TR Turkiye's F-35 Project and Discussions

[the]

Yeah but Turkey also had a industrial participation in the F-35 programm worth ~ $12 billion. I anyways wanted that Turkey cancels F-35A orders and instead goes for F-35B and cash the rest.

After trashing so many Russian SAM with UCAV's alone, i think it was also a big mistake to buy S-400, i'd rather see the $2.5 billion flowing into national air defence projects.

Whilst it would be more appropriate to aqquire the F35B variant I doubt anything will happen unless the s400 problem is solved. Maybe send/sell them to Azerbaijan or any Turkic country that wants it. Or place them in Libya, that way the system cannot "interfere" or "collect data" from F35s.

 

[Ecderha]

Yeah but Turkey also had a industrial participation in the F-35 programm worth ~ $12 billion. I anyways wanted that Turkey cancels F-35A orders and instead goes for F-35B and cash the rest.

After trashing so many Russian SAM with UCAV's alone, i think it was also a big mistake to buy S-400, i'd rather see the $2.5 billion flowing into national air defence projects.

It is easy to say that -> was a mistake when you are in present/future days and looking back to past with info you got from wars (Syria,Libya,Karabah), that "buying of S-400 is mistake"!

We are lucky that Turkiye have and tried own UCAV platforms against other/enemy systems which we don't know actually how they will react.
In realty how things/strategy can go we can only guess. We can watch what results will be and get data/feedback.

We able to get the feedbacks from our strategy, UCAV platforms and most impotant is that the engineers able to adapt quickly and update the platform accordingly with tactic.The result is that we gain more, got answers of the questions which we did't know. We got more info allowing us to understand missing things.

But back then Turkiye did not have that information about Russian platforms.
You missing the situation in which lead Turkiye to buy S-400 system. It was hostile actions of USA and there plans to side with PKK. They did it and still doing it against Turkiye.
It was obvious that those actions of USA want Turkiye to go in chaos.
====================================================================================================


I am trying to say that following events which went in below sequence decide that Turkiye need to have a equipment to counter other hostile side. People keep talking about end results ( there were things happened before that leading to that decission )
So the sequence of events
1. Syrian people raise against dictator Assad and World only watched

2. Syrian civil war trigger events going outside of Syria boarders, which lead to outsiders coming in Syria and start using the situation
3. Turkiye start discussing matter with NATO, EU, USA (Allies). Which back then Turkiye mind was that Allies are reliable and actions will be taken as alliance all together

4. Syria Assad lost "FIRST battle in the War" against own people. It was clear for him that his end is coming.
5. Russia came to Syria safe Assad. NATO allies came to Turkiye according to discussed decisions taken, but first frictions started by arrived personals from Germany and USA

6. USA media mostly back then started payed campaign against Turkiye. By trying to build bad profile, they did create following lies ( Turkiye steal Syrian oil, Turkiye support ISIS, Turk army soldiers fighting inside Syria so on. Turkiye officials had to respond and they start openly to answer on those lies made by media. Like those are lies and it is better to come here in Turkiye and see it

7. USA, UK, France army soldiers were deployed in Syria to apply own plan. Other side Russia able to turn the tide "the SECOND battle of War" happend. Some things changed for Turkiye -> Parties become 3 ( Russians, USA and Turkiye )

8. Big pressure build up mostly for Turkiye. Things goes fast:
-> Syrian people running out of Syria becoming refugee in millions
-> Syrian citizens of ethnic Turks become the primary targets for Assad army, Russians, PKK and USA CIA
-> Friction in NATO against Turkiye become systematic. It is become obvious for Turkiye that allies have other plans ( German fighter plains which regularly fly each day to get Intel was caught by Turks that Germans relay Intel to PKK. Other party USA-CIA regularly organize, supply with weapons and leading PKK with target attacks. Russians keep bombing civilian, but it is become clear that they do bomb most of time ethnic Turks. Nobody fighting ISIS , but media are focused on them.

9. Suicide Bomb attacks in Turkiye from foreigner persons !!! USA-CIA support of PKK switched with new phase of action -> start civilian war in Sought-East territory of Turkiye. Each week there were funerals openly in media that all can see what is going. PKK victims -> civilians, children's, police officers, ex-policeman or just worker doing his job in that city. Dead bodies keep coming in some days by 10-20 ppl and did not stop whole year (do you understand the issue here) all this from Sought-East territory of Turkiye where USA supported PKK become brutal and trying hard to increase size of civilian war which (outsiders) startered.

