TR Air-Force EF Typhoon

[Quasar]

@Sanchez Which base(s) do you think EF typhoons will be stationed?

 

[Spitfire9]

So , over 10$ bn for 20 planes. 2.6 bn£ to train 40 pilots and lets say 400 crew????? I think that this dead will cost Turkey, together with second hand planes, well over 20bn . I f hope at least that for " training" they will use British airframes. If they use Turkish , it basicaly means 19 airframes. Probably, , they will use Omani airframes.
I hope that Turkiye avoids buying, even f needle from these B.
Oh that support? What spare parts does it include? I hope not , just some spanners.
Necessary but horrible horrible deal

I read in the UK government press release below that the 20 new Typhoons will cost 8 billion GBP with weapons and support. Very, very expensive IMO.

20,000 UK jobs secured as Türkiye buys 20 Typhoon jets in biggest fighter jet deal in a generation

Thousands of skilled UK jobs have been secured for years to come as the UK and Türkiye sign a deal worth up to £8 billion for 20 UK Typhoon fighter jets – the biggest fighter jet exports deal in a generation.

www.gov.uk

 

[Sanchez]

@Sanchez Which base(s) do you think EF typhoons will be satationed?

Wholly depends on the force structure tbh. I believe currently apart from short deployments, there are no squadrons based in 7. AJÜ, Malatya. It's close to Iran, could be one possibility. Others would be Konya or Eskişehir. If they are solely seen as counter to Greek Rafales, Balıkesir makes most sense. It also possibly won't stay put, none of our squadrons ever stay put. Makes most sense to handle the first years of training in Eskişehir and Konya, best facilities are there. And EF is a scramble queen anyhow, takes minutes to go to a location.

I read in the UK government press release below that the 20 new Typhoons will cost 8 billion GBP with weapons and support

"Up to". Only figure signed so far is for 5.4B GBP.

 

[Angry Turk !!!]

i mean we're not just buying an aircraft but an entire system( infrastructure, spare parts, weapons) and much more. Its not fair comparing it to the F16 purchase. Tolga özbek made a good video why the price is so high

It is quite funny how people like to ignore this fact.

 

[boredaf]

I read in the UK government press release below that the 20 new Typhoons will cost 8 billion GBP with weapons and support. Very, very expensive IMO.

20,000 UK jobs secured as Türkiye buys 20 Typhoon jets in biggest fighter jet deal in a generation

Thousands of skilled UK jobs have been secured for years to come as the UK and Türkiye sign a deal worth up to £8 billion for 20 UK Typhoon fighter jets – the biggest fighter jet exports deal in a generation.

www.gov.uk

So, first we couldn't get them, according to you, and now, we are paying too much? As @Sanchez stated, it is 5.4 billion; 5.4 for the planes and munitions. I think you have to find another way to make it seem like a bad deal lad.

 

[Sanchez]

I don't think the price is too high. Three things:

EF is expensive. It's a very expensive way of building a low volume high capacity aircraft, it has 4 countries actively building parts for it and 3 assembly lines, it's bad business.

This is the first time Turkey is getting European jet aircraft, which are different than American aircraft down to some very miniscule but important changes.

As outlined before, price is not even that high compared to other users:

One could say that Gulf nations are not the best examples, but Italy was presented a bill of up to 8.1 billion USD for 24 Tranche 4s to replace their T1s last year.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/italy-spend-75-bln-euros-new-eurofighter-jets-document-shows-2024-07-08/

And as a bonus, we already talked about how there's no MSRP for deals as complex as this; but one more thing to convey is the post covid inflation. USD and all the other currencies lost about 25 to 50% of their value in the last 15 years. 1 billion USD in 2010 is 1.5 billion now. F-35 costs are still considered using the 2012 USD for example, to make the calculation easier.

 

[mehmed beg]

How much Germany pays ? In any case, Turkish Government buying this sh , because it is obvious that they expect the war. Of course, they wouldn't buy this if the situation isn't tricky. I hope there won't be any Effing patrols on some " NATO" flanks either. Why would Turkey spend life time hours of the airframes for those people. 2.6bn of pounds for support???? ?? What is life time of the air frame???? 6000 hours?
It is not even viable to buy extra 20 planes. Count the delays and if Turkey is in conflict, there won't be delivered
Anyway to make long story short, we can see what was Altay tank. Yes , it was delayed and it is expensive, yes we can argue about its effectiveness in the modern warfare but, no German or Brit or any of that stuff will ever make a penny from Turkiye in that department. Who can make a tank , that one can make everything else vis a vis land systems.

 

[Ripley]

How much Germany pays ? In any case, Turkish Government buying this sh , because it is obvious that they expect the war. Of course, they wouldn't buy this if the situation isn't tricky. I hope there won't be any Effing patrols on some " NATO" flanks either. Why would Turkey spend life time hours of the airframes for those people. 2.6bn of pounds for support???? ?? What is life time of the air frame???? 6000 hours?
It is not even viable to buy extra 20 planes. Count the delays and if Turkey is in conflict, there won't be delivered
Anyway to make long story short, we can see what was Altay tank. Yes , it was delayed and it is expensive, yes we can argue about its effectiveness in the modern warfare but, no German or Brit or any of that stuff will ever make a penny from Turkiye in that department. Who can make a tank , that one can make everything else vis a vis land systems.

