TR Defence Exports & Updates

[Altay_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1801935769830821938

 

[PutinBro]

Quite big news if true, however, is this person & his info reliable?

Translation: It is planned to purchase 14 warships of different types for the Bangladesh navy. Four of these ships will be OPVs and four will be frigates.
MİLGEM's port visits will open the door to new exports in the Turkish defense industry.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1788098886260686891

 

[TheInsider]

Big if true. The Navy of Bangladesh will be a force to be reckoned with if those projects become a reality.

 

[Bluetooth]

How did he get know about BD navy requirement? Is he involved with Türkiye defense industry?

 

[TheInsider]

How did he get know about BD navy requirement? Is he involved with Türkiye defense industry?

Yeah somewhat. He is a journalist. He must have heard the news from the Turkish side. I guess Turkiye can provide 4x Hisar class OPV+4x I class frigates for somewhere around 2.5 billion euros depending on the package. The price tag should be around 150 million for Hisar class OPVs and 400 million for I-class frigates.

 

[Kartal1]

Quite big news if true, however, is this person & his info reliable?

Translation: It is planned to purchase 14 warships of different types for the Bangladesh navy. Four of these ships will be OPVs and four will be frigates.
MİLGEM's port visits will open the door to new exports in the Turkish defense industry.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1788098886260686891

The guy is hit and miss. I would wait for more information next to his word.

 

[Afif]

Quite big news if true, however, is this person & his info reliable?

Translation: It is planned to purchase 14 warships of different types for the Bangladesh navy. Four of these ships will be OPVs and four will be frigates.
MİLGEM's port visits will open the door to new exports in the Turkish defense industry.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1788098886260686891

Huh, who is paying? Türkiye doesn't provide that big line of credit. Somebody is gonna have to pay for it, and it ain't BD. Also, anyone notice the numbers of frigates came down to 4 (if this is true) It was originally planned to be 8. Then it was slashed down to 6, and now 4.

At this point I think we should abandon this frigate program and go for 2/3 Type39B/C AIP submarines from PRC. That would be money well spent and will create some form of preliminary deterrence. Or at least will be the stepping stone. Otherwise Indian Navy has qualitative and quantitative overmach on anything we may buy from Türkiye in small numbers. Coupled with IAF air superiority they will be sunk easily.

Instead we should aim for a renewed frigate program beyond 2030 timeline. 8x ships with 4500/5000 full load and 32x VLS. It will enable a credible surface fleet. And by that time Türkiye may come up with something in-between TF100 and TF2000. Which could a good option.

The guy is hit and miss. I would wait for more information next to his word.

G2G Talks has been going on for years. From what I heard, a secret MOU was signed in 2022.

 

[PutinBro]

Also, anyone notice the numbers of frigates came down to 4 (if this is true) It was originally planned to be 8. Then it was slashed down to 6, and now 4.

BN buys in batches + they never said the 6 'made in BD' frigates are going to be the only ones they're going to buy.We don't know what is the current status of such programs other than the fact that it's impossible for BAF,BN to meet most of the 'fg-30' requirements by 2030.In my view, they are delayed.

 

[moz68k]

TAI part of Boeing and Spirit counterfeit titanium scandal. This might have contributed to TK's ouster. Really bad for TAI's reputation and business.

From the NYT:

[...]

The problem illustrates the complex global supply chain used in producing modern jetliners, and the story of what appears to have gone wrong involves companies in China, Italy, Turkey and the United States.

The issue appears to date to 2019 when a Turkish material supplier, Turkish Aerospace Industries, purchased a batch of titanium from a supplier in China, according to the people familiar with the issue. The Turkish company then sold that titanium to several companies that make aircraft parts, and those parts made their way to Spirit, which used them in Boeing and Airbus planes.

In December 2023, an Italian company that bought the titanium from Turkish Aerospace Industries noticed that the material looked different from what the company typically received. The company, Titanium International Group, also found that the certificates that came with the titanium seemed inauthentic.

