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TR F-16 Özgür | Hürkuş - Fighter Trainer Aircraft Projects

Afif

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I was thinking about wing-loong hunting unmanned spitfires back in the summer of 22'. Chinese or any other nation will at some point figure out the tb-2 magic formula and out-produce us. Then people will look for countermeasures.

Ground based defence against drones like tb-2 is way more expensive than it should be.

Nope, all modern MRSAM systems are quite economical against target like TB-2.
1 million dollars interceptor against 5 millions dollars UAV. (Estimated cost of 1 TB-2 without accociated systems)
 

YeşilVatan

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Nope, all modern MRSAM systems are quite economical against target like TB-2.
1 million dollars interceptor against 5 millions dollars UAV. (Estimated cost of 1 TB-2 without accociated systems)
I think the math becomes much more acceptable when you take reusability into account. And realistically, how many of those would you need? Maybe 4-5 aircraft to down tens of tb-2 class MALE UCAVs. It forces the enemy to come up with countermeasures, and it's cheap.
 

boredaf

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I think the math becomes much more acceptable when you take reusability into account. And realistically, how many of those would you need? Maybe 4-5 aircraft to down tens of tb-2 class MALE UCAVs. It forces the enemy to come up with countermeasures, and it's cheap.
The "countermeasure" for that is already available to us in the form of Sungur, it is light enough, with its launcher and everything, to be used from any drone we have.

Imo, if any branch of military buys Hürkuş in light attack configuration, it won't be the airforce, it'll be the army. It can be more or less used in almost every situation an attack helicopter can be used, with munition options that'll give it even more firepower that can be launched from a greater distance.
 

Afif

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It can be more or less used in almost every situation an attack helicopter can be used, with munition options that'll give it even more firepower that can be launched from a greater distance.

I have to disagree with that. Fixed wing platforms cannot 'more or less' fullfil the role of dedicated attack recconaissance helicopters. Fixed wing CAS aircraft and attack Recconaissance helicopters has a different mission set and TTP (tactics, techniques and procedures)
 

UkroTurk

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There's nothing that can't be improved, and there's certainly room for 600 -700 km/h with the turboprobs.
I think ANKA-3 is not agile so Acceleration, rate of climb are important for light attack aircraft,i agree.. but:
Does unmanned or manned Hürkuş-C need such a rapid speed for their duties? (while manned Hürkuş cruise speed 350kmh, also unmanned ANKA-3 cruise speed will be around 350-400kmh. ). Range/ Flight altitude/mission Parameters should be combined. Please Remember TB2, Aksungur have 150kmh cruise speed.

600-700kmh cruise speed is optimum even for Hürjet ( subject to altitude).
Low-low missions




Could Su-25 or A-10 engage on MBT , artillery, infantries at 600 kmh ?

Unmanned Hürkuş-C would be great alternative for Su-25 or A-10.
 
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boredaf

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I have to disagree with that. Fixed wing platforms cannot 'more or less' fullfil the role of dedicated attack recconaissance helicopters. Fixed wing CAS aircraft and attack Recconaissance helicopters has a different mission set and TTP (tactics, techniques and procedures)
Tell that to US SOCOM, they are planning to buy fixed wing turbo prop planes to use as CAS and recon aircraft. I'm not saying they would replace the helicopters, or have exactly the same missions, but they can still be used by the army the way they use helicopters.
 

boredaf

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Could Su-25 or A-10 engage on MBT , artillery, infantries at 600 kmh ?

Unmanned Hürkuş-C would be great alternative for Su-25 or A-10.
It would be shot down by the first manpad it comes across, just as 30+ Su-25s that have been shot down by Ukrainians.
 

