TR Defence Exports & Updates

[Ripley]

Both agreements emphasize the importance of technology transfer and strengthening national capacity as the foundation for building a self-reliant and sustainable defense industry. Roketsan will lead technology transfer in the field of missile systems, including intellectual property licensing, production expertise, and technical training.

I’m glad that they finally signed this deal that includes ToT as well.
I must admit though I couldn’t figure out what exactly the underlined part means.
Maybe @Lordimperator can further explain in a more clear English.

 

[Yasar_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1889634056217702689

Each set has 6 aircraft?,
60 set tb3 and 9 set akinci.

Indonesia has a land area of 1.9 million square kilometres.
But it has seas in between which has an area of 5.8 million square kilometres.
That is a total of nearly 8 million square kilometres to defend.
You will need a large fleet of aircrafts to patrol that area.
Beside that, you need to patrol the oceanic area around the lands. That is a huge surface area to be covered. Especially when you consider the fact that some of it in the north is contested by the Chinese too. A good number of LHDs with TB3s as well as land operated ones would be needed. 360 TB3s may just about do the business. Turkey has About 800thousand square kilometres land and has over 260 tb2 drones.

If you take Into consideration that the Majority of the TB3s will be manufactured in house under licence, the outlay of finances over a few years can be manageable.

 

[Ahlatshah]

wow, 60 Tb3 and 9 Akinci

In the presentation made to Polish deputies by Polish Deputy Minister of Defense Czesław Mroczek, detailed information was given about the equipment of the Bayraktar TB2 UCAV systems to be imported from Turkey.Stating that they purchased 4 sets of TB2 SIHAs, each containing 6 SIHAs (24 in total), Mroczek presented details about the products and technical information to be included in each set.

According to Mroczek, in each set

• 3 Baykar Mobile Ground Control Stations (Mobile YKİ)
• 6 MX-15 EO/IR sensors
• 2 SAR radars (for reconnaissance missions)
• 6 IFF systems
• There will be 3 mobile data terminals (for range extension purposes).

Polonya'nın Bayraktar TB2 Tedarikinde Yeni Detaylar

Polonya’nın Türkiye’den Bayraktar TB2 Taktik Silahlı İnsansız Hava Aracı (SİHA) alımına dair yeni detaylar gün yüzüne çıkmaya devam ediyor.

www.savunmasanayist.com

1 set of Bayraktar TB2 consisted 6 UAV, exported to Poland. Number of UAVs in a set can vary from countries to countries or requirements, but if it is indeed 6 TB3 in a set, that makes total of 360 TB3. It is an outrageous number, for even we dont have 360 total number of MALE or HALE as far as I know.

But considering the level of ToT, it seems total procurement should exceed just 60. Still no explanation from Baykar or Haluk Bayraktar but this could be very well the biggest export of UAVs after Saudis

 

[Lordimperator]

I’m glad that they finally signed this deal that includes ToT as well.
I must admit though I couldn’t figure out what exactly the underlined part means.
Maybe @Lordimperator can further explain in a more clear English.

There are some rumours, althou i cant cite the source that IDN will licensing/ locally made the 200mm rocket with roketsan assistance. I think Khan MLRS
With Republikorp newly built manufacture at Subang.

 

[Lordimperator]

Also we are expecting the bulk order for atmaca and siper missiles

 

[Yasar_TR]

There are some rumours, althou i cant cite the source that IDN will licensing/ locally made the 200mm rocket with roketsan assistance. I think Khan MLRS
With Republikorp newly built manufacture at Subang.

Roketsan produces a 122mm and 230mm rocket munition that can be fired from drones like Akinci and probably TB3.
Trg122 missile (122mm diameter) has a weight of 76kg and when fired from air should have a range of about 70-80km.
There is also a trg230 (230mm diameter) with a weight of 215kg and if fired from air can hit targets 150 km away with precision. As TB3s has a maximum capacity of 280kg, it may be just about capable to carry one Trg230. But should easily accommodate the trg122 missiles.
KHAN missile is a land launched twin canister solid fuelled rocket system like the above missiles. It is 600mm in diameter, 450kg explosive payload with a range of just under 300km. It can hit targets with pin point accuracy.