Turkish Aerospace Industries did not respond to a request for a comment.

Spirit began investigating the matter, and the company notified Boeing and Airbus in January that it could not verify the source of the titanium used to make certain parts. Titanium International Group told Spirit that when it bought the material in 2019, it had no clue that the paperwork had been forged, according to Spirit officials.

Francesca Conti, a general manager for Titanium International Group, said that the episode was under investigation and that she could not provide additional details. “We are cooperating with relevant authorities to address any issue eventually identified,” she said in an email.

The documents in question are known as certificates of conformity. They serve somewhat as a birth certificate for the titanium, detailing its quality, how it was made and where it came from, Spirit officials said.

People familiar with the situation said it appeared that an employee at the Chinese company that sold the titanium had forged the details on the certificates, writing that the material came from another Chinese company, Baoji Titanium Industry, a firm that often supplies verified titanium. Baoji Titanium later confirmed that it had not supplied the titanium. The origin of the titanium remains unclear.

“Baoji Titanium doesn’t know about the company and has no business dealing with this company,” the firm said in a statement to The New York Times.

Without knowing where the material came from or how it was handled, it is impossible to verify the airworthiness of the parts, said Gregg Brown, the senior vice president for global quality at Spirit.

“Our quality management process relies on the traceability of the raw materials all the way from the mills,” Mr. Brown said. “There has been a loss of traceability in that process and a documentation challenge.”

Spirit officials said they had started testing titanium parts to make sure aviation-grade material was used [...]

 

[Iskander]

TAI part of Boeing and Spirit counterfeit titanium scandal. This might have contributed to TK's ouster. Really bad for TAI's reputation and business.

From the NYT:

For many years, the American airline Lockheed willingly purchased titanium mined in the Soviet Union using forged documents. This global deception involved dozens of front companies created by the CIA around the world. But America didn’t seem to complain to anyone, Lockheed created an excellent reconnaissance aircraft - the famous SR71-Blackbird,
masterpiece of military aviation

and no one thought about the tarnished reputation, everything was just wonderful

And when the Americans themselves began to be deceived by the same methods, America suddenly burst out with a cry about The Great Injustice of the Century!!!

As far as I understand, no one suspects Boeing itself of falsifying documents.
Why did it happen?
Caesar's wife is above suspicion?!

 

[boredaf]

For many years, the American airline Lockheed willingly purchased titanium mined in the Soviet Union using forged documents. This global deception involved dozens of front companies created by the CIA around the world. But America didn’t seem to complain to anyone, Lockheed created an excellent reconnaissance aircraft - the famous SR71-Blackbird, and no one thought about the tarnished reputation, everything was just wonderful

And when the Americans themselves began to be deceived by the same methods, America suddenly burst out with a cry about The Great Injustice of the Century!!!

Getting titanium through shell companies is not the same as selling low quality titanium, its not even in the same galaxy. It was the Cold War and both sides did shit like that to keep up appearances. This is a horrible fucking look for TAI.

 

[Aqerdf]

In spite of pandemic probably.

TAI buys titanium from a Chinese firm "which is a world-known quality brand".

But in there, either knowingly from Chinese sector or unknowingly from TAI's selected quality firm -for purchase, a fraud happening in that Chinese end.

And the news don't say that titanium is low quality. It's just say they can't be sure if it's good quality or not.

So if it's true, the baddieness is not particularly on TAI's end.

Relating all those Boeing shenanigans to TAI is not correct, this i can easily say.

Because if it's like that, Boeing or other aviation firms was already acted way way before.

This news is interesting. Should be searched by TR for both quality assurance checks and also for if there's potential malicious ops against them.

 

[Anmdt]

In spite of pandemic probably.

TAI buys titanium from a Chinese firm "which is a world-known quality brand".

But in there, either knowingly from Chinese sector or unknowingly from TAI's selected quality firm -for purchase, a fraud happening in that Chinese end.

