed a memorandum of collaboration for MİLGEM Corvettes at LIMA for the LMS Batch II Procurement Program.

www.turdef.com

Model for Malaysian configuration was displayed with VLS.
@Anmdt said it was modified to meet the budget and specific requirements of Malaysian navy. (4 AShM for example)

 

[Agha Sher]

Model for Malaysian configuration was displayed with VLS.
@Anmdt said it was modified to meet the budget and specific requirements of Malaysian navy. (4 AShM)

But Malaysia has not made a decision yet on the tender, correct?

Beyond this, there is also a moderate chance for 4 Ada class for Romania.

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

ADA Class is selling like hotcakes.

And holy cow! Ukriane bought 2 ADA corvettes for $260 millions only.

that figure is still baffling to me, but it seems almost all defence news reported the same.

(Initial contract was $236 millions. But given the variation in the configuration and workshare it increased to $260 millions.)

Chief of Ukrainian navy stated first ship is costing around 150 millions only.

Ukrainian Ada will provide Air Defence Missions | TURDEF

Ukraine will acquire two Ada Class corvettes from Turkiye. Turkish Navy used them for ASW, but Ukrainian corvettes will serve for air defence missions.

www.turdef.com

Recently, Malaysian Ada is costing $177 millions per ship. (If the original budget of $530 millions for three ships did not increased)

However, on the other hand, the original and Pak Milgem program cost was $250 millions per ship.

I find Such wide variation in cost very interesting.

Radars, sensors, and weapon systems are the most expensive parts of a warship. Therefore it seems that the Ada class produced for Ukraine is cheap, however, if we take the cost of the systems that will operate on the warships then the cost of the ship for Ukraine will probably be around 250 million USD per ship if not more similar to the Sigma corvettes.

On page 194 you will find a little bit more valuable information regarding the Ada hull, and how weapon integration affects the cost of the ship.

 

[Afif]

Radars, sensors, and weapon systems are the most expensive parts of a warship. Therefore it seems that the Ada class produced for Ukraine is cheap, however, if we take the cost of the systems that will operate on the warships then the cost of the ship for Ukraine will probably be around 250 million USD per ship if not more similar to the Sigma corvettes.

I don’t think they do separate deal for Hull and sensors+weapon systems.

And we can be pretty sure that, the Malaysian budget of 530 millions is for the whole package.

On page 194 you will find a little bit more valuable information regarding the Ada hull, and how weapon integration affects the cost of the ship.

Which page 194?

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

I don’t think they do separate deal for Hull and sensors+weapon systems.

And we can be pretty sure that, the Malaysian budget of 530 millions is for the whole package.

I don't know about the Malaysian deal, I was only referring to Ukraine. Ukraine will have french weapon system and radars from what I have understood.

Which page 194?

Take a look here: https://defencehub.live/threads/naval-programs.335/page-193#post-217892

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1691526139397779456

 

[Agha Sher]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1691526139397779456

Would be big for FNSS. Poland currently has roughly 300 BRDM-2 in service

 

[Afif]

It probably won’t happen.
They did some flirting with Roketsan for joint collaboration on MLRS and a signed a MOU, then they turned to Chunmoo-239 deal.