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Everything is obselete when you think the casualties. Amateur people think in that way. But armies all over the world are still requesting tanks, aifvs, mlrs, howitzers, aircrafts, choppers, ships etc. War means big casualties for even winners. Everyone must learn to live with this fact.
 

boredaf

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So Aircrafts are absolute!!!
You're reaching so far even Dhalsim would be jealous. But thinking a turboprop plane can just shoot at infantry or artillery like that is naïve. When even the jets that engage from farther away are getting shot down a plane that is slower and has to get closer to use its cannons has very little survival chance against a regular army that uses manpads. It is waste of resources for the weird fetish of planes shooting cannons when close air support is done with missiles in long range, as long as you're against anyone that is better equipped than a terrorist with an AK.
 

boredaf

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Everything is obselete when you think the casualties. Amateur people think in that way. But armies all over the world are still requesting tanks, aifvs, mlrs, howitzers, aircrafts, choppers, ships etc. War means big casualties for even winners. Everyone must learn to live with this fact.
We are talking about real life, not a computer game. Every loss is not only a loss of qualified pilots, which costs a lot of money and time to train, but also a waste of resources. War means casualties yes but it also means you also do everything in your power to limit those casualties. Not only do we not have the luxury of throwing lives and equipment away like Russia is doing in Ukraine, but also I fucking hope people in charge are smarter than that.
 

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So what are you suggesting?
If we absolutely have to use Hürkuş against a regular army, which we wouldn't, we simply give it longer range munitions to keep it at least out of the range of manpads to increase its survivability. Tolun has about a 100 kms of range and weighs around 140 kgs for example. We have guidance kits for MK-81 bombs, we have Mam-T and soon will have IHA-230 and IHA-122.
 

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We are talking about real life, not a computer game. Every loss is not only a loss of qualified pilots, which costs a lot of money and time to train, but also a waste of resources. War means casualties yes but it also means you also do everything in your power to limit those casualties. Not only do we not have the luxury of throwing lives and equipment away like Russia is doing in Ukraine, but also I fucking hope people in charge are smarter than that.

While i understand your concern and agree with most of it ...the present tech still couldn't compensate on the benefits of direct situational awareness ...
Just take a look at merkava's fates in gaza . Too much dependency on tech make them almost blind to the real situational challenges on the ground . While it's not an apple to orange comparison... The challenges aee real ..
There is always something to give and trade and it won't come cheaply


☕☕
 

KhanOfEurasia

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If we absolutely have to use Hürkuş against a regular army, which we wouldn't, we simply give it longer range munitions to keep it at least out of the range of manpads to increase its survivability. Tolun has about a 100 kms of range and weighs around 140 kgs for example. We have guidance kits for MK-81 bombs, we have Mam-T and soon will have IHA-230 and IHA-122.

We need Hürkus not as an Bomb Truck, this Job will do the Drones, a way more effective than Hürkus could do. Hürkus will be usefull to fight Terrorists which crossed the turkish Border and also for Defence against slow flying Drones.
 

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Hürkuş should primarily serve as a platform that meets the needs of the main objectives that led to the emergence of the program, and should serve our air force and other force commands in need with the variants that are currently being prepared.

However, this is a domestic aviation program. The institutions and teams that created and preparing the aircraft are entirely national resources. All critical systems are the result of indigenous R&D or adapted systems.

This program should continue to evolve and expand with experimental side projects. I believe that the program should explore its potential through experimental projects, if not as a priority. Unmanned systems and autonomous vehicles are our strongest area, especially in the foreign market. Hürkuş is a system that has achieved export success without serving in our own forces yet. An experimental project that will combine these two ends can be a great industrial gain. I also believe, like many of our friends, that it can be designed as a solution that can be included in our own military inventory.
 

UkroTurk

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Do Today's Armies need "The use of aircraft in the close air support of ground forces"?

İf the answer is yes , next question which type of aircraft could fulfill this role?


Manned Attack helicopters?
Manned light attack aircrafts?
Unmanned drones?

 
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zio

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We should make 20mm gun pod for Hürjet,Italians made for their planes.Unmanned drones are slow for rapid response you have to be supersonic
 

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We want also unmanned Hürkuş-C!!!!

I adore Unmanned Hürjet 😍

Great work 🙏.
Unmanned Hürkuş-C.
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TEI-10000 Powered Hürjet UAV.
kk.png
 
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