And the news don't say that titanium is low quality. It's just say they can't be sure if it's good quality or not.

So if it's true, the baddieness is not particularly on TAI's end.

Relating all those Boeing shenanigans to TAI is not correct, this i can easily say.

Because if it's like that, Boeing or other aviation firms was already acted way way before.

This news is interesting. Should be searched by TR for both quality assurance checks and also for if there's potential malicious ops against them.

Regardless of that TAI is still responsible with authentication of certificates and materials ( to make sure that it complies with the given standards ). Either for resold or in-house used materials this is a necessity.

 

[neosinan]

2b$ export deal claim to Nigeria by Yusuf Akbaba;

If the financing issue is resolved between Nigeria and Turkey, it is expected that a package agreement worth more than 2 billion dollars will be made for the sale of UAVs, fixed-wing manned aircraft and rotary wing systems.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1802080626499055972

 

[Bozan]

Regardless of that TAI is still responsible with authentication of certificates and materials ( to make sure that it complies with the given standards ). Either for resold or in-house used materials this is a necessity.

The real danger is if we don't check authenticity and use it in our own manufacturing. That is going to be a nightmare and incredibly expensive working out which vehicles need to be refit. Did other companies have the same problem?

 

[Ahlatshah]

Regardless of that TAI is still responsible with authentication of certificates and materials ( to make sure that it complies with the given standards ). Either for resold or in-house used materials this is a necessity.

So true. In addition, Tusaş must give statement or explanation about the situation immediately like we are looking into that or something like this. But, if what they say is true about titanium certification, Tusaş has to own the responsibility of it to remain reliable supplier.

I wonder whether there is a connection of replacement of Temel Kotil with this incident.

 

[moz68k]

IIRC Kotil mentioned TAI having a substantial titanium stockpile in an interview a few years back. It could be that they got a sweetheart deal from some shady supplier and never checked the quality. Unacceptable.

UPDATE
There are two companies (probably more) going by the anglicized name Baoji Titanium in the Shaanxi province. It's clear there was massive fraud. The Baoji (aka Baoti) contacted by the New York Times is likely the more reputable one. There is another Baoji (aka Boze), here's an article they themselves wrote about KAAN, which implies a working relationship. We got played. Someone didn't look beyond the name, location and forged certifications. We should have done the necessary quality control.

 

[Anmdt]

IIRC Kotil mentioned TAI having a substantial titanium stockpile in an interview a few years back. It could be that they got a sweetheart deal from some shady supplier and never checked the quality. Unacceptable.

UPDATE
There are two companies (probably more) going by the anglicized name Baoji Titanium in the Shaanxi province. It's clear there was massive fraud. The Baoji (aka Baoti) contacted by the New York Times is likely the more reputable one. There is another Baoji (aka Boze), here's an article they themselves wrote about KAAN, which implies a working relationship. We got played. Someone didn't look beyond the name, location and forged certifications. We should have done the necessary quality control.

This kind of 'sweet' deals are organized by a middleman. So it is unlikely for TAI to look up a supplier and find them but rather someone was either contacted by the shady supplier or the middleman individually found a cheap titanium and resold it to TAI at huge profit margin.
Ofcourse fill in the blanks and find out why the investigation does not deepen here in TR.

 

[boredaf]

This kind of 'sweet' deals are organized by a middleman. So it is unlikely for TAI to look up a supplier and find them but rather someone was either contacted by the shady supplier or the middleman individually found a cheap titanium and resold it to TAI at huge profit margin.
Ofcourse fill in the blanks and find out why the investigation does not deepen here in TR.

I don't buy that, especially if we were also using or planning on using this titanium on our projects. They should've investigated every single step of the process before committing to anything. I don't know if Kotil being replaced had anything to do with this or not, but heads should most definitely roll over this one if this in any way effects our projects. That is infinitely worse than the damage to TAI's reputation.

 

[what]

Someone better check that stockpile of Titanium in TAIs warehouses.