TR Air-Force EF Typhoon

[Khagan1923]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2002291628338254166

Minister of National Defense Yaşar Güler:

"With the agreement we have made with the UK, we are purchasing 20 newly manufactured Eurofighter aircraft. The Eurofighter aircraft to be manufactured will enter the inventory as follows: 6 in 2030, 8 in 2031, and 6 in 2032.

In addition, our negotiations with both Qatar and Oman for the supply of Eurofighter aircraft are continuing positively. The Eurofighters we will acquire from Qatar are ready-to-fly aircraft with very few hours flown.

Our Qatari brothers are showing great understanding. We will acquire these aircraft along with ammunition and materials from Qatar. The aircraft we will acquire from Oman are also aircraft with very few flight hours. They are stored in hangars.

The aircraft to be procured from Oman need to be modernized with AESA radar, METEOR launch capability, and up-to-date avionics systems. We expect the modernization of the 12 aircraft to be completed by 2028.

Our pilots at the Air Component Command in Qatar are constantly working alongside Qatari pilots. We will begin training Eurofighter pilots and maintenance personnel in both Qatar and Oman as soon as possible.

We also do not find the second-hand discussions regarding the purchase of these aircraft to be accurate. Even in Europe, many countries continue to procure and use surplus aircraft.

We are acquiring Eurofighter aircraft together with Meteor missiles. We will be able to use our own national software and ammunition in these aircraft. In this process, we will also develop something better than the Meteor missile, and if they want, we will sell it to them."

Qatar should do us one more good one and hand over all of the 24 EF in their inventory. That is what good friends do for each other right?

 

[TheInsider]

Ridiculous delivery dates.

 

[Khagan1923]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2002292398932554208

Minister Güler:


"We are acquiring Eurofighter aircraft along with Meteor missiles.
We will be able to use our own national software and ammunition on these aircraft.
During this process, we will also develop something better than the Meteor missile, and if they want, we will sell it to them."

Well this is the first official statement I believe that we indeed will be able to integrate our own missiles and bombs on Eurofighter.

 

[mehmed beg]

It must said, that Qatar and Oman deserve a great praise.
Living in those geographies and getting rid of od 2 squadrons of their premier air assets is truly noble act.
Probably, even the prices were as reasonable as possible.

 

[TheInsider]

It must said, that Qatar and Oman deserve a great praise.
Living in those geographies and getting rid of od 2 squadrons of their premier air assets is truly noble act.
Probably, even the prices were as reasonable as possible.

Oman can't maintain and operate its fleet, those fighters are useless for them.
After Iran got dealt a huge blow only security risk of Qatar is Israel. By giving weapons to us, they are indirectly managing that risk. As they can't directly confront Israel even when Israel hits their capital.

 

[mehmed beg]

I

Oman can't maintain and operate its fleet, those fighters are useless for them.
After Iran got dealt a huge blow only security risk of Qatar is Israel. By giving weapons to us, they are indirectly managing that risk. As they can't directly confront Israel even when Israel hits their capital.

I understand that, but nevertheless, it is still comedian act. Another thing is , I believe, both Qatari and Omani air forces will intensify their training with THK , mostly on their own costs. That is in my opinion very very important thing. Hopefully RAF too.

 

[TR_123456]

It must said, that Qatar and Oman deserve a great praise.
Living in those geographies and getting rid of od 2 squadrons of their premier air assets is truly noble act.
Probably, even the prices were as reasonable as possible.

Oman must have made some kind of protection deal with Türkiye,similar to the one Qatar made.

 

[uçuyorum]

Solid delivery plan. The new production ones will take a long time, but Qatari fighters could arrive as soon as next year and 2028 for Aesa modernized Omani fighters, that's pretty good. If we get 24 by 2029, further deliveries of the remaining 20 year by year is Ok

 

[Spitfire9]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2002291628338254166

... we will also develop something better than the Meteor missile, and if they want, we will sell it to them."

Aiming high, higher than Meteor. Good luck in that ambition.

 

[boredaf]

First of all, I checked some of the latest orders for T5 Eurofighters and all of them have their deliveries starting from 2030, so, that's pretty much going according to plan. I checked the prices as well while looking at them and again, they are comparable, too.

Second, if we are going to be able to integrate our own weapons, that raises some interesting questions. This diagram seems to show the latest payload options for Eurofighter:

For me, the most important question is, how much can we play around with this?

For example, what's the load limit of hard points under the carriage? Meteor is 190 kg, 3.65 metre long and its diameter is almost 180 mm. Can it be pushed to carry a 230 kg missile with 230 mm diameter? Because if it can, that would mean our EFs can fly with 6 EF-230 ballistic missile (Ef variant of UAV-230, obviously) and that would give them a pretty good ground strike capability. If not, can we make a, say, EF-180 and use it instead, because I think people in Roketsan can do that in their sleep.

Or, can we build a pod for Eren and use it instead of Brimstone? It is lighter and thinner than Brimstone, albeit a bit longer. For the same weight, one could have 4 Eren in it, so EF could strike from 100+ km instead of 60 (with the new version of Brimstone).

It'll be fun to watch what we can do with EF.