10. Turkiye officials understand that Turkiye is the target and Allies are the main source of driving this plan, Russian understand that and use the situation against Turkiye (Russian become aggressive against Turkiye. Russia switching focus on attacks on Turkish boarder)

11.True faces
- Allies openly confront and with take actions against Turkiye ( embargoes on anything which is need from Turkiye. Openly support of PKK from Allies. Allied media goes crazy with mass trolling and lies against Turkiye. Huge USA army of soldiers in Syria clearly came to defending PKK, but didn't came for Turkiye. France companies supply PKK with materials for building strategic bunkers for future war against Turkiye. Germans, Hollands army leaving Turkiye )
- Deads toll still coming each day/week for more then a year from partial civilian war which going and lead be PKK become unacceptable
- Russian does not accepted/took Turkiye warnings as seriously matter against territory violations. ->Russian fighter was shot down

12. Turkiye start preparing for big War. Action need to be made against all parties in order to save Turkiye independence

13.Turkiye Army,MIT, Politicians goes with actions
-Army start fight back in Sought-East part of Turkiye where civilian war was going on - result PKK army was destroyed and pushed back to Syria
-Procurement of equipment need against all hostile parties was taken -> UAV and new Turk tech was used against Assad coalition. S400 was bought against USA as counter measure that USA will attack Turkiye (it is not fiction it was real thing ) -> Civil war - fail -> the coup -Fail - build boarder in Syria against Turkiye side of boarder to support,defend PKK and later of may be USA army invention as a front - fail because Turkiye army start kicking and USA was not prepared yet so they back off but left them with pain of losers


I write all because all of you forget how is started and what actions were take against Turkiye and Turkiye was cornered and left alone. Everything which Turkiye did
LEAD to WIN or at least Assad dictator and coalition (Russia,Iran) and so called NATO-Ally (USA,Germany,Holland,France and their pupped Saudi Arabia, United arab emirats,Greece,PKK ) EPIC failed on each stages they are in STAND OFF mode. In other words they were kicked hard.

Next thing which happened is that Turkiye showed and goes outside of his Territory because It happened that way -> Libya late Karabah result is that all above parties were kicked again


In present days it is so open and obvious that USA with new president it trying to continue the same planed path for punishing Turkiye. EU is still thinking what will be next step for them they take some damage (UK left UE, corona happens, Turkiye supply some important and need it products for EU if they go fruther against Turkiye it is no clear what will happen ). About Russia they lost against Turk army, tech,place of fights and running out of money, who will pay for all of that which happened? and i don't to forget about refuges they are fucked big time <- Humanity, Freedom, Help all those words was used over and over again LOUDLY from west but they keep hiding and misleading ppl. it is BIG time loss for west ppl and west major Institutions (UN, Haga, leading media CNN,Reuters,BBC,EU news etc.)
We all saw the real face/side of west -> Lying, Jealousy, Hate, Old history related and Biased behaviors, and the last Keep playing "I did't aware of this" but infact they planed and played all of this pretty good, but lose

 

[Bogeyman]

An engine shortage is the newest problem to hit the F-35 enterprise​

The F-35 joint strike fighter program is grappling with a shortage of the jet’s Pratt & Whitney F135 engine, and it could be months before the situation starts to improve, a defense official said Friday.
The problem, according to the F-35 joint program office, is twofold. First, the F135 Heavy Maintenance Center at Tinker Air Force Base, Okla., has not been able to process engines through scheduled depot maintenance as quickly as projected.
Second, maintainers are discovering “premature distress of rotor blade coatings” in a “small number” of engine power modules, creating more repair work and contributing to the backlog.
A defense official who spoke to Defense News on background called the issues a “serious readiness problem.” By 2022, roughly 5 to 6 percent of the F-35 fleet could be without engines due to scheduled depot maintenance as well as unscheduled engine removals caused by F135s in need of repair.
Leaders hope that corrective actions will keep the program from exceeding that threshold, but the defense official confirmed that as many as 20 percent of F-35s could be impacted by the engine shortage if those fixes do not work and no further action is taken.
In January, Ellen Lord — then the Pentagon’s top acquisition official — told reporters that the engine problems were one of the main maintenance issues found to degrade F-35 mission capable rates, which sat at 69 percent last month.
As a result of the engine problems, the Air Force has cut eight performances from the F-35 demonstration team’s 2021 schedule so as not to add onto the existing maintenance backlog, Bloomberg reported on Feb. 10.