Also the expexting the bulk order for atmaca and siper missiles

Atmaca is a 890 kg weight anti ship missile powered by a solid fuel booster and a locally manufactured turbojet engine that can easily sink frigates with it’s 250kg warhead. It has a range in excess of 250km. It can hit all surface platforms with precision. It can be fired from land or sea platforms.

 

[Lordimperator]

Roketsan produces a 122mm and 230mm rocket munition that can be fired from drones like Akinci and probably TB3.
Trg122 missile (122mm diameter) has a weight of 76kg and when fired from air should have a range of about 70-80km.
There is also a trg230 (230mm diameter) with a weight of 215kg and if fired from air can hit targets 150 km away with precision.
KHAN missile is a land launched twin canister solid fuelled rocket system like the above missiles. It is 600mm in diameter with a range of just under 300km. It can hit targets with pin point accuracy.


Atmaca is a 890 kg weight anti ship missile powered by a solid fuel booster and a locally manufactured turbojet engine that can easily sink frigates with it’s 250kg warhead. It has a range in excess of 250km. It can hit all surface platforms with precision. It can be fired from land or sea platforms.

There is atmaca coastal version? Althou still subsonic, hopefully Atmaca won against the rumoured Brahmos and Yj 12 in our coastal competition.

 

[Ahlatshah]

There is atmaca coastal version? Althou still subsonic, hopefully Atmaca won against the rumoured Brahmos and Yj 12 in our coastal competition.

 

[Yasar_TR]

There is atmaca coastal version? Althou still subsonic, hopefully Atmaca won against the rumoured Brahmos and Yj 12 in our coastal competition.

There is. Turkiye already has test fired them in July 2022.

It has high degree of anti jam capability. It has proven to be able to hit targets under heavy GPS jamming. Can manoeuvre during flight to make it more difficult for CIWS. It is also super sea skimming. Therefore can only be detectable during last 25km .

Edit,
Kara Atmaca in previous YouTube has an extended range. I don’t know if we can sell that due to MTCR.

 

[Ahlatshah]

Kara Atmaca in previous YouTube has an extended range. I don’t know if we can sell that due to MTCR.

Yes indeed. But just like Bora missile exported version name Khan, i hope it can be transformed to an export version and even renamed depending on demand.

BTW, defenceturk says 4 TB3 and Akıncı in a set. That makes 240 TB3 and 36 Akıncı.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1889647103716053187

 

[hugh]

Yes indeed. But just like Bora missile exported version name Khan, i hope it can be transformed to an export version and even renamed depending on demand.

BTW, defenceturk says 4 TB3 and Akıncı in a set. That makes 240 TB3 and 36 Akıncı.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1889647103716053187

That sounds too good to be true. We should wait for the official figures

 

[Yasar_TR]

Yes indeed. But just like Bora missile exported version name Khan, i hope it can be transformed to an export version and even renamed depending on demand.

BTW, defenceturk says 4 TB3 and Akıncı in a set. That makes 240 TB3 and 36 Akıncı.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1889647103716053187

That is the deduction of a Defenceturk X message writer. Yet according to Avoiotionist‘s Polish writer there were 6 UAVs in a set in the TB2s Poland received. .
Are we to believe what a message says or an actual sale?

