TR Foreign Policy & Geopolitics

Anastasius

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From an economical and logistical perspective, an India-Middle-East-Europe route is probably the worst proposition among the 3 available ones. As @TheInsider mentioned, the existing route through Suez is basically the superior one compared to the alternatives but even then a route trying to go around Turkey is going to jack up expenses and logistical difficulties to such a level that I guarantee you it won't be worth it in the end. @Nilgiri is correct that Turkish economy is not exactly in the strongest place to put forward its own suggestions but that's not the factor that I suspect will cripple this India-Middle-East-Europe proposition - it will be crippled by the fact that better alternatives exist for all parties involved. You can't really skip Turkey if you want the most expedient route that doesn't involve Egypt.
 
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Sanchez

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Portuguese could opt to use the land route as usual, but they decided to go around Africa instead, which changed the world. This is a macro matter.

One gotta add, biggest loser of this corridor is Egypt as it completely bypasses Suez cannal. Which is good for us as it would be easier to pull them to an agreement.
 

Anastasius

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Portuguese could opt to use the land route as usual, but they decided to go around Africa instead, which changed the world. This is a macro matter.

One gotta add, biggest loser of this corridor is Egypt as it completely bypasses Suez cannal. Which is good for us as it would be easier to pull them to an agreement.
Portuguese drive to search for an alternate route was driven by a desire to reduce expenses as the middle-men involved in the land route were taking too much. This is different to the principles at play here.
 

Sanchez

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Portuguese drive to search for an alternate route was driven by a desire to reduce expenses as the middle-men involved in the land route were taking too much. This is different to the principles at play here.
Of course. And this Indian led, American sponsored corridor is designed to cut China as a hub in the future and break the BRI.
 

Tornadoss

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India-Middle East-EU corridor project is dead before arrival. Too many load unload operations and transport vehicle changes.

India-UAE ship
UAE-Saudi Arabia-Jordan-Israel train/truck
Israel-Greece ship (Both Haifa and Pireus ports are owned by China)
Greece-Europe train/truck

Turkiye offers
India-Iraq ship
Iraq-Turkiye-EU train/truck.
Turkish route is shorter with fewer load-unload operations and transport vehicle changes.

Old route
India-Egypt-EU ship. (IMHO still the best route but the Suez canal probably can't deal with the increased traffic)
The issue with Iraq, it's volatile, and not a reliable route. People doing business would also consider the reliability of the route in addition to the economics.
 

TheInsider

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The issue with Iraq, it's volatile, and not a reliable route. People doing business would also consider the reliability of the route in addition to the economics.
Other altenative is not feasible. Your goods can't compete if the transportation price is not competitive.
 

Nilgiri

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Guys I have moved most of the later replies to the IMEC thread now. Anything IMEC related, best to continue conversation there. Thanks.

 
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Rooxbar

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Every time Westerners talk about how the Chinese cannot "innovate", I have to conclude that they think the Chinese as a "race" have physiological hurdles stopping them from doing this, because otherwise I cannot wrap my head around how they might think this applies when there's no material basis that would stop them from doing so.

Now you'd think this to be a very imbecilic attitude from the lowest rungs of western society, but as I have gleaned time and again from reading historical texts regarding specific dominating zeitgeists, idiotic temporal ideological blind spots and biases have almost a universal radiation in the populations of different cultures and these biases tend to influence policy in a somewhat surreptitious manner in the decisions of unsuspecting rational actors.
Lmao just as I say that, I see this:


Obviously what I meant is not this explicit but a cognitive bias forming on the basis of stereotyping and a lack of historical education among Western individuals, but this is such delusional grandstanding by a Ukrainian, a country firmly in the east in terms of general attitude and culture; although similar to any other geographical region with contacts to North, West and Central Europe they got their share of exposure to the Wissenschaftliche Geist (I have to use the German phrase, since the anglophone concept of "Science" has been dragged to dirt by retarded American techbro STEM one-dimensional view of the world. Wissenschaftliche Geist, a knowledge-based culture if you will, includes the musings and findings of scholarly Antrhopologist, Archaeologist, Arabist, Sinologist, Socliologist and Philosopher just as much as Physicists and Biologists), but just like how American neo-Nazis as the runt of Western society try to claim "West" for themselves, this is a pathetic attempt by a retarded person to do the same. I would only accept such an analysis coming from true intellectuals from Germany, England talking about the differences between theirs and our top 0.001%, which would be correct analysis.

Ukrainian Intellectual heritage is clear from how they got duped into the path of nationalist v nationalist spiral downward by letting themselves into a nationalist frenzy through U.S. funding and training for their neo-Nazis, blocking EU mediation and poking the bear by irrational actions, such as stationing the Azov battalion in Mariupol of all places, hasty explicit anti-Russian stances which found their parallels symbolically in banning Russian Language, and burning Tolstoy books which are unnecessarily dumb actions fanning the flames of nationalism on both sides, instead of the rational path of placating Russia by actually trying to shrewdly implement Minsk Agreement selectively. Now they got a ruined country with debt for generations to come; such rational decisions, much strategy. Wow. Get the fuck out of here.
 