According to the F-35 program office, the Defense Department first noticed signs of the engine shortage issue in early 2020. At the end of the summer, the department received an update that made clear that the F135 depot would not be able to process 60 engine power modules a year, as was previously expected, the defense official said.
Myriad factors contributed to the slowdown, including “an increase in the work scope that they were seeing within as they tore down the engine, the unavailability of tech data, some of the engineering disposition wait time, the lack of available support equipment and …depot workforce proficiency,” the official said.
This was coupled with a “higher preponderance” of degradation to the heat protective coating applied to the blades of the F135 power module.
In order to tackle the maintenance backlog, the Air Force is adding a second shift at the F135 Heavy Maintenance Center, which should be up and running by June, the official said.
The F-35 program office has already contracted with Pratt & Whitney for additional power module repair support, and its working with the contractor to obtain more training, support equipment and technical data.
“What we want to shoot for is it turning out power modules at about 122 days. We’re a little over 200 days today,” the official said.
Pratt & Whitney, a subsidiary of Raytheon Technologies, also introduced a hardware modification to engine blades in spring 2020 that is being incorporated in the production line and in engines going through sustainment, the company said in a statement.
“We continue to work closely with the F-35 Joint Program Office, the services, and the Oklahoma City-Air Logistics Complex to increase enterprise capacity across the F135 Maintenance, Repair, Overhaul & Upgrade network,” the company said. “P&W also recognizes the inherent challenges that the F135 program’s sustainment strategy is presenting, and continues to collaborate with the JPO and services to align on solutions to meet their needs.”
The Air Force is hosting a Feb. 17 summit at Tinker AFB where F-35 commanders will be able to discuss the program, including whether further short-term steps should be taken to ameliorate the F135 power module problem, but the defense official declined to detail what additional actions are possible.
At the very least, good news is on the horizon for solving ongoing issues with F-35 canopies, a separate problem that Lord cited as another major driver of unscheduled maintenance.
In 2019, the F-35 joint program office told Defense News that the problem revolves around transparency delamination, when the coatings of the canopy begin to peel from the base. When the issue occurs, the aircraft are temporarily taken out of service until its canopy is replaced.
However, GKN Aerospace — which produces canopy transparencies for all F-35 variants — was struggling to produce enough canopies to meet demand, leaving dozens of aircraft on the flight line awaiting replacements.
According to the defense official, there may be some relief to that problem in the near future. The program office recently added a second canopy manufacturer to the F-35′s supply chain: PPG Aerospace, which will begin producing F-35 canopy transparencies in May.

An engine shortage is the newest problem to hit the F-35 enterprise

By 2022, five to six percent of the F-35 fleet could be without engines, a defense official said.

www.defensenews.com

 

[Test7]

Turkey lobbies to get back in F-35 program​

The Turkish defense industry has hired one of Washington’s most prestigious law firms to try to remain in the F-35 jet fighter program after the Donald Trump administration said it would kick Turkey out two years ago over its purchase of Russian air defense systems.

Ankara-based SSTEK Savunma Sanayi Teknolojiler (Defense Industry Technologies) has hired Arnold & Porter for $750,000 for strategic advice and outreach to US commercial partners and stakeholders in the program. The contract was effective Feb. 1 and lasts six months.

SSTEK is wholly owned by the Presidency of Defense Industries (SSB), the government office that manages Turkey’s defense industry.

Arnold & Porter will “advise on a strategy for the SSB and Turkish contractors to remain within the Joint Strike Fighter Program, taking into consideration and addressing the complex geopolitical and commercial factors at play,” the firm’s lobbying filing states.
The firm will also “undertake a targeted outreach to the US commercial partners and stakeholders within the JSF Program to sound out and understand their interests with regard to SSB’s continued involvement as a strategic ally and valued partner in the JSF Program,” the filing states. Arnold & Porter also commits to “continually monitor export controls and trade sanctions … that may be relevant and explain any said sanctions.”