 

[Ripley]

There were rumors regarding this but nothing official of course.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2003394995802505368

 

[Sanchez]

There were rumors regarding this but nothing official of course.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2003394995802505368

Turdef piece from last week is "official" enough as it's a written response from UK embassy. But nothing signed so far. "We are okay with this" and "It costs 500 million to integrate and certify all these weapons and will take 2 years from the start of this agreement" are different things after all.

 

[Sanchez]

Re the training part, we don't know what kind of arrangement will they follow. Will we see a joint TurAF/Qatari or TurAF/RAF fleet like we saw in Qatar?

"Our Minister will receive the CEO of BAE Systems and the British Ambassador to Ankara today. Our Air Force Commander is scheduled to travel to Qatar on January 18-19 for a trilateral meeting with the British and Qatari Air Force Commanders regarding the Typhoon aircraft procurement.”

Katar'da Türkiye ve İngiltere Eurofigter görüşmesi - Tolga Özbek

Türk Hava Kuvvetleri'nin envanterine girecek Eurofighter savaş uçakları için 2030'da fabrika çıkışlı Tranche 4 serisi uçakların yanı sıra ikinci el Katar ve

tolgaozbek.com

 

[Yasar_TR]

There are more and more countries and airforces buying Rafale fighter jets during the last few years. Compared to Typhoons, Rafale is the jet fighter that's been opted for, by most.

One may obviously think why this is.

French offer a multi purpose plane. It is a good fighter that can accomplish both air to air combat and air to ground missions. So when you buy a plane like Rafale you are getting a fairly good Aesa radar, a twin engined fighter and a “Jack of all trades“ type of multi purpose plane. But it is unfortunately “master of none”. It is a more focused jet on air to ground missions. It has an operational navalised version. Plus, French offer good financial conditions and the plane is manufactured by a single country; Not a consortium of four who keep stepping on each other’s toes. (That alone is a big winner in its own right.)

A dedicated fighter is always going to be superior though. An air superiority fighter like Typhoon will always win in an air superiority contest. It can fly faster, higher and is more agile. Its ECRSMk2 radar is top notch and miles ahead of the RB2 on Rafale. It has also gradually been furnished with avionics and guidance systems to allow it to perform ground attack missions too. Its total payload may be lower than Rafale and its operational radius more limited as a multi role aircraft. But as an example, in BVR air to air combat, the superior Aesa radar alone gives a noticeable edge on firing Meteor missiles. It’s RCS is much smaller than it’s French counterpart.

Turkiye made the right choice to go the Typhoon route, when most of the adversaries it has in the region, fly Rafales. (Greece, Egypt, UAE, Serbia and possibly Iraq to buy 14 units). As well as bridging the gap between f16 to Kaan, Typhoons will be a good complementary fighter to Kaans in the years to come.

 

[Huelague]

“Jack of all trades“ type of multi purpose plane. But it is unfortunately “master of none”.

"...oftentimes better than master of one."

 

[TR_123456]

"...oftentimes better than master of one."

Did you not read the whole post?

 

[Yasar_TR]

"...oftentimes better than master of one."

English saying is :

Jack of all trades master of none.

The Shakespearean follow up that makes it a positive compliment is lost overtime.

If you are trying to say that Rafale is better in a2a warfare than a Eurofighter than I must ask you to prove it.

 

[Afif]

It’s RCS is much smaller than it’s French counterpart.

This isn't verified. At least I couldn't find any credible source. If you have some, please do share. It is also of particular interest to me given BAF's choice of Typhoon over Rafale.

 

[Yasar_TR]

This isn't verified. At least I couldn't find any credible source. If you have some, please do share. It is also of particular interest to me given BAF's choice of Typhoon over Rafale.

None of the modern jet fighters’ RCSs are verified. These are all classified information. There are only assumptions and information seeped in to the grapevine either half correctly or erroneously by most probably manufacturers themselves, to improve their products’ sale potentials.

Typhoons engine ducts are designed so that the frontal radar cross section is minimal. Even the wing, canard, and fin leading edges, are highly swept so they will reflect radar energy well away from the front. Some experts put the frontal RCS to be lower then 0.5m2, approaching 0.01m2 and even lower. The weapons are embedded in to the back in the fuselage and also in the back part of the wings.
Most technically orientated experts put Typhoon frontal aspect RCS to be lower than Rafale's. Overall RCS levels of both fighters are assumed to be similar. What separates the Typhoon as superior plane, is the GaN hybrid Aesa radar it has in the form of the ECRS-MK2. This radar's EW capability gives it very high degree of electronic stealth.
No matter how much publicity the French make about Rafale, logically a radar with less than 850 T/R modules can never match a radar with more than 1600 T/R modules that uses GaN based technology.
Also my logic will not accept that, of a similarly designed bodied two planes one with 11000lbf dry thrust engines will outperform one with 13500lbf dry thrust.

I won't go in to the argumentative debate about how Rafales performed in the war against Chinese tech. But now Chinese authorities finally officially declared that their jets outperformed Rafales. That is a bold statement and again only verified by PAK and Chinese sources.

Turkish airforce is one of the most accomplished airforces in the world, and very meticulous in choosing equipment. If they didn’t think that they would have definite advantage over Greek Rafales, they would not have ordered such expensive planes.