TR Turkiye's F-35 Project and Discussions

Blackeyes90

Contributor
Moderator
Messages
783
Reactions
3 2,786
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
I think we should have a dedicated thread about the F-35 project.

Here is an article from January 2020



ORLANDO, Fla., — Bringing Turkey back into Lockheed Martin’s F-35 program, following the nation’s messy multibillion-dollar deal with Russia, would be a colossal task for the Pentagon’s top weapons supplier.
“I think, politics aside, if we reintroduce Turkey into the program it would essentially be a restart,” Greg Ulmer, vice president and general manager of the F-35 program, told CNBC at the Air Warfare Symposium in Orlando, Florida.

“There would probably be some elements that are really simple and elements that are pretty difficult. I think you’d have to essentially treat it as a new start bringing them back into the program,” he added.

Last year, Turkey accepted delivery of the Russian-made S-400, a mobile surface-to-air missile system, that is said to pose a risk to the NATO alliance as well as Lockheed Martin’s F-35 stealth fighter jet. On the heels of the delivery, the United States cut Turkey’s participation in the F-35 program, America’s most expensive weapons system.
“Unfortunately, Turkey’s decision to purchase Russian S-400 air defense systems renders its continued involvement with the F-35 impossible. The F-35 cannot coexist with a Russian intelligence-collection platform that will be used to learn about its advanced capabilities,” the White House said in a statement at the time.
The move resulted in the forfeiture of Turkey’s F-35 jets and removal from the weapons program, the crown jewel in the Lockheed Martin’s portfolio.
Lockheed Martin's F-35 Lightning II fighter jet at a ceremony on

Lockheed Martin’s F-35 Lightning II fighter jet at a ceremony on
Lockheed Martin
Since Turkey’s removal, Ulmer said that the firm has felt added pressure on its margins. However, he expressed optimism about the program’s growth.

“Going forward I think there will be new opportunities because Poland, for example, I think we are going to find that they provide high quality at a lower cost and so we will take advantage of those kinds of opportunities,” he said, adding that Lockheed Martin has found other nations to replace Turkey’s contributions to the program.
In October, the Pentagon announced a $34 billion F-35 contract with Lockheed Martin, the largest contract yet for the defense company’s costly fighter program.
The deal for the delivery of 478 of the aircraft put the price tag below $80 million for an Air Force F-35, nearly a year earlier than planned.
Turkey’s messy weapons deal with the Kremlin
Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan (L) and Russia's President Vladimir Putin shake hands at a joint news conference on Syria following their meeting in Sochi, Russia.

Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan (L) and Russia’s President Vladimir Putin shake hands at a joint news conference on Syria following their meeting in Sochi, Russia.
Mikhail Metzel | TASS | Getty Images
In 2017, Ankara brokered a deal reportedly worth $2.5 billion with the Kremlin for the S-400 despite warnings from the U.S. that buying the system would come with political and economic consequences.
The S-400, the successor to Russia’s S-200 and S-300 missile systems, made its debut in 2007. Compared with U.S. systems, the Russian-made S-400 is believed to be capable of engaging a wider array of targets, at longer ranges and against multiple threats simultaneously.
In multiple efforts to deter Turkey from buying the S-400, the State Department offered in 2013 and 2017 to sell to the country Raytheon’s Patriot missile system. Ankara passed on the Patriot both times because the U.S. declined to provide a transfer of the system’s sensitive missile technology.
All the while, Turkey became a financial and manufacturing partner for Lockheed Martin’s F-35 jet, the world’s most advanced fighter.
The F-35 Lightning II production line at Lockheed Martin's facility in Fort Worth, Texas.

The F-35 Lightning II production line at Lockheed Martin’s facility in Fort Worth, Texas.
Lockheed Martin
Lockheed Martin has previously said that it took preparatory steps to limit the impact of Turkey’s removal from the program by finding other vendors to replace Ankara’s portion of the supply chain.
“Over the last several months we’ve been working to establish alternative sources of supply in the United States to quickly accommodate Turkey’s current contributions to the program,” Lockheed Martin said in a statement at the time.
Ankara faces sanctions for doing business with the Kremlin.
Under the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act, or CAATSA, which President Donald Trump signed in August 2017, Turkey could face economic sanctions for buying the Russian-made S-400 missile system.
Moscow hopes to secure another deal with Ankara for more S-400 missile systems in the first half of next year, Alexander Mikheev, the head of Russian arms exporter Rosoboronexport said in November.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Blackeyes90

Contributor
Moderator
Messages
783
Reactions
3 2,786
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
It’s official: US Air Force to buy Turkish F-35s


SKTO75P22JA4ZAKTXFN2R647WI.jpg
A mock-up of the F-35 cockpit is on display at an air show in Cigli, Turkey. (dardanellas/Getty Images)

WASHINGTON — After a year of speculation about what would happen to Turkey’s F-35s after the country was ousted from the joint strike fighter program last year, the Defense Department gave its definitive answer Monday evening in a characteristically anticlimactic manner — through its daily contract announcements.