The Trump White House announced in July 2019 that it had removed Turkey from the multi-nation F-35 program, although the Pentagon has since clarified that it will continue to depend on Turkish defense contractors for key components through next year. The SSB faces its own set of challenges, with then-Secretary of State Mike Pompeo announcing sanctions against the agency in December under the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) over its cooperation with Rosoboronexport, Russia’s main arms export entity.

Arnold & Porter senior international policy adviser Miomir Zuzul, a former member of Parliament in Croatia and former ambassador to the United States and the United Nations, is registered to lobby on the contract. Joining him are firm partner Raul Herrera, a former general counsel to the Inter-American Investment Corporation, and senior counsel L. Charles Landgraf.

SSTEK and Arnold & Porter did not respond to requests for comment.

Ozgur Eksi, the founder and editor in chief of Turkish defense news publication Turdef.com, said there was little to no overlap between SSTEK’s affiliates and the F-35 program, suggesting that having the company sign the contract could be a way for the SSB to circumvent US restrictions on its activities. He said President Recep Tayyip Erdogan‘s administration is committed to re-entering the program.

“Keeping Turkey in the program is definitely one of the priorities of the Turkish government,” Eksi said. “SSB keeps repeating that they are loyal to their international commitments.”

According to Bloomberg, 10 Turkish companies were on track to make about $12 billion in F-35 parts, including the center fuselage produced by Turkish Aerospace Industries, before the Pentagon rescinded plans to sell 100 of the fifth-generation stealth fighters to Turkey following the NATO member’s purchase of Russia’s S-400 anti-missile system, which the US says threatens NATO defenses. Turkish Aerospace Industries is separately lobbying to lift a congressional hold on its sale of attack helicopters to Pakistan.

Eksi said getting booted out of the program was a huge blow to Turkish defense contractors such as missile-maker Roketsan, which could tout its work with US defense giant Lockheed Martin on F-35 armaments to sell its wares to clients around the world.

“Roketsan was marketing its product to other candidate countries,” he said. “Once Turkey is outside [the partnership] air forces know that Rokestan will receive no further upgrades or help from the United States. So what’s the purpose of buying missiles from Turkey when Turkey’s not involved in the aircraft?”

Source: Turkish Presidency of Defense Industries (SSB) – 2018

Turkey’s removal from the program has bipartisan support in Congress, which has also pressed the executive branch to target Ankara under US sanctions against Russia over its interference in the 2016 US election and its intervention in Ukraine and Syria. Still, Eksi said Ankara saw some hope for better relations with the Joe Biden administration, pointing to a recent press briefing by US Ambassador to Turkey David Satterfield in which he told Turkish media that the US still hopes “that the issue of S-400 can be resolved.”

“The S-400 issue regrettably compelled the previous US administration to execute US law and impose sanctions under the CAATSA legislation,” Satterfield reportedly said. “But we targeted on that sanction very precisely. We did not aim at affecting the Turkish defense sector as a whole, but rather specific licenses to SSB.”

Still, Turkey’s refusal to abandon the S-400 and bipartisan US ire against Ankara make getting back into the F-35 a tough sell. In a nod to the long odds of success, the contract with Arnold & Porter specifies that the firm “does not make any promises or guarantees” about the outcome.

“If the matter does not reach a successful conclusion, for any reason, SSTEK shall still be responsible for all fees and disbursements charged by the
Firm under the terms of this Agreement.”

Turkey lobbies to get back in F-35 program - Foreign Lobby

The Turkish defense industry has hired one of Washington’s most prestigious law firms to try to remain in the F-35 jet fighter program after the Donald Trump administration said it would kick Turkey out two years ago over its purchase of Russian air defense systems. Ankara-based SSTEK Savunma...

www.foreignlobby.com

 

[Huelague]

United States of Lobbyists! Laughable.

 

[Bogeyman]

The U.S. Air Force Just Admitted The F-35 Stealth Fighter Has Failed​

The U.S. Air Force’s top officer wants the service to develop an affordable, lightweight fighter to replace hundreds of Cold War-vintage F-16s and complement a small fleet of sophisticated—but costly and unreliable—stealth fighters.