And there is also Baykar’s site that says each set is composed of 6/UAVs.

https://baykartech.com/en/press/the-first-sets-of-bayraktar-drones-were-delivered-to-the-mirosawiec-base/

Final Delivery of Polish Bayraktar TB2 Drones Completed

Poland now operates all of its new TB2 drones previously ordered from Turkey. Polish MOD studying the possibility of establishing a new branch of the

theaviationist.com

 

[Lordimperator]

That sounds too good to be true. We should wait for the official figures

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1889664748670628004

yep, better waiting from the official

 

[Sanchez]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1889664748670628004

yep, better waiting from the official

This is just people going off from past contracts with Poland, Romania etc and assuming numbers. So far there is only one source claiming numbers. It's the Jawapos article I also shared:

"Produk utama yang akan di lokalisasi mencakup UAV kelas Medium-Altitude Long-Endurance (MALE) TB3 Bayraktar sebanyak 60 set dan High-Altitude Long-Endurance (HALE) Akinci Bayraktar sebanyak 9 set, yang akan mendukung strategi penguatan industri kedirgantaraan dan kemandirian pertahanan nasional."

"The main products to be localized include 60 sets of TB3 Bayraktar Medium-Altitude Long-Endurance (MALE) class UAVs and 9 sets of Akinci Bayraktar High-Altitude Long-Endurance (HALE), which will support the strategy of strengthening the aerospace industry and national defense independence."

https://www.jawapos.com/hankam/015637331/indonesia-turki-perkuat-kemitraan-strategis-dalam-industri-uav-melalui-joint-venture-agreement

We don't know what a "set" means here. It could mean 60 separate systems, meaning control stations and 2-6 drones each. It could also just mean 60 drones and accompanying control stations. As we argued in the TNI-AL thread, as the sea area Indonesian armed forces need to control is very large, it would be expected that the setup of the systems be tailor made for Indonesian needs. There's also to consider whether this includes naval needs for deployment aboard carriers, which we also don't know if it's happening.

So indeed, we don't know anything re specifics. Just that there's a joint venture to be created for building a large number of drones.

 

[2033]

Indonesia having a strong defense industry will ease Turkey's position. Having a strong partner in world politics always makes things easier for us.

I would like Malaysia, Pakistan, and Nigeria to be part of this club as well.

 

[Ahlatshah]

That sounds too good to be true. We should wait for the official figures

I am somehow very excited for this sale. First for my country to be honest. If we get one step back and consider ten year of span, we may not feel that way while in it, but we have reached a level in UAV sector that was unthinkable 10 or 15 years ago even our wildest dreams. Also, we dont have oil or gas to export like Russia or Iran, in order to live we have to produce and sell to abroad. There is no other way around. When it is high technology product, that will get us somewhere.

In addition, it is good for Indonesia imo. The Country is vast, lots of Islands. There were catastrophies in the past and they lost hundreds of thousands (Allah bless their souls). If they had such technology, they could have detected it earlier and saved thousands of lives, we may never know. Whether it is 60, 180, 240 or 360 doesnt matter, they need that numbers in order to detect, control and maintain order. Also they will built in their country with a very good level of ToT and most of their money stays in their Country.

And there is also Baykar’s site that says each set is composed of 6/UAVs.

I also considered that way but it was for TB2. Defence Turk is a reliable source, so for TB3 I thought their number might be true. However, I hope you are right and the number is 360 obviously. But, even if just 60 (not sets) it would be still very good number. Also Country is so big, that number will be increased in time no matter what

 

[Turkic]

What would be the price tag for 240 TB-3's and 36 Akıncı's if we calculate it with information of previous sales ?

 

[Hannibal]

One Akinci approx = $50 million
One TB-3 approx = $5 million

What would be the price tag for 240 TB-3's and 36 Akıncı's if we calculate it with information of previous sales ?

$1.8 billion for Akinci
$1.2 billion for TB-3
Total $3 billion

 

[Turkic]

One Akinci approx = $50 million
One TB-3 approx = $5 million

$1.8 billion for Akinci
$1.2 billion for TB-3
Total $3 billion

Firstly, thanks for your answer.

But 5 million for one TB-3 is impossible. TB-2 is 5-6 million dollars per unit.

 

[Ripley]

Firstly, thanks for your answer.

But 5 million for one TB-3 is impossible. TB-2 is 5-6 million dollars per unit.

Your numbers are good but we also need to take into consideration the fact that this will be a large sale and they’re planning buyer to manufacture under license.
These factors surely must be taken into account while estimating for such a large deal.