It’s really hard to consider 20 new and 20-odd minimally flown EF purchase as a war preparation while there are only 20-odd designated TurAF workhorse F-4s left in flying condition.

 

[boredaf]

How much Germany pays ?

Why on earth does that matter? Is TSK paying the same price as foreign customers for TB2s or other Turkish made goods? Of course not. It is no different for them either. Every single country on the planet does the same thing, what are you complaining about here exactly?

I hope there won't be any Effing patrols on some " NATO" flanks either. Why would Turkey spend life time hours of the airframes for those people.

Pilots need flight hours and doing it alongside other NATO air forces gives them experience they wouldn't be able to get through flying over our own territory. Experience AND expertise we have gotten through NATO has been invaluable, why do you think we have been one of the most active nations in NATO missions and exercises?

2.6bn of pounds for support???? ?? What is life time of the air frame???? 6000 hours?

For all the infrastructure that is needed, all the equipment and parts necessary to maintain the planes and the engines and for all the training required for the maintenance crews. This isn't some car you can just take to OSTIM Sanayi and give it to an usta there. And it is a completely new aircraft for us that unlike F-16, we don't have the maintenance and support infrastructure in place.

It is not even viable to buy extra 20 planes.

Why isn't it viable to buy the extra 20 planes? By all accounts and from what is said by all sides, we are doing everything we can to fast track it and UK has been helping us as well. Why on earth are you creating imaginary scenarios in their head than getting mad about it?

 

[mehmed beg]

It’s really hard to consider 20 new and 20-odd minimally flown EF purchase as a war preparation while there are only 20-odd designated TurAF workhorse F-4s left in flying condition.

I said, I know that Turkiye has to accept this deal. F 4s are dead , they can do little patrols and God knows how long it takes, to prepare them. I think only worthwhile thing in this affair is possibility that Qatari planes will be in Turkey pretty soon. Considering the situation with Qatar, it is very big favour indeed.
Interesting, when the negotiations were going on about F16s, we could see itemsed bill, here???? That it tells you how these bastards played Turkiye.
I am sure that this German skunk who is in Turkiye today and blubbering about defence ties , played bad cop role , oh hard to get.
So I hope, that Turkiye after this won't buy effing screw from these B s. Let them have Euro Dron f them.
These people have no future anyway, sooner people realise that, the better.

 

[Pokemonte13]

Interesting, when the negotiations were going on about F16s, we could see itemsed bill, here???? That it tells you how these bastards played Turkiye.

Bro its been a couple of days

 

[mehmed beg]

Why on earth does that matter? Is TSK paying the same price as foreign customers for TB2s or other Turkish made goods? Of course not. It is no different for them either. Every single country on the planet does the same thing, what are you complaining about here exactly?


Pilots need flight hours and doing it alongside other NATO air forces gives them experience they wouldn't be able to get through flying over our own territory. Experience AND expertise we have gotten through NATO has been invaluable, why do you think we have been one of the most active nations in NATO missions and exercises?


For all the infrastructure that is needed, all the equipment and parts necessary to maintain the planes and the engines and for all the training required for the maintenance crews. This isn't some car you can just take to OSTIM Sanayi and give it to an usta there. And it is a completely new aircraft for us that unlike F-16, we don't have the maintenance and support infrastructure in place.


Why isn't it viable to buy the extra 20 planes? By all accounts and from what is said by all sides, we are doing everything we can to fast track it and UK has been helping us as well. Why on earth are you creating imaginary scenarios in their head than getting mad about it?

I understand that the pilots gain experience. But better in the excises? Otherwise, after all those patrols , how many hours will be left in the airframes? I understand that pilots and ground crews need to be trained, what? 500 600 people?
I understand that Turkey needs these planes urgently, I just hate the fact that a plane would cost up? to 500 millions . I don't know what the bill will be for training, upgrade, weapons of Qatari and Omani planes????
Oh " they are going to be quick" for 500 millions POUNDS, they should effing dance tango. What? To be grateful even for that?
In any case I hope this the last big ticket item, maybe only air tankers.

 

[boredaf]

I understand that the pilots gain experience. But better in the excises? Otherwise, after all those patrols , how many hours will be left in the airframes? I understand that pilots and ground crews need to be trained, what? 500 600 people?
I understand that Turkey needs these planes urgently, I just hate the fact that a plane would cost up? to 500 millions . I don't know what the bill will be for training, upgrade, weapons of Qatari and Omani planes????
Oh " they are going to be quick" for 500 millions POUNDS, they should effing dance tango. What? To be grateful even for that?
In any case I hope this the last big ticket item, maybe only air tankers.