The result would be a high-low mix of expensive “fifth-generation” F-22s and F-35s and inexpensive “fifth-generation-minus” jets, explained Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Charles Brown Jr.

If that plan sounds familiar, it’s because the Air Force a generation ago launched development of an affordable, lightweight fighter to replace hundreds of Cold War-vintage F-16s and complement a small future fleet of sophisticated—but costly and unreliable—stealth fighters.

But over 20 years of R&D, that lightweight replacement fighter got heavier and more expensive as the Air Force and lead contractor Lockheed Martin LMT +1.7% packed it with more and more new technology.

Yes, we’re talking about the F-35. The 25-ton stealth warplane has become the very problem it was supposed to solve. And now America needs a new fighter to solve that F-35 problem, officials said.

With a sticker price of around $100 million per plane, including the engine, the F-35 is expensive. While stealthy and brimming with high-tech sensors, it’s also maintenance-intensive, buggy and unreliable. “The F-35 is not a low-cost, lightweight fighter,” said Dan Ward, a former Air Force program manager and the author of popular business books including The Simplicity Cycle.

The F-35 is a Ferrari, Brown told reporters last Wednesday. “You don’t drive your Ferrari to work every day, you only drive it on Sundays. This is our ‘high end’ [fighter], we want to make sure we don’t use it all for the low-end fight.”

“I want to moderate how much we’re using those aircraft,” Brown said.

Hence the need for a new low-end fighter to pick up the slack in day-to-day operations. Today, the Air Force’s roughly 1,000 F-16s meet that need. But the flying branch hasn’t bought a new F-16 from Lockheed since 2001. The F-16s are old.

In his last interview before leaving his post in January, Will Roper, the Air Force’s top acquisition official, floated the idea of new F-16 orders. But Brown shot down the idea, saying he doesn’t want more of the classic planes.

The 17-ton, non-stealthy F-16 is too difficult to upgrade with the latest software, Brown explained. Instead of ordering fresh F-16s, he said, the Air Force should initiate a “clean-sheet design” for a new low-end fighter.

Brown’s comments are a tacit admission that the F-35 has failed. As conceived in the 1990s, the program was supposed to produce thousands of fighters to displace almost all of the existing tactical warplanes in the inventories of the Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps.

The Air Force alone wanted nearly 1,800 F-35s to replace aging F-16s and A-10s and constitute the low end of a low-high fighter mix, with 180 twin-engine F-22s making up the high end.

But the Air Force and Lockheed baked failure into the F-35’s very concept. “They tried to make the F-35 do too much,” said Dan Grazier, an analyst with the Project on Government Oversight in Washington, D.C.

There’s a small-wing version for land-based operations, a big-wing version for the Navy’s catapult-equipped aircraft carriers and, for the small-deck assault ships the Marines ride in, a vertical-landing model with a downward-blasting lift engine.

The complexity added cost. Rising costs imposed delays. Delays gave developers more time to add yet more complexity to the design. Those additions added more cost. Those costs resulted in more delays. So on and so forth.

Fifteen years after the F-35’s first flight, the Air Force has just 250 of the jets. Now the service is signaling possible cuts to the program. It’s not for no reason that Brown has begun characterizing the F-35 as a boutique, high-end fighter in the class of the F-22. The Air Force ended F-22 production after completing just 195 copies.

“The F-35 is approaching a crossroads,” Grazier said.

Pentagon leaders have hinted that, as part of the U.S. military’s shift in focus toward peer threats—that is, Russia and China—the Navy and Air Force might get bigger shares of the U.S. military’s roughly $700-billion annual budget. All at the Army’s expense.

“If we’re going to pull the trigger on a new fighter, now’s probably the time,” Grazier said. The Air Force could end F-35 production after just a few hundred examples and redirect tens of billions of dollars to a new fighter program.

But it’s an open question whether the Air Force will ever succeed in developing a light, cheap fighter. The new low-end jet could suffer the same fate as the last low-end jet—the F-35—and steadily gain weight, complexity and cost until it becomes, well, a high-end jet.

If that happens, as it’s happened before, then some future Air Force chief of staff might tell reporters—in, say, the year 2041—that the new F-36 is a Ferrari and you don’t drive your Ferrari to work every day.

