TR F-16 Özgür | Hürkuş - Fighter Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Latebra Factum]

it is also dependant on how good your radar and return dB is, (lower the return dB, lower the minimum signal that can be detected) T/R modules increase the resolution and protection against EW, also makes you able to allocate more antennas for EW or ED


That's why peak power is important

that's what i said , you don't need a whole new radar for the F-16 Sustainement , regarding the existing jets like the F-35 or the F-15EX , just a simple radar that doesn't require a high peak power , the reason is to upgrade the F-16 or the F-18s to counter future threats . a cheap and advanced solution with 5th gen tech

 

[TheInsider]

i would say that Su-30 has a bigger RCS, (around 8-10 range)

According to Indians their Su-30s has an RCS of around 4 square meters.

 

[Radonsider]

According to Indians their Su-30s has an RCS of around 4 square meters.

Hmmm, i doubt

 

[Latebra Factum]

According to Indians their Su-30s has an RCS of around 4 square meters.

the russian variants (precisely the export ones) have a lot bigger RCS

 

[TheInsider]

Somewhere between 120-150km depending on the RCS of Su-30 ( approx. 4 square meters).

90 = dedection range for 1 square meter target (you can recalculate using 100 or 120km mentioned in different sources)
4= RCS of Su-30
1= RCS of F-16 or 1 square meter target

Rmax= 90x(4/1)^0.25

I have given the formula work your way for different RCS numbers from that. Note that real-life detection ranges might change as radars can focus a beam at tighter angles losing coverage but gaining more signal power.

 

[Latebra Factum]

Exactly, somewhat external sensors for the 5/5.5/6 gen aircraft, making them able to combat without risking the main aircraft

indeed , i hope Turkey assists in some 6th gen fighter programs like the GCAP or the FCAS , they have some really good engineering capabilities

 

[Latebra Factum]

Somewhere between 120-150km depending on the RCS of Su-30 ( approx. 4 square meters).

90 = dedection range for 1 square meter target (you can recalculate using 100 or 120km mentioned in different sources)
4= RCS of Su-30
1= RCS of F-16 or 1 square meter target

Rmax= 90x(4/1)^0.25

it's about 127,27 km , really good range

 

[TheInsider]

A Greek F-16 block 70 upgraded with APG-83 SABR can only detect a fighter with an RCS of 0.01 square meters at 29km and a fighter with an RCS of 0.001 square meters at 16km. That is why Kızılelma is important and game-changing. Even with a modest 0.01 square meter RCS value an F-16 block 70 will have no chance against Kızılelma which carries Gökdoğan and Murad AESA.

 

[Latebra Factum]

A Greek F-16 block 70 upgraded with APG-83 SABR can only detect a fighter with an RCS of 0.01 square meters at 29km and a fighter with an RCS of 0.001 square meters at 16km. That is why Kızılelma is important and game-changing. Even with a modest 0.01 square meter RCS value an F-16 block 70 will have no chance against Kızılelma which carries Gökdoğan and Murad AESA.

in my area , an Su-30 will be detected by our fighters at 127 km , so the military capabilities depends on the surroundings of the country

 

[zio]

As I said before if the air is clear(above 30.000 feet mostly clear),a good IR sensor can see any fighter including F35 at 100 km,yes you can not lock on but you can see it.If you see it you can find a solution too.

 

[Latebra Factum]

As I said before if the air is clear(above 30.000 feet mostly clear),a good IR sensor can see any fighter including F35 at 100 km,yes you can not lock on but you can see it.If you see it you can find a solution too.

it depends on the IR sensor quality

 

[TheInsider]

in my area , an Su-30 will be detected by our fighters at 127 km , so the military capabilities depends on the surroundings of the country

It depends. If the RCS of Su-30 is 10 square meter and the detection range of the APG-83 for a target with an RCS of 1 square meter is 120km as one of the sources claim, the detection range for SU-30 is over 200km.

 

[Radonsider]

As I said before if the air is clear(above 30.000 feet mostly clear),a good IR sensor can see any fighter including F35 at 100 km,yes you can not lock on but you can see it.If you see it you can find a solution too.

You can get firing solutions from IRST too, but it would be locked into only 1 aircraft.

E.g Leonardo Pirate IRST

 

[Latebra Factum]

It depends. If the RCS of Su-30 is 10 square meter and the detection range of the APG-83 for a target with an RCS of 1 square meter is 120km as one of the sources claim, the detection range for SU-30 is over 200km.

the 200 km is for the Irbis-E , the Su-30 MKA uses an NO11M PESA radar

 

[Radonsider]

the 200 km is for the Irbis-E , the Su-30 MKA uses an NO11M PESA radar

No, he is talking about detecting the Su-30

 

[TheInsider]

IRST efficiency depends on atmospheric conditions and enemy IR signature. There are special coatings that are similar to RAM coatings that reduce IR signatures of the fighter body. There are techniques in use with jet engines that reduce the IR signature exhaust cooling with cooling air, or a special coolant is one of them.

 

[Latebra Factum]

No, he is talking about detecting the Su-30

oh , the Irbis-E has 200 km (depends if it's head-on or tail-on) , the NO11M has about 140 km for a closing target , and for a receiding target : 92 km, additionaly the NO11M is PESA so yeah

 

[Latebra Factum]

IRST efficiency depends on atmospheric conditions and enemy IR signature. There are special coatings that are similar to RAM coatings that reduce IR signatures of the fighter body. There are techniques in use with jet engines that reduce the IR signature exhaust cooling with cooling air, or a special coolant is one of them.

maybe exhaust baffles can reduce the IR signature like in the F-22 Raptor or the B-2

 

[Radonsider]

maybe exhaust baffles can reduce the IR signature like in the F-22 Raptor or the B-2

Well it can if we think of rear aspect but not much for frontal, actually you wont have much chance frontally if you are going at higher speeds than ~0.9 mach as air friction would cause the skin to heat up.

 

[Latebra Factum]

Well it can if we think of rear aspect but not much for frontal, actually you wont have much chance frontally if you are going at higher speeds than ~0.9 mach as air friction would cause the skin to heat up.

that's true , air friction would increase the IR signature , but there are some special coatings that absorbs the heat , thus making it more stealthy