Mate, we are not paying 500 million for a plane. We are paying 5.4 billion for 20 planes plus munitions, most likely necessary spares and whatnot. And the price tracks will all the other sales! It has been mentioned again and again. We are NOT getting fucked over here, we are getting what we wanted. Why is this so hard to accept? You just want to hate West and want this to be a bad deal, is that it?

 

[Sanchez]

Interesting, when the negotiations were going on about F16s, we could see itemsed bill, here????

That's because of American laws and their transparency and accountability requirements. No other country gives out such detailed information on weapons sales.

 

[mehmed beg]

Mate, we are not paying 500 million for a plane. We are paying 5.4 billion for 20 planes plus munitions, most likely necessary spares and whatnot. And the price tracks will all the other sales! It has been mentioned again and again. We are NOT getting fucked over here, we are getting what we wanted. Why is this so hard to accept? You just want to hate West and want this to be a bad deal, is that it?

No I want it to be a good deal and I don't hate West in particular. It is 8 bn of pounds with " support" ? Of course , people need to be trained etc , so the additional 2.6 bn makes it 8 bn pounds. So in reality???? I don't hate West, what it used to be in a sense but nowadays?

 

[Spitfire9]

The price mentioned in the UK government press release was 8 billion GBP. At the moment 1 GBP = 1.317 USD.

 

[boredaf]

The price mentioned in the UK government press release was 8 billion GBP. At the moment 1 GBP = 1.317 USD.

Why are you deliberately ignoring the "up to 8 billion" part, AND the clarification from BAE systems AND Turkish MoD that it is 5.4 billion?

https://www.baesystems.com/en/article/turkiye-typhoon-contract

Here, read for yourself lad.

 

[Spitfire9]

So, first we couldn't get them, according to you, and now, we are paying too much? As @Sanchez stated, it is 5.4 billion; 5.4 for the planes and munitions. I think you have to find another way to make it seem like a bad deal lad.

What is says in the UK government press release

• £8 billion deal struck with Türkiye for first new orders for UK Typhoons since 2017, as the Prime Minister visits Ankara for the first time.

I don't have an axe to grind. I just reported what I read. I bear in mind that the bigger the number, the more positive it looks to the UK public - so the more kudos to the British prime minister who was there when the deal was signed. Things may be more complex than what a politician states.

Agreed, the BAE Systems statement mentioning 5.4 billion GBP for the purchase of 20 Typhoon aircraft and an associated weapons and integration package is far clearer and leads to more accurate understanding.

 

[boredaf]

What is says in the UK government press release

• £8 billion deal struck with Türkiye for first new orders for UK Typhoons since 2017, as the Prime Minister visits Ankara for the first time.

I don't have an axe to grind. I just reported what I read. I bear in mind that the bigger the number, the more positive it looks to the UK public - so the more kudos to the British prime minister who was there when the deal was signed. Things may be more complex than what a politician states.

Yes and that is what you've been ignoring for a few posts now. Starmer said the utmost price they could get to make it look better, whereas I quite literally linked BAE's website to you. The deal is worth 5.4 billion. And here is the confirmation of the same thing from Turkish MoD:

MSB’den Eurofighter maliyetine dair açıklama | SavunmaSanayiST

Millî Savunma Bakanlığı, Türkiye’nin tedarik edeceği 20 adet Eurofighter Typhoon savaş uçağının maliyetinin 5.4 milyar sterlin olduğunu açıkladı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

At the Ministry of National Defense's weekly press briefing, Ministry Spokesperson Rear Admiral Zeki Aktürk made the following statement regarding the matter:

"The project cost for the 20 new-production Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft, the aircraft's mission equipment, and various types and quantities of ammunition included in the procurement plan is approximately 5.4 billion British pounds."

And please, I remember you and your high horse about not selling EF to us, and I see what you're doing now. You went from "you won't get EFs" to "well, you got them but you got fucked over". We got them for a price that is comparable to other sales, don't believe me, go on and look up how much you sold the planes for and adjust the prices for inflation.

 

[Spitfire9]

Yes and that is what you've been ignoring for a few posts now. Starmer said the utmost price they could get to make it look better, whereas I quite literally linked BAE's website to you. The deal is worth 5.4 billion. And here is the confirmation of the same thing from Turkish MoD:

MSB’den Eurofighter maliyetine dair açıklama | SavunmaSanayiST

Millî Savunma Bakanlığı, Türkiye’nin tedarik edeceği 20 adet Eurofighter Typhoon savaş uçağının maliyetinin 5.4 milyar sterlin olduğunu açıkladı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

And please, I remember you and your high horse about not selling EF to us, and I see what you're doing now. You went from "you won't get EFs" to "well, you got them but you got fucked over". We got them for a price that is comparable to other sales, don't believe me, go on and look up how much you sold the planes for and adjust the prices for inflation.

Indeed, I would prefer the UK not to supply states which look like they are heading for despotism. Indeed 5.4 billion GBP does not look very, very expensive. Personally it does not matter much to me what the aircraft, weapons and spares , upgrades of used Typhoons , training cost. Not to Turkiye or any other country although I do think that governments are ripped off in defence deals.