To finally replace its 60-year-old F-16s, this future general might say, the Air Force should develop an affordable, lightweight fighter.

The U.S. Air Force Just Admitted The F-35 Stealth Fighter Has Failed

The U.S. Air Force’s chief of staff wants the service to develop an affordable, lightweight fighter to replace hundreds of aging F-16s and complement a small fleet of sophisticated F-35 stealth fighters. But an affordable, lightweight fighter is exactly what the F-35 was first conceived to be.

www.forbes.com

The bottom line is that the US has buried the F-35 program "in history".

Watch out, folks. You are now witnessing a historical moment.
@Cabatli_53 @Test7 @Combat-Master @Madokafc @Zafer @anmdt @Kartal1 @Nein2.0

 

[Ryder]

The F-35 is a Ferrari, Brown told reporters last Wednesday. “You don’t drive your Ferrari to work every day, you only drive it on Sundays. This is our ‘high end’ [fighter], we want to make sure we don’t use it all for the low-end fight.”

Damn this hits hard. F35 is nothing more than a Ferrari or a Lamborghini. In other words you cant rely on it compared to your daily driver aka F16 or the F15.

 

[reashot_xigwin]

The F-35 is a Ferrari, Brown told reporters last Wednesday. “You don’t drive your Ferrari to work every day, you only drive it on Sundays. This is our ‘high end’ [fighter], we want to make sure we don’t use it all for the low-end fight.”

Damn this hits hard. F35 is nothing more than a Ferrari or a Lamborghini. In other words you cant rely on it compared to your daily driver aka F16 or the F15.

Technically you can still drive a ferrari everyday. Is just that the F-35 production lines are still in the nascent period. With the way the US keeps ramping up production and licensing up to other countries to create parts for the plane like the Turkish TAI company before the country opted out of the JSF. The F-35 will just be another workhorse like the F-16 in just 20 years.

Also to mind the USAF are already flying a 6th gen prototype so even to the American the F-35 will soon be just another Honda if they continues along the path.

 

[Ryder]

Technically you can still drive a ferrari everyday. Is just that the F-35 production lines are still in the nascent period. With the way the US keeps ramping up production and licensing up to other countries to create parts for the plane like the Turkish TAI company before the country opted out of the JSF. The F-35 will just be another workhorse like the F-16 in just 20 years.

Also to mind the USAF are already flying a 6th gen prototype so even to the American the F-35 will soon be just another Honda if they continues along the path.

You cant daily drive a Ferrari you may have some who might do it but a lot of the times they drive it for a special occasion. Ferraris are not just expensive but also expensive to maintain also their reliability.

If 6th gen is coming that is just going to make the F35 even more obsolete as everybody wants the new stuff.

F35 is not a bad plane but it is a victim of its own makers who touted the plane as the jack of all trades. The F35 was suppose to do everything that the F16, Fa18 Hornet, F15 and the A10 was supposed to do.

Due to this the plane became more expensive and complex to develop. A lot of projects can have their plugs pulled but the F35 is just too expensive to have its plugged pulled and the consequences it will come with it for Lockheed Martin and the Us Military.

Lockheed Martin already has most politicians in their pockets due to their lobbying also how they have a big role in the Military Industrial Complex.

F35 is just too big to kill off. Will just have to see in the future where will this lead. I think F35 will now be bought in small numbers for airforces who want that advanced edge of stealth while using their workhorses.

If Turkey comes back to the F35 program I think they will opt for small numbers of the A and B while developing the TFX and using the F16.

 

[reashot_xigwin]

You cant daily drive a Ferrari you may have some who might do it but a lot of the times they drive it for a special occasion. Ferraris are not just expensive but also expensive to maintain also their reliability.

If 6th gen is coming that is just going to make the F35 even more obsolete as everybody wants the new stuff.

F35 is not a bad plane but it is a victim of its own makers who touted the plane as the jack of all trades. The F35 was suppose to do everything that the F16, Fa18 Hornet, F15 and the A10 was supposed to do.

Due to this the plane became more expensive and complex to develop. A lot of projects can have their plugs pulled but the F35 is just too expensive to have its plugged pulled and the consequences it will come with it for Lockheed Martin and the Us Military.

Lockheed Martin already has most politicians in their pockets due to their lobbying also how they have a big role in the Military Industrial Complex.