The U.S. Air Force will officially buy eight F-35A conventional takeoff and landing jets originally built by Lockheed Martin for Turkey as part of a $862 million contract modification. The deal also contains an additional six F-35As built for the Air Force and modifications that will bring the Turkish jets in line with the U.S. configuration.

A defense official told Defense News on Tuesday that the contract modification fulfills stipulations in Congress’ fiscal year 2020 defense policy and spending bills. It “addresses the eight production Lot 14 F-35A aircraft originally planned to be delivered to Turkey in 2022-23,” and redirects those jets to the U.S. Air Force when they roll off the production line. The six other F-35As reflect aircraft added to the FY20 defense budget.



US could buy Turkey’s Russian-made S-400 under Senate proposal

The contract modification uses funding from the FY20 budget to pay for the Lot 14 jets. The Pentagon and Lockheed Martin finalized a deal for lots 12, 13 and 14 in October 2019, which set the price of an Lot 14 A model at $77.9 million per copy.

Turkey had planned to buy 100 F-35As over the course of the program, but was ejected from the program last July after accepting the S-400 air defense system from Russia after repeated warnings from U.S. officials. At that point, Turkey’s first F-35s had already rolled off the production line and its pilots and maintainers were training to fly and fix them stateside alongside U.S. personnel at Luke Air Force Base, Ariz., and Eglin Air Force Base, Fla. However, the aircraft were never officially delivered to Turkey.

Since then, the fate of Turkey’s jets had been an open question. In January, Defense One reported that 24 Turkish F-35s were in some stage of production, but top Pentagon weapons buyer Ellen Lord told reporters then that Washington and Ankara had not come to an agreement on what would happen to them.

In the FY20 version of the National Defense Authorization Act, Congress gave the Pentagon permission to spend up to $30 million to fly the first six Turkish F-35s to a location where they could be stored and preserved until the department came up with a plan for their use. Those jets, which were produced in Lots 10 and 11, are currently being held “in long-term storage in the United States pending final decision on their disposition,” the defense official said.

The Senate’s version of the FY21 NDAA, which is still working its way through Congress, contains additional language that would allow the Air Force to accept, operate or even modify the first six Turkish F-35s.

 

Huelague

Experienced member
Messages
3,687
Reactions
4 3,929
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
„The Turkish F-16s have been upgraded to the latest Viper variants, with the fighter integrating the advanced capabilities that help it to interoperate with fifth-generation F-35s, a deal that never came to fruition for President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.“

 

BordoEnes

Committed member
Messages
291
Reactions
2 867
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Turkey
„The Turkish F-16s have been upgraded to the latest Viper variants, with the fighter integrating the advanced capabilities that help it to interoperate with fifth-generation F-35s, a deal that never came to fruition for President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.“


The entire article is utter trash. So many errors that it hurts to read lmao.
 

Reviewbrah

Contributor
Messages
536
Reactions
2,351
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
I really think we should knocking at BAE and Leonardos door to participate in Tempest. UK and Italy have always been very cooperative.


MMU program is a win-win deal for BAE Systems and UK. They get to preserve their engineers until Tempest program etc. enter a next stage. They get to test subsystem for the next generation aircraft(s) and BAE Systems will have the rights to market the MMU which they can use to enter new markets who would want to replace their aged aircraft in the 2030-40s. SSB has also said that Turkey could manufacture parts for the Tempest program.

UK has been also trying to pitch Eurofighter sale to Turkey.
 

what

Experienced member
Moderator
Messages
2,083
Reactions
9 6,177
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
SSB has also said that Turkey could manufacture parts for the Tempest program.

UK has been also trying to pitch Eurofighter sale to Turkey.

Would be great if we could join or even develop parts for Tempest. But Tempest is going to be 6th generation (whatever that is) and it would be wise to join one program. We need to keep an edge on the neighbours. MMU will only be 4.5th generation afaik. No expert, just my amateur opinion.
 
A

adenl

Guest
Would be great if we could join or even develop parts for Tempest. But Tempest is going to be 6th generation (whatever that is) and it would be wise to join one program. We need to keep an edge on the neighbours. MMU will only be 4.5th generation afaik. No expert, just my amateur opinion.
Even the IOC TF will be better than any other 4.5 gen fighter. It will only lack '5th gen' engines that won't make it able to supercruise. The FOC TF will have indigenous engines which will make it a fully fledged 5th gen and compared to the original F-22 it will be better. One can expect a 5.5 gen TF from 2035 onwards, because developments and improvements won't stop at the production phase.

