TR Defence Exports & Updates

[Sanchez]

Who says Sedef is courting them and not the other way around?

Because it would be contrary to how any business works. Business seeks business to make money.

I concur with you when it is about SEDEF shipyard that is already busy with building ships for our navy.

It really isn't. AFAIK Sedef currently only have 2 Istifs it's building. İzmit already launched and is set to be delivered by mid 2027, while Karadeniz is set to be delivered by 2029 at the latest, this is Karadeniz from November, 6 months ago.

Until first Tepe gets going, TAIS won't be ordered the follow up ships. Even then, it's not clear if it will be in the same 1 each format like we saw in Istif. Tepe is a much larger, and much more expensive ship. I don't really expect work to start on the first private shipyard Tepe to start before 2030-31, maybe even later. So Sedef must chase exports and civilian vessel contracts in the meanwhile. Sedef built the Anadolu, it can easily build 3 design ready frigates in 3-4 years.

 

[Nutuk]

Well I do of course not know the capacity use of TAIS and SEDEF, if they have room they should take the order but if not there are still plenty of Turkish shipyards to step in.

My main argument is we should not chase away customers. We try all types of limbo dancing to get market share and should not turn away potential customers while we have shipyard capacity overload (70 shipyards!)

 

[Yasar_TR]

while we have shipyard capacity overload (70 shipyards

Bro, of those 70 shipyards, how many can build 6 to 7 ton frigates? More importantly how many have got the expertise and approval to build ships to NATO standards?

Please see my below post #1644

https://defencehub.live/threads/navy-news-discussions.155/page-83#post-384270

 

[Nutuk]

Don't know but Kuasar marine has a design of 5500 ton frigate
Dearsan F142 design is 5500 ton design

I suppose we have several shipyards that can or have the ambition

 

[Saithan]

I would like to point out that shipyards like so many workplaces employ more people according to the workload, but once that workload is lessened it's either laying off people or finding more work.

My previous posts should be seen in this regard. Why employ and go up to 100% capacity if you can't fill up the workbook for at least 15-20 years at 100%. Working at 80% capacity for 3-6 more years would be more beneficial.

Hence why I pointed out the need to fill up productionline on TN shipyard to ensure production and keep people employed.

 

[Sanchez]

Huh, MMT-76 in Georgian service.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2059241643853717968

 

[OPTIMUS]

Don't know but Kuasar marine has a design of 5500 ton frigate
Dearsan F142 design is 5500 ton design

I suppose we have several shipyards that can or have the ambition

Quasar is a design office. Nothing else.

But their design promises a lot. Especially the armament is of destroyer class. Above all, when it comes to air defense, a class of its own, unmatched. Because at this tonnage, the other ships with ASW capability are in the front plan.

 

[Nutuk]

If it is up to me SSB should work to it to get the Belgian order (I do not know if this is possible since the design of the ships belong to Damen) and use this large ship building project to get a few more shipyards to the level of being able to construct large warships. We need more shipyards that can build big ships. Make it a win win situation.

 

[Sanchez]

After Georgia, Syria is the second neighbor to operate BMC Amazon.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2012826215476846889

After Amazon and Cobra II, Syria also started operating Nurol NMS, and with 7.62 Sarp. Syria is now operating armored vehicles from all three major Turkish 4x4 builders. Makes sense as these firms are one of the best in delivering in time. We'll probably see a FNSS venture into the country in the future as well with their amphibious capabilities. Very Turkish coded bayram/eid video as well.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2059515608060793120

 

[Pokemonte13]

I know its bought with Saudi/Qatari/Gulf money but still sad that they get these new vehicles and our army still uses old M113 and ACV15 and neither buys new nor upgrades the old stuff. Its not a money problem as navy buys more or less anything it wants basically no vision.

 

[Sanchez]

I know its bought with Saudi/Qatari/Gulf money but still sad that they get these new vehicles and our army still uses old M113 and ACV15 and neither buys new nor upgrades the old stuff. Its not a money problem as navy buys more or less anything it wants basically no vision.

Doesn't really track tbh. Syria is upgrading from Toyotas and as you said regional neighbours are helping with financing because we need a stable Syria, they are dealing with ISIS cells everyday. M113s and ACVs are ancient, but they are still active vehicles in active use. And the 8x8s and tracked AFVs that are set to replace them are very, very expensive compared to these 4x4s.

 

[Anmdt]

Currently all shipyards are full with orders. @Anmdt touched on this multiple times, we sure as hell don't need to built ships from Damen for the Belgium for our shipyards to survive.

Like I said they want to benefit from our industry they can order Turkish ships with their own subsystems anything else they can fuck off.

Except Sedef Shipyard, i guess. Remaining of the major shipyards had 5 years booked ahead.
Though, i couldn't verify if they have officially talked about intentions of building Belgian ships in Sedef. Damen has shipyards around the world, and also in Romania. Altogether Belgium might be interested in some another design as well.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Except Sedef Shipyard, i guess. Remaining of the major shipyards had 5 years booked ahead.
Though, i couldn't verify if they have officially talked about intentions of building Belgian ships in Sedef. Damen has shipyards around the world, and also in Romania. Altogether Belgium might be interested in some another design as well.

As you have rightly put your finger on, the real reason the frigates are delayed have got a lot to do with design issues. These were to be large 6400ton ASW frigates. But the start of new delivery timeline has now been set as 2034. Plus the original 600million Euro price per ship has increased to 1billion Euros with a prospective 250million Euro additional increase in line.

The design was supposed to include additional future growth possibilities added to the ships. This is causing major delays as the ships are far from meeting original requirements.

Design delays impact frigate deliveries for the Netherlands, Belgium

Design delays mean deliveries of new Anti-Submarine Warfare Frigates (ASWFs) for the navies of The Netherlands and Belgium will start three years later than previously...

www.janes.com

This isn’t the first time Damien has failed. The German F126 programme they were in charge of was delayed too, due to IT interface problems etc. so much so that the Dutch government had interfered as well.

Netherlands Provides Support to Damen Naval as German Frigates are Delayed

Reports in the Dutch media and by Bloomberg indicate that the Netherlands government has decided to provide support to help Damen Naval as it works t...

maritime-executive.com

This is a good opportunity for us. It could be great experience gain to work to produce a large frigate like these for our private shipyards.

 

[Pokemonte13]

Isn’t f126 dead I thought they were buying meko 200 instead? (F126 overall a crappy ship for that price tag)

 

[Khagan1923]

Isn’t f126 dead I thought they were buying meko 200 instead? (F126 overall a crappy ship for that price tag)

F126 is not dead but due to it being delayed by almost 5 years (original date for induction 2028) F128 is meant as a interim solution as TKMS promises a fast delivery (1. Ship in 2029).

Though if F126 continues being plagued by problem it might get scrapped and more F128 might get ordered.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Isn’t f126 dead I thought they were buying meko 200 instead? (F126 overall a crappy ship for that price tag)

The German F126 frigate program has not been officially cancelled, but it is "foreseeably delayed" and facing severe industrial restructuring. Plagued by chronic software and IT integration issues with the lead contractor, Dutch-based Damen Naval, the German Ministry of Defence (MoD) has initiated a major overhaul of the project

MEKO is a side by side project that may in the end cause f126 to be scrapped.