F35 is just too big to kill off. Will just have to see in the future where will this lead. I think F35 will now be bought in small numbers for airforces who want that advanced edge of stealth while using their workhorses.

If Turkey comes back to the F35 program I think they will opt for small numbers of the A and B while developing the TFX and using the F16.

Ferraris are only expensive and hard to maintain because only Ferraris are the making the parts. If ferrari sub-contract their cars to every car company their prices will drop significantly. The US government knows this and why they give contracts out to almost everybody who is anybody in the plane industry to keep the price down. To keep the supply chains spread out so it will become cheaper in the long run. The F-35 were designed to be an international plane eventually replacing the falcons worldwide.

That's just economy of scale. Even when F-16 first came out it was the ferrari of its time.

 

[Ryder]

Ferraris are only expensive and hard to maintain because only Ferraris are the making the parts. If ferrari sub-contract their cars to every car company their prices will drop significantly. The US government knows this and why they give contracts out to almost everybody who is anybody in the plane industry to keep the price down. To keep the supply chains spread out so it will become cheaper in the long run. The F-35 were designed to be an international plane eventually replacing the falcons worldwide.

That's just economy of scale. Even when F-16 first came out it was the ferrari of its time.

Ferrari will lose its exclusivity if it goes by that route.

Us Air force will either build more F16s or make a new 4.5 jet. F35bis just to become more of a exlcusive thing.

F16 was not touted as the jack of all trades when it first got introduced.

 

[morningstar]

F35 is not a bad plane but it is a victim of its own makers who touted the plane as the jack of all trades.

This quoted words are the words of Pierre Sprey isn't? @Nein2.0

The same man also mocking F-15.

 

[reashot_xigwin]

Ferrari will lose its exclusivity if it goes by that route.

Us Air force will either build more F16s or make a new 4.5 jet. F35bis just to become more of a exlcusive thing.

F16 was not touted as the jack of all trades when it first got introduced.

Except we're not talking about ferrari we just use it as an example.

F-35 are meant to be a global fighter not a Lockheed monopoly. F-35 are more like Hondas except its harder to get a licensing agreement on. Besides there's a new gen plane in the making from the US to the british Tempest and the new Franco-German fighter. If the US want to make a fighter exclusive (dumb decision on the part of US foreign policy btw) shouldn't they be making the 6th gen exclusives.

So in just 20+ years we will be seeing the F-35 becoming obsolete by then but operated by many of the world air-force like the F-16 now. Which will be compatible to NATO standards or more importantly american standards.

 

[reashot_xigwin]

This quoted words are the words of Pierre Sprey isn't? @Nein2.0

The same man also mocking F-15.

Pierre sprey is seriously a Douche.

 

[Ryder]

This quoted words are the words of Pierre Sprey isn't? @Nein2.0

The same man also mocking F-15.

Nah i know that guy but I not did not quote him.

 

[morningstar]

Pierre sprey is seriously a Douche.

The good plane in his head are F-16 and A-10, which he was involved.

 

[reashot_xigwin]

Nah i know that guy but I not did not quote him.

most of the misinfo (fake news) about the JSF came from him. The guy is seriously the closest thing to an Alex Jones of the plane industry.

 

[morningstar]

Nah i know that guy but I not did not quote him.

Oh ok.. I remember him said that.

Sad to see Turkey try to be in JSF program again. Hope Erdogan's Turkey paid a lot of money to K Street Lobbyists. Good luck

 

[reashot_xigwin]

Oh ok.. I remember him said that.

Sad to see Turkey try to be in JSF program again. Hope Erdogan's Turkey paid a lot of money to K Street Lobbyists. Good luck

Turkey back in the program is a good thing for everyone. The JSF now becomes a lot cheaper. Thx guys.

 

[Bogeyman]

Air Force Boss Wants Clean-Sheet Fighter That’s Less Advanced Than F-35 To Replace F-16​

Air Force Boss Wants Clean-Sheet Fighter That’s Less Advanced Than F-35 To Replace F-16

With a “son of F-16” under study, the Air Force's original procurement plan for the F-35 is looking increasingly precarious.

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In a more detailed article, it is said that the US Air Force now wants 1050 F-35s instead of 1,763 F-35 fighter jets.