The TF stats and specs are quite similar to the Su-27 ones. Weight wise, size wise, wing area wise and thrust wise they are very similar. One can say the TF will have Flanker flight performance with all the benefits of advanced stealth, electronics and avionics.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Cabatli_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
5,369
Reactions
80 45,486
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Would be great if we could join or even develop parts for Tempest. But Tempest is going to be 6th generation (whatever that is) and it would be wise to join one program. We need to keep an edge on the neighbours. MMU will only be 4.5th generation afaik. No expert, just my amateur opinion.

Hostile countries make miscalculations about the TF-X project at present. They believe that the project is stillborn and that the Turks will never be able to develop such a plane. Therefore, this project is not taken seriously at the moment, but their false perception will be totally changed at the day it makes its first flight. When that time comes, you will be able to read the most desperate comments of these people who are concerned about their hostility against Turks, with purple faces on the forum pages.
 

TR_123456

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
4,869
Reactions
11,995
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Turkey
Hostile countries make miscalculations about the TF-X project at present. They believe that the project is stillborn and that the Turks will never be able to develop such a plane. Therefore, this project is not taken seriously at the moment, but their false perception will be totally changed at the day it makes its first flight. When that time comes, you will be able to read the most desperate comments of these people who are concerned about their hostility against Turks, with purple faces on the forum pages.
Isnt that what always happens bro?
Eventually,they will learn to take us serious.;););)
 
A

adenl

Guest
I can foresee Turkey being allowed to join the Tempest project if the relations with the UK and Italy stays good and with Turkey having proven its worth by rolling out the TF in 2023. 150 TF produced for TAF until 2040 with the Tempest being the follow on. Expect another 150 minimum TF exported to other countries. Time will tell.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Cabatli_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
5,369
Reactions
80 45,486
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
TF-X represents the name of the Turkish future warfare supported by augmented lethality with support of artificial Intelligence and neural networks in fully digital cockpit. This concept will make TurAF to perform very advanced network centric strikes (manned/unmanned/jammer combination) against advanced enemies. For example, In addition to long range communication and data-link systems, Tf-X will have an unique close range data transfer and communication sensors among other Tf-X fighters locating in same flight formations. This system will be used not to be detected by enemy sensors via radio signals. In addition, The Integrated systems like BURFIS (Bütünleşik Rf sistemi (Radar+EW)), BEOS(Bütünleşik Elektro Optik Sistemler), BUIT (Bütünleşik İşlemci Ünitesi), IRST will be the most advanced systems/sensors that Aselsan/Tubitak has ever developed. This aircraft is designed to perform highly advanced network-centric strikes alongside MIUS Block-2/3 and Supersonic drones, so the Tf-X's electrical power requirements will be huge compared to 4th generation fighter aircraft as it powers these integrated sensors and Advanced fusion center that processes data collected from various manned/unmanned units and/or its own sensors.
 

Saithan

Experienced member
Denmark Correspondent
Messages
8,334
Reactions
26 19,128
Nation of residence
Denmark
Nation of origin
Turkey

Spain analysing TB2 and the success of Turkey. Also that because of these Successes and the Purchase of S400, Turkey needs a 5th gen plane. US won't sell F35 to Greece fearing that this would prompt Turkey to go for Russian plane.
 

Bogeyman 

Experienced member
Professional
Messages
8,952
Reactions
64 30,743
Website
twitter.com
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey

Statement by U.S. Ambassador to Greece Geoffrey R. Pyatt on F-35 Acquisition​


The United States, at the highest levels, has welcomed Greece’s interest in acquiring the F-35 for the Hellenic Air Force. We have signaled our support for procurement and are working closely together on a future acquisition program, which would enhance Greece’s defense capabilities, ensure interoperability with U.S. Armed Forces and improve regional stability. All reports to the contrary are false and misrepresentations of U.S. policy.

The U.S.-Greece defense relationship is at an all-time high and is one of America’s strongest military relationships in Europe. We take great pride in our defense and security partnership with Greece and work daily to advance that from strength to strength, including through Greece’s future acquisition of the F-35. The path to acquisition of the F-35 is a multi-year process that would naturally build upon the successes realized in Greece’s F-16 Viper upgrade program.

The USA has announced that it will not sell F-35 fighter jets to Greece. First, they say, finish the F-16 Viper modernization you have.
 

CAN_TR

Contributor
Messages
1,439
Reactions
15 5,037
Nation of residence
Austria
Nation of origin
Turkey
USA/Lockheed trying to squeez out the last drop of them. F-16 upgrade, MMCS frigate and now F-35.
 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom