TR F-16 Özgür | Hürkuş - Fighter Trainer Aircraft Projects

I_Love_F16

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Light attack version will be good option to have against terrorist, it could take some flight time off from our jets that is being used in that role.

A better option would be to use UCAV’s. No valuable pilot needed and cheaper overall.
 

Saithan

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That tweet doesn't say anything close to that though. It just says Özgür will be more advanced than Viper and that's it.
It says TAF F16 block 30/40/50 to be modernized with özgür/özgür-2

then they add it’ll be more advanced thatn Viper.

and since we don’t have any block more advanced than viper it means all of them
 

boredaf

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It says TAF F16 block 30/40/50 to be modernized with özgür/özgür-2

then they add it’ll be more advanced thatn Viper.

and since we don’t have any block more advanced than viper it means all of them
You said "Woah F16 including viper to be modernized with Özgür." it could easily be interpreted as "we'll upgrade even F-16 Viper with Özgür program if we get them" and it does sound like that from your phrasing, and that is why I clarified that tweet didn't have anything like that.
 

Yasar_TR

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You said "Woah F16 including viper to be modernized with Özgür." it could easily be interpreted as "we'll upgrade even F-16 Viper with Özgür program if we get them" and it does sound like that from your phrasing, and that is why I clarified that tweet didn't have anything like that.
Quote:
The F-16's official name is "Fighting Falcon", but "Viper" is commonly used by its pilots and crews, due to a perceived resemblance to a viper snake as well as the Colonial Viper starfighter on Battlestar Galactica which aired at the time the F-16 entered service.
Unquote.

Viper is the general name given to the F16 planes by the US pilots. Also the first “aggressor” version of F16s built for the Navy were called Viper.

But LM called the latest version of F16 block 70 planes Viper too. Hence the confusion in nomenclature.

 

Saithan

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I was not aware that block 70 were called viper. I've only ever heard of them as block 70. since we didn't have any block 70 it wasn't a problem for me to differentiate.
 

Ravager

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I wouldn't say much ..but depending on how well you are faring , latest global political situation , china beligerences and who would be the next president .


Some suprises could be happening ..
 

Bogeyman 

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Radonsider

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20231111_143458.png


MURAD radar (during assembly?)

@moz68k would like to hear an explanation of Safir Zekâ, I don't know much about software stuff
 

DBdev

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If we had a couple of hurjet fleets we could have saved hundreds of thousands of precious F-16 flight hours, and spend that time towards roles that can't be fulfilled by a light fighter. Sure, it's small and can't carry as much but hürjets can take over %80 of the peacetime duties of the F-16s especially if it has AESA on board.

Same goes for KAAN. Why use a 5th gen for routine mundane missions unless it's to gain experience or something.
I am against buying new F-16s, a bit modernizing what we have is one thing but they are not good investments for the future IMHO. They have one of the biggest RCS among NATO 4th gen jet fighters. 4 times the Rafale and Eurofighter.

I would rather lower the political tensions until we have enough KAANs as mini AWACS command centers with BURFIS, each controlling several American Raider level perfected stealth ANKA-3s as missile mules from 50 km behind. Our current concept is similar, it relies on E-7ts and F-16s, alas they would be easy prey for Greece, considering very long range of Meteor. Both for air superiority and deep strike operations I believe this combination could best Greek, Israeli etc. F-35s. IF stealth part is done right.

And Akinci with Murad AESA (SAR) for peacetime routine anti terror, mobile air radar patrolling operations. I am also very skeptical about Kizilelma AI efforts. Kizilelma doesn't have 360 sensors to be aware of it's surroundings. And 360 AESA isn't something it's power plant can handle. Perhaps 3D DAS with flawless AI coding could be good enough to avoid incoming meteors but I highly doubt that.

I think America is working on a similar concept called loyal-wingman. Cheap sacrificial yet stealthy drones go first in swarms and keep manned fighter jet as far as possible from the actual fight.
loyal-wingman.png

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...for-air-force-loyal-wingman-drone-coming-soon
 
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Spitfire9

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Regarding supply of F-16 kit, Turkiye's agreement to Sweden joining NATO (after passing through Turkish parliamentary bureaucracy) may persuade the US Congress to approve. Or it may not. I read that Erdogan does not see Hamas as a terrorist body and I hear (in translation) that he sees Israel as a terrorist body (source follows)

What are the chances of US approving the F-16 deal after the brutal Hamas attack and the brutal Israeli response? Definitely worse than before October 7. Possibly much, much worse in view of the linked speech by Erdogan.

I think that Turkiye should pursue KAAN development as fast as it can with all the resources it can call on - internal and external. It may be that relations with the US deteriorate in the next few months, supply of US products is blocked and use of US intellectual property denied.
 
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Zafer

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Regarding supply of F-16 kit, Turkiye's agreement to Sweden joining NATO (after passing through Turkish parliamentary bureaucracy) may persuade the US Congress to approve. Or it may not. I read that Erdogan does not see Hamas as a terrorist body and I hear (in translation) that he sees Israel as a terrorist body (source follows)

What are the chances of US approving the F-16 deal after the brutal Hamas attack and the brutal Israeli response? Definitely worse than before October 7. Possibly much, much worse in view of the linked speech by Erdogan.

I think that Turkiye should pursue KAAN development as fast as it can with all the resources it can call on - internal and external. It may be that relations with the US deteriorate in the next few months, supply of US products is blocked and use of US intellectual property denied.
That's what we are doing, mostly internally.
 

Spitfire9

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Really getting tired of all the fighter purchase initiatives that are sure to be rejected. We have 200+ well-maintained 4th generation fighters. That is more than almost anyone. The Ozgur modernization program is in progress and will update almost all of the fleet to Viper level by 2030. That ought to be enough. Any new jets we buy won't come much earlier than 2030, especially if manufactured by slow Europeans.

I can understand checking possibilities in general terms but when you constantly ask for fighters, you create a perception of weakness and people talk about Turkey's "aging fleet." When surrounded by irrational actors as we are, perceptions matter.
If there are 200 serviceable jets (that will remain serviceable for several more years), what is the fuss about? Will it be a problem if KAAN does not enter service for another 10 years and 200 x F-16 can be replaced 2034-2044? The ones updated in the modernisation programme will not need retiring for a long time, will they?
 

Lool

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That's something that occurred to me as well. Maybe they don't actually want to buy aircraft but they are putting the idea forward as a focus point for all the anti-Turkish villainous energy that would otherwise go toward something more damaging. But still, projecting military weakness is not a good thing in Middle East. We could defeat any undeterred adversary in this neighborhood but it would cost us. Sun Tzu also said it's best to win without fighting.
This is exactly the case
Do you seriously believe that Erdogan doesnt know that Germany will block the offer? For how many years did Turkey suffer from the German submarine type 214 program?

Erdogan is only doing that to spread the idea that KAAN's prospects are still unclear and that they need potential alternatives..... this is mainly done to prevent any sudden Western embargo that may push the program 2-3 years behind the schedule.... just watch how all those deals get thrown to the dustbin the moment KAAN flies and Europe start to hit their heads on the wall..... BTW, many in Europe still believe that Turkey doesnt have the capability to make KAAN fly or to even manufacure fully functioning jets but the joke is on them since they will be weeping soon
 

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