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Ryder

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Lmao just as I say that, I see this:


Obviously what I meant is not this explicit but a cognitive bias forming on the basis of stereotyping and a lack of historical education among Western individuals, but this is such delusional grandstanding by a Ukrainian, a country firmly in the east in terms of general attitude and culture; although just like any other geographical region with contacts to North, West and Central Europe they got their share of exposure to the Wissenschaftliche Geist (I have to use the German phrase, since the anglophone concept of "Science" has been dragged to dirt by retarded American techbro STEM one-dimensional view of the world. Wissenschaftliche Geist, a knowledge-based culture if you will, includes the musings and findings of scholarly Antrhopologist, Archaeologist, Arabist, Sinologist, Socliologist and Philosopher just as much as Physicists and Biologists), but just like how American neo-Nazis as the runt of Western society try to claim "West" for themselves, this is a pathetic attempt by a retarded person to do the same. I would only accept such an analysis coming from true intellectuals from Germany, England talking about the differences between theirs and our top 0.001%, which would be correct analysis.

Ukrainian Intellectual heritage is clear from how they got duped into the path of nationalist v nationalist spiral downward by letting themselves into a nationalist frenzy through U.S. funding and training for their neo-Nazis, blocking EU mediation and poking the bear by irrational actions, such as stationing the Azov battalion in Mariupol of all places, hasty explicit anti-Russian stances which found their parallels symbolically in banning Russian Language, and burning Tolstoy books which are unnecessarily dumb actions fanning the flames of nationalism on both sides, instead of the rational path of placating Russia by actually trying to shrewdly implement Minsk Agreement selectively. Now they got a ruined country with debt for generations to come; such rational decisions, much strategy. Wow. Get the fuck out of here.

Who the hell do these Ukrainians think they are.

We dont owe them anything. Neither do they owe us anything.

Sick and tired of their entitlement bullshit.
 

B_A

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Every time Westerners talk about how the Chinese cannot "innovate", I have to conclude that they think the Chinese as a "race" have physiological hurdles stopping them from doing this, because otherwise I cannot wrap my head around how they might think this applies when there's no material basis that would stop them from doing so.

Now you'd think this to be a very imbecilic attitude from the lowest rungs of western society, but as I have gleaned time and again from reading historical texts regarding specific dominating zeitgeists, idiotic temporal ideological blind spots and biases have almost a universal radiation in the populations of different cultures and these biases tend to influence policy in a somewhat surreptitious manner in the decisions of unsuspecting rational actors.
Chinese weak at "innovate",(i said weak ,not cannot)

Dont because Chinese as a "race" have physiological hurdles stopping them from doing this

Just because their culture choose another path to living in the world.

Their culture prefer obedience, discipline and quantity.Every chinese children taught about obedience and discipline in their schools and family.Students mostly dont be allowed to write anything besides their textbooks

This is their advantage. While they have advantages, they also have shortcomings.

But If a Chinese children grow up in western he will much like western in mind ,rather than Chinese.You can see many Chinese nobel prize grew up and study in western,not in China.

We Turks also have our advantages and shortcomings.For example we are better at fighting wars than running financial businesses.

For course,many Chinese good at innovate and Many Turk good at financial businesses.But we are talking about the most of the people

Maybe off-topic,i stop here.
 
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Rooxbar

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That is shared among all societies with a low base quality of education. LatAm, CentAm & Caribbean, Africa, South Asia, East Europe, MidEast and some other pockets.

More interesting is "was that unearthed and propagated by the French media first?" Because European Liberals are trying to drive this narrative that Right-wing ultranationalist conspiratorial crazy politics is being funded and supported by Russia to destabilize EU, a claim with a kernel of truth to it. They might be starting to do the same for Turkey now.
 
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Nilgiri

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Moved the semicondutor geopolitics chat to a better thread for it, one that @Bogeyman has diligently been updating a long while now:


Folks, please keep this thread strictly for Turkish foreign policy + geopolitics related matters only. Thanks.
 

Baryshx

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That is shared among all societies with a low base quality of education. LatAm, CentAm & Caribbean, Africa, South Asia, East Europe, MidEast and some other pockets.

More interesting is "was that unearthed and propagated by the French media first?" Because European Liberals are trying to drive this narrative that Right-wing ultranationalist conspiratorial crazy politics is being funded and supported by Russia to destabilize EU, a claim with a kernel of truth to it. They might be starting to do the same for Turkey now.
They don't want to admit that it is the US that is trying to destabilize the EU.
 

B_A

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That is shared among all societies with a low base quality of education. LatAm, CentAm & Caribbean, Africa, South Asia, East Europe, MidEast and some other pockets.

More interesting is "was that unearthed and propagated by the French media first?" Because European Liberals are trying to drive this narrative that Right-wing ultranationalist conspiratorial crazy politics is being funded and supported by Russia to destabilize EU, a claim with a kernel of truth to it. They might be starting to do the same for Turkey now.
Dont forget the